RE: Massive Fish kill

RE: Massive Fish kill

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RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/18/2009 4:11:36 PM

spoonchucker

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Heave to, you scurvey dogs

It is not just stream, and rivers that are at risk, but also underground water tables as well. Once damaged, it could take generations for them to recover ( if ever ). The question is. How much are you willing to sacrifice to have cheap gas? Or to increase state revenues, without raising taxes?

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Post #: 31

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/18/2009 8:42:49 PM

cappoletti

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Joined: 1/10/2004
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We should all stop using energy created via fossil fuels. Drive the demand down, hence the prices will fall, then profits. No profits = no mining or well drilling. Also maybe run real small econo cars not the big pickem up. Shower with cold water, cut your own wood for cookin and heat. Oh and shut that freakin computer off !!!

Well thought out dont ya think?

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Post #: 32

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/18/2009 9:21:41 PM

Stillhead

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^^^^ Looks well thought out, huh?

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Post #: 33

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/18/2009 9:47:34 PM

spoonchucker

Posts: 7884
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OR cappoletti,

We could use energy more intelligently, and efficiently. Make wiser use of whichever size vehicle we drive. Take a shower in 110 degree water, rather than 130 degree ( plus a little cold water to avoidscalding ). And yes, "shut off that freakin computer", when we're freakin asleep, or out fishin

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

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It's no wonder mankind is messed up. The Earth is bi-polar.

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

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Post #: 34

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 9:19:54 AM

cappoletti

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Joined: 1/10/2004
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I guess thats what I ment to say. You, by far, did a better job conveying the message. I just dont like whiners, the I cant you cant type people. Too much fanger pointin and not enough action.

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Post #: 35

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 10:45:12 AM

cappoletti

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Joined: 1/10/2004
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Oh and unless I missed something on the news reports, there were no conclusive results as to the cause of the fish kill.

Perhaps it could have been a so called PA sportsman poisioning the fish. Unfortunately that is not unheard of as of late.

Look around the guy next to you could be a dirtball. Finger pointers generally have something to hide.

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Post #: 36

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 12:13:55 PM

H20Wolf

Posts: 252
Joined: 11/7/2006
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http://www.fish.state.pa.us/newsreleases/2009/091809_Dunkard_Creek.pdf

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by H20Wolf -- 9/19/2009 12:15:41 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 12:16:31 PM

H20Wolf

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Water looks NASTY!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by H20Wolf -- 9/19/2009 12:17:02 PM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 2:05:04 PM

spoonchucker

Posts: 7884
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"Too much fanger pointin and not enough action."

The problem, is that the regulatory agencies, who's JOB is to point the finger, are hesitant to do so. Why that is, can be debated. BUt two things complicate the matter. One being the nature of Marcellus drilling, the second being that the composition of fracing solutions are protected. Companies are not requireed to tell ANYONE, even emergency medical personnel, what's in the solution. When investigating fish kills/contamination, these agencies tend to fall back to the easy ( too late to go after anyone there ) scapegoat of "mine drainage". Even though many of these areas never had a problem with mine drainage until the drilling began ( HMMMM ). I am not totally opposed to extracting this gas, and there may not be proof that drilling is responsible for this, or other contaminations. However, there is more than enough circumstantial evidence ( and some of these companies have very poor track records ) to slow down the growth of such operations. Particularlly on state forrests, until regulation, and environmental standards can catch up to this advancing technology.

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It's no wonder mankind is messed up. The Earth is bi-polar.

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

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Post #: 39

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 2:25:38 PM

cappoletti

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Water does look nasty, be valuable to see what the contaminants are and track down the culprits. Not all companies are irresponsible. Those that are responsible should pay dearly.

I heard they detected TDS concentrations of greater than 25,000 mg/l. That should not be too difficult run down. Of course that could also be a rumor, so I best wait for more facts.

Is there recent/ current nat gas drilling in the watershed? How about mining ops? Also my understanding of TDS is limited, but concentrations of under 500 mg/l are considered ok for drinking. Appreciate any real facts thanks.

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Post #: 40

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 8:02:16 PM

H20Wolf

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http://www.observer-reporter.com/OR/Story/09-19-More-fish

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Post #: 41

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/19/2009 10:24:32 PM

nymphus

Posts: 181
Joined: 1/19/2002
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McFishin,
Many WV anglers are conservationists. And hate what goes on down there
as much as I do. From my experience while there visiting relatives,
I can't help but notice all the logging trucks going past the house, one right
after the other most of the day. The relatives are so accustom to seeing them
that they don't even notice. Then to go up one of my favorite mountain brook trout stream and witness all the silt and tree tops that had been dumped into it, made me sick. If there was a truck there with a name of the company on it, I would have turned them in. But there were no names on any vehicles or heavy equipment.
WV is a very beautiful state with many nice people, I just don't like some of
what I have seen, and I didn't even mention the mountain top removal issues.

< Message edited by nymphus -- 9/19/2009 10:29:21 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/24/2009 8:38:21 PM

cappoletti

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/10/2004
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Havent seen nuttin on this since 9-18. One would think that something that devastating could be easier to detect. You guys hear or know anything factual? It is a shame as they said fish are still dying.

One thing I recently found out is that active mining companies make mandatory payments into state accounts used for abandoned mine reclamation and water treatment.

