RE: Your Opinions??

RE: Your Opinions??

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RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/9/2009 7:30:23 PM

jimhalupka

Posts: 496
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

any uncoordinated fool can unravel a roll cast, but spinning it wallis actually takes some time and practice to master.

you're gonna hear that there is no room for pins in Erie... that 13 ft rods are overkill (they are, I pin with an 8' 6''). The 'pin haters' jump the gun and label every pinner with disdain without even knowing their degree of etiquette, it's rather pathetic.

_____________________________

"Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets downstream, mend and wait out each fly swing, over and over again, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates the angler to the role, not of nemesis as it should be, but of butler."

-Art Lee

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 31

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/9/2009 8:36:19 PM

Carphead

Posts: 274
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

_____________________________

".......because flyfishermen are the highest ranking authority on the creeks."----Swinger 9/15/2009

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 32

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/9/2009 9:06:37 PM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

(in reply to Carphead)

Post #: 33

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/10/2009 1:51:05 PM

Carphead

Posts: 274
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

I asked for examples to back up your statement, so yeah.........um I guess that makes me a punk. Try not to get so riled up when somebody questions you.

The three examples you gave are poor, but you didn't back them up with any pertinent information to base them on.

To put this very simply, every one of those examples can be fished with a pin easily and can result in just as many hookups as with a fly rod. Not every piece of water can be fished the same way. You don't just throw a float and some shot on the line, and think you have the right setup. Success in those situations depends on the persons ability with their chosen method obviously.

Now, for my smartass punk remark....got some more examples off the top of your head?

< Message edited by Carphead -- 10/10/2009 2:08:50 PM >

_____________________________

".......because flyfishermen are the highest ranking authority on the creeks."----Swinger 9/15/2009

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 34

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/10/2009 3:35:47 PM

norm289

Posts: 395
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Homer City, PA
Status: online

Have a question. First of all I can admit I know nothing about pinning other than what I have read and the few times I have seen it in action. From what I see, it is just float fishing with a setup that can give you an amazing long drift. It also seems that all you can do with it is just drift a float. Am I kinda correct? Not trying to be a smartass! Just curious. If this is the case, it seems a little one dimensional and I would rather stick to the flyrod and all the versatility it gives me. Again not trying to be a smartass and start an arguement, just would like to know.

(in reply to Carphead)

Post #: 35

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/10/2009 5:11:23 PM

jimhalupka

Posts: 496
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

yes... you need a float and a tapered (most of the time) shot pattern which lets the offering be presented to the fish before the float. This weight also helps propel the cast, for siglon is not fly line... This is where trotting comes into play. By braking the spool, you are in control of the speed of the drift and it's place in the water column. There is more science involved than what you think. There has been times where the pin outfished the fly rod while nymphing, and vice versa.

Next hard rain we get, I'll let you make a few drifts and I'll do some swings with your switch.

_____________________________

"Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets downstream, mend and wait out each fly swing, over and over again, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates the angler to the role, not of nemesis as it should be, but of butler."

-Art Lee

(in reply to norm289)

Post #: 36

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/10/2009 6:34:43 PM

norm289

Posts: 395
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Homer City, PA
Status: online

Good deal, thanks Jim! I know there is skill involved with the casting, but what I am trying to figure out is how versatile it is.

(in reply to jimhalupka)

Post #: 37

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/10/2009 7:28:45 PM

davef

Posts: 1699
Joined: 11/14/2000
From: somerset
Status: online

I often remove my float and twitch a jig or clouser type fly made of long white marabou. I fish it like i do with the fly rod. Other than forgetting i have to keep my finger on the spool to keep from freespooling line it works fine on the c.p.

(in reply to norm289)

Post #: 38

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 1:01:23 AM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

I asked for examples to back up your statement, so yeah.........um I guess that makes me a punk. Try not to get so riled up when somebody questions you.

The three examples you gave are poor, but you didn't back them up with any pertinent information to base them on.

To put this very simply, every one of those examples can be fished with a pin easily and can result in just as many hookups as with a fly rod. Not every piece of water can be fished the same way. You don't just throw a float and some shot on the line, and think you have the right setup. Success in those situations depends on the persons ability with their chosen method obviously.

Now, for my smartass punk remark....got some more examples off the top of your head?

to quote a friend of mine, regarding everything you said there (at least the half i read)

"NOPE, WRONG"

(in reply to Carphead)

Post #: 39

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 9:00:47 AM

ShutUpNFish

Posts: 2232
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

#1 - I can generally always find flow...and you're right, if there were none it would be real tough without a drift. BUT, where ther is "no" flow which is rare...you will not find me.

#2 - I can generally always find a place to fish and have enough room if I really felt I wanted to use my pin. I certainly do not swing or flale my rod around as to hit other people in the face...lol

#3 - I typically don't fish these areas you mention.

The are a couple of factors that I feel the centerpin is a cool way to fish(still unmatched in fish catching ability if done properly). First, the fight! Unless you have experienced fighting a fish on this set up, you cannot properly appreciate the rush. Second, the control of the drift, hence trotting...controlling/slowing down your presentation especially when it reaches where you know the sweet spot is. Third, immediate hook set when drifted properly with little to NO slack in your line even from afar. Finally, for me this is one of the most popular ways of fishing of my ancestry....fishing for big browns in Slovenia or huge carp on the Sava River in Croatia....centerpinning is the method of choice by far on moving water...and those folk's least concern is the hatch, how they look or what they look like...their main concern is catching fish...the more the merrier!

< Message edited by ShutUpNFish -- 10/12/2009 9:21:28 AM >

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 40

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 9:12:46 AM

Carphead

Posts: 274
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

I asked for examples to back up your statement, so yeah.........um I guess that makes me a punk. Try not to get so riled up when somebody questions you.

The three examples you gave are poor, but you didn't back them up with any pertinent information to base them on.

To put this very simply, every one of those examples can be fished with a pin easily and can result in just as many hookups as with a fly rod. Not every piece of water can be fished the same way. You don't just throw a float and some shot on the line, and think you have the right setup. Success in those situations depends on the persons ability with their chosen method obviously.

Now, for my smartass punk remark....got some more examples off the top of your head?

to quote a friend of mine, regarding everything you said there (at least the half i read)

"NOPE, WRONG"

If you only made it through 3-4 sentences in a 8 sentence post, you probably have ADD. Might want to talk to a Doc about that.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But you still didn't give me any more examples.

< Message edited by Carphead -- 10/12/2009 9:37:54 AM >

_____________________________

".......because flyfishermen are the highest ranking authority on the creeks."----Swinger 9/15/2009

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 41

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 9:19:38 AM

Carphead

Posts: 274
Joined: 3/17/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

#1 - I can generally always find flow...and you're right, if there were none it would be real tough without a drift.

#2 - I can generally always find a place to fish and have enough room if I really felt I wanted to use my pin.

#3 - I don't fish these areas you mention typically.

Stillwater isn't hard to fish. Obviously you need to downsize because the fish will have more time to inspect your offering.

Look at it as just fishing a tiny lake. If you can do that, you can catch lots of fish in stillwater. Sure, fishing with a pin where there is flow lets you use a pin to its full potential, but if you adapt stillwater is just as easy.

Not saying you don't Paul, but some of us like to use a pin just because. Not just for the fact that its free-spooling in flows.

_____________________________

".......because flyfishermen are the highest ranking authority on the creeks."----Swinger 9/15/2009

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 42

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 9:25:16 AM

ShutUpNFish

Posts: 2232
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

#1 - I can generally always find flow...and you're right, if there were none it would be real tough without a drift.

#2 - I can generally always find a place to fish and have enough room if I really felt I wanted to use my pin.

#3 - I don't fish these areas you mention typically.

Stillwater isn't hard to fish. Obviously you need to downsize because the fish will have more time to inspect your offering.

Look at it as just fishing a tiny lake. If you can do that, you can catch lots of fish in stillwater. Sure, fishing with a pin where there is flow lets you use a pin to its full potential, but if you adapt stillwater is just as easy.

Not saying you don't Paul, but some of us like to use a pin just because. Not just for the fact that its free-spooling in flows.

Totally agree Carpy....just a personal preference to fish flow with the pin, seems more applicable to me. I have only been pinning for a year and I'm still learning....however, fighting a running fish on the pin is certainly addicting!

(in reply to Carphead)

Post #: 43

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 9:45:59 AM

vinestbrew

Posts: 399
Joined: 11/8/2006
From: Pittsburgh
Status: offline

Beleive it or not Sat. evening I found a pod of steelhead taking dries off the top. I would imagine thats an advantage of the fly over pinning. With that said I think I found my 1st pin setup. A raven eclipse on a loomis 1562. I know I'm all over the place.

_____________________________

DON"T DRINK THE WATER FISH HAVE SEX IN IT

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 44

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 11:06:05 AM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

#1 - I can generally always find flow...and you're right, if there were none it would be real tough without a drift. BUT, where ther is "no" flow which is rare...you will not find me.

#2 - I can generally always find a place to fish and have enough room if I really felt I wanted to use my pin. I certainly do not swing or flale my rod around as to hit other people in the face...lol

#3 - I typically don't fish these areas you mention.

i don't care if you can always find flow. he asked to name a situation that exists in erie where a fly rod excels over a pin.

i don't care if you can generally always find enough room. again, he asked me to name a situation that occurs in erie where a fly rod is better. i don't care what either of you say, some of the lower reaches of elk on a weekend in october are too crowded to pin.

and i don't care if you typically don't fish these areas. if anyone think a pin beats a fly rod on the upper reaches of elk, particularly in the mid spring when there is no flow combined with tight quarters, i challenge you to a fishing contest.

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 45

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 11:10:25 AM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But you still didn't give me any more examples.

i don't need to give you any more examples because those are more than enough. as i said to shutup, i don't care if you use the pin successfully in a certain situation. ie still water, crowded conditions, etc, the fly rod is the better tool for the job in those situations.
yes, the pin does have its moments, but there ARE times when it's not the best tool.

(in reply to Carphead)

Post #: 46

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 11:22:58 AM

ShutUpNFish

Posts: 2232
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: Carphead

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

maybe. i can think of a lot of conditions where a fly rod is better than a pin.

Really? Name a lot, or even some.

you're a little punk aren't you?

1) no flow
2) crowded conditions
3) small, tight mid to upper reaches of some streams/ all of some streams

there's 3 off the top of my head. and no, you're smart remark answer is not correct.

#1 - I can generally always find flow...and you're right, if there were none it would be real tough without a drift. BUT, where ther is "no" flow which is rare...you will not find me.

#2 - I can generally always find a place to fish and have enough room if I really felt I wanted to use my pin. I certainly do not swing or flale my rod around as to hit other people in the face...lol

#3 - I typically don't fish these areas you mention.

i don't care if you can always find flow. he asked to name a situation that exists in erie where a fly rod excels over a pin.

i don't care if you can generally always find enough room. again, he asked me to name a situation that occurs in erie where a fly rod is better. i don't care what either of you say, some of the lower reaches of elk on a weekend in october are too crowded to pin.

and i don't care if you typically don't fish these areas. if anyone think a pin beats a fly rod on the upper reaches of elk, particularly in the mid spring when there is no flow combined with tight quarters, i challenge you to a fishing contest.

LOL...I don't care wht you say either, but over any extended period of time, the float fisher will ultimately catch way more fish(that includes a guy with a float rod and spinning reel)....back to what I originally was trying to say that "pinning was a more effective way of catching more fish in any significant amount of numbers" You brought in the whole specific "conditions" factor. I don't care what the conditions are, over any extended period time, a good float fisherman will catch more fish than a good fly fisher bottom line. Was just trying to be nice about it, for you more sensitive types, the first time around.

Oh yeah, and I'm not talking about the guy whos fishing with a fly rod, with a bobber, drifting eggs and roll casting everytime fishing just like a float fisherman would execept with a fly rod. Wait a minute....yes I am, I'm talking about him too!

< Message edited by ShutUpNFish -- 10/12/2009 11:28:24 AM >

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 47

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 11:33:30 AM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

LOL...I don't care wht you say either, but over any extended period of time, the float fisher will ultimately catch way more fish(that includes a guy with a float rod and spinning reel)....back to what I originally was trying to say that "pinning was a more effective way of catching more fish in any significant amount of numbers" You brought in the whole specific "conditions" factor. I don't care what the conditions are, over any extended period time, a good float fisherman will catch more fish than a good fly fisher bottom line. Was just trying to be nice about it, for you more sensitive types, the first time around.

Oh yeah, and I'm not talking about the guy whos fishing with a fly rod, with a bobber, drifting eggs and roll casting everytime fishing just like a float fisherman would execept with a fly rod. Wait a minute....yes I am, I'm talking about him too!

who brought up any topic about how many fish float and fly rods catch? you apparently have the innate need to declare to the world your love for the float rod and despise for the fly rod by announcing how many more fish you THINK you can catch over a fly rod...which is not true.

me and carp were talking about situations in erie where a fly rod is better than a float rod, then you started your rambling about numbers and what not. take it easy, champ.

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 48

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 11:39:56 AM

jimhalupka

Posts: 496
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

is it really fun keeping a finger on your spool while your float is motionless in still water?

I love pinning... but there comes a time when you say, this is just too easy, this thing is a terminator... maybe I should broaden my horizons and apply this effort in other respects, like fly fishing. Then, when the conditions are low, I'm not smacking fish with a few ounces of lead and a monstrous egg sack.

_____________________________

"Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets downstream, mend and wait out each fly swing, over and over again, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates the angler to the role, not of nemesis as it should be, but of butler."

-Art Lee

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 49

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 2:23:00 PM

Loomis

Posts: 1610
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Delmont, PA
Status: offline

here we go again...

The question is who honestly cares?

I have seen the fly outdo the pin, the pin outdo the fly, the spin outdo them all and vise-versa a hundred times over.

When it gets super crowded in low clear conditions, ill go with a spin rod...did it on Sunday for the first time in a long while and forgot how much fun it was to bang fish on the spin rod with jigs and sacks...it's def coming with me on every Erie trip from now on...

Only way I would even remotely consider getting a pin is if I was traveling to the Pacific NW and did not want to lug a heavy bait caster around to float fish....a pin in low flows is like a 000 wt in the Atlantic ocean....it just doesn't make sense.

_____________________________

http://www.laurelridgerods.com

"I am by no means the most logical and educated person about fly fishing, but I will share with you what I know"

(in reply to jimhalupka)

Post #: 50

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 3:28:59 PM

ShutUpNFish

Posts: 2232
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

"you apparently have the innate need to declare to the world your love for the float rod and despise for the fly rod by announcing how many more fish you THINK you can catch over a fly rod...which is not true."

You don't even know me duud....When you think you're up for a little challenge, feel free to send along a PM...Lets let actions speak louder than words my friend...nuff said

< Message edited by ShutUpNFish -- 10/12/2009 3:29:58 PM >

(in reply to Loomis)

Post #: 51

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 4:02:00 PM

jimhalupka

Posts: 496
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

maybe you two should just fist fight?

_____________________________

"Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets downstream, mend and wait out each fly swing, over and over again, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates the angler to the role, not of nemesis as it should be, but of butler."

-Art Lee

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 52

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 4:18:13 PM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

You don't even know me duud....When you think you're up for a little challenge, feel free to send along a PM...Lets let actions speak louder than words my friend...nuff said

haha i would smoke you. but i only like friendly competitions with friends, not big bad tough guy competition maniacs

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 53

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 5:47:56 PM

swinger

Posts: 797
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: jimhalupka

maybe you two should just fist fight?

or kiss

_____________________________

Quality over quantity

I am reality

I>U

(in reply to jimhalupka)

Post #: 54

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 7:12:15 PM

mxdad66

Posts: 481
Joined: 10/4/2006
Status: offline

Fishing the pin to me just makes me that much more diversified.I love to fly fish,and I love the pin,each have their own advantages and disadvantages.Guys who put floats on fly rods and spinning reels are basically doing the same as the pin,drifting bait or a fly.By using the pin i have learned to read the water better and fish it more effectively,which has put more fish on the end of my flyrods as well.Is it more effective than a fly rod? It really does not matter, as long as you enjoy what your doing.The experience of the angler makes the difference,not the rod&reel,even though there is always that guy who has no clue and will yank out fish constantly.Do what you do for the enjoyment of doing it,if someone doesnot like it oh well.I will continue to carry my pins and flyrods with me everytime i go fishing,and use whatever i feel like using,no matter how many people are around.

(in reply to swinger)

Post #: 55

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 7:43:07 PM

ShutUpNFish

Posts: 2232
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

You don't even know me duud....When you think you're up for a little challenge, feel free to send along a PM...Lets let actions speak louder than words my friend...nuff said

haha i would smoke you. but i only like friendly competitions with friends, not big bad tough guy competition maniacs

It would certainly be a friendly competition and you never know, we may make a friend along the way...saying you'd smoke me and doing it are two different things...I'm done talking about it here. And I'd never say I'd smoke you...only if given the chance would I have that opportunity.

Now, I'm going fishing...

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 56

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 7:54:37 PM

swinger

Posts: 797
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShutUpNFish

It would certainly be a friendly competition and you never know, we may make a friend along the way...saying you'd smoke me and doing it are two different things...I'm done talking about it here. And I'd never say I'd smoke you...only if given the chance would I have that opportunity.

Now, I'm going fishing...

I knew it!!! You guys are going to kiss.

_____________________________

Quality over quantity

I am reality

I>U

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 57

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 8:22:24 PM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

don't be making smart remarks to me on the pinner forum swinger. i am only allowed to do that to you.

(in reply to swinger)

Post #: 58

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 8:30:25 PM

swinger

Posts: 797
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: dru2112

I can't keep my feelings in any longer. I love you.

Wow dude. I'll try and let you down easy. Sorry guy I dont go that way, but I am honored.

_____________________________

Quality over quantity

I am reality

I>U

(in reply to dru2112)

Post #: 59

RE: Your Opinions?? - 10/12/2009 8:53:13 PM

dru2112

Posts: 1331
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: indiana, pa
Status: online

haha you sucker

(in reply to swinger)

Post #: 60