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Post #: 43

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/24/2009 10:34:51 PM

rsquared

Posts: 656
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Here ya go cappoletti: http://www.postgazette.com/pg/09267/1000640-455.stm

Just found it this evening

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Post #: 44

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/26/2009 11:45:19 PM

jiggerman41

Posts: 57
Joined: 7/17/2009
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in the O R they reported it as an algae bloom.big money wins again

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Post #: 45

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/27/2009 10:41:25 PM

aranbp

Posts: 313
Joined: 2/24/2006
From: The Burgh
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There got to be more to it than just a algae bloom. I think they are hinding somethig. I agree big money wins again.

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Post #: 46

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/28/2009 12:52:36 AM

matt_esox

Posts: 90
Joined: 5/11/2006
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Haha especially when they said this is common on the coast? Come on.

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Post #: 47

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/28/2009 10:43:37 AM

eyesandgillz

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Yes, they stated in the article in the Trib-Review that is was an algae bloom (some "gold" algae or something) that occurs in saltwater. They will still need to track down the casue of the high salinity levels that led to the algae bloom. I don't think we have heard the end of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prymnesium_parvum

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/landwater/water/environconcerns/hab/ga/

(in reply to matt_esox)

Post #: 48

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/28/2009 2:48:28 PM

Invicta

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here is the sunday's trib article about the algae bloom being responsible for the fish kill http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/outdoors/s_644987.html.

"While it appears that saline- and mineral-rich environments are conducive to the growth of the golden algae in Dunkard Creek, we aren't sure if the algae was introduced into the creek or if it just proliferated due to favorable conditions," said West Virginia DEP Secretary Randy Huffman. "It could have been transplanted in a number of ways, including waterfowl, water transport or even waders of fishermen who have fished in affected waters in other states."

i think i'm gonna go along with what the WV DEP secretary said. the algae probably was transported to the creek via birds and fishermans waders. if that was the case wouldnt we be seeing massive fish kills all over the country!

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Post #: 49

RE: Massive Fish kill - 9/28/2009 3:08:58 PM

norm289

Posts: 395
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Homer City, PA
Status: online

Why was there favorable conditions? Why was it such a saline and mineral rich environment?

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Post #: 50

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/2/2009 2:12:17 PM

Fishken

Posts: 62
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: freeport,pa
Status: offline

I think the ducks got tried of musky's nipping @ thier butts....flew off to find some golden algae,& a flock of geese.I think you know the rest..

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Post #: 51

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/13/2009 11:45:07 AM

olgerman

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Joined: 11/5/2007
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Latest release from the DEP points to Consol Energy as culprit!

Pa. points to mine discharge for Dunkard Creek fish kill
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
By Don Hopey, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Stream sampling done by the State Department of Environmental Protection shows discharges high in dissolved solids and salt from Consol Energy's Blacksville No. 2 mine are the "primary immediate source" of the massive, month-long fish kill on Dunkard Creek.

The DEP has asked Consol to provide information of the underground connections between its active Blacksville No. 2 mine in West Virginia and its inactive Blacksville No. 1 mine in Pennsylvania, and requested that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency revoke a deep well injection permit for coalbed methane waste water at the inactive mine.

The DEP said it has obtained information that the mine pool in the inactive mine is flowing into the mine pool in Blacksville No. 2. Consol has repeatedly denied that the wastewater from the inactive Blacksville No. 1 mine is flowing into the active Blacksville No. 2 mine.

Fish, freshwater mussels, salamanders and aquatic insects started dying on Sept. 1 in about 35 miles of the 38 mile creek that meanders along the Pennsylvania-West Virginia border.

The Pennsylvania DEP has also asked the West Virginia DEP, in a letter dated Oct. 2, to "take necessary enforcement measures" to control pollution discharges of total dissolved solids, chlorides and sulfides from the Blacksville No. 2 mine treatment facility.

That treatment facility stopped treating and pumping mine water into the creek as the fish kill progressed last month, but Pennsylvania DEP wants assurances that the earlier pollution loads will not resume when it becomes necessary for Consol to resume pumping water out of its active mine.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09286/1005162-113.stm#ixzz0TpaaakCj

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Post #: 52

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/14/2009 11:36:19 AM

ddubs3

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That can't be true. It has to be the evil gas companies!

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Post #: 53

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/14/2009 11:44:57 AM

RhnstnCowboy

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From: The Ohio State Reformatory
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When a huge corporation denies that they have done something wrong, they are almost always lying. Sometimes, however, they are so arrogant, corrupt, and careless that they really don't know. This is a case of the former and the latter being true:

Update:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09287/1005306-113.stm

< Message edited by RhnstnCowboy -- 10/14/2009 11:51:17 AM >

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Post #: 54

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/14/2009 12:28:07 PM

H20Wolf

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Investigate Dunkard Creek Fish Kill_*
MORGANTOWN, W.Va—The Joint Legislative Oversight Commission on State Water Resources will meet on Thursday, Oct. 15 to examine the 30-mile fish kill in Dunkard Creek. The meeting will take place at the State Capitol from 9-11 a.m. in Room 208-W, the Senate Judiciary Committee Room. It is open to the public.
“The frustrating thing is that folks in the Upper Monongahela River Association predicted that something like this would happen last year. Although our local delegates introduced a bill last session, HB 2960, intended to remedy what happened, sometimes it takes a disaster to get legislation passed,” said Delegate Barbara Evans Fleischauer.
The first report of a fish kill in Dunkard Creek, which criss-crosses the Mason-Dixon line, was recorded on Sept. 1, 2009. The kill has since affected at least 161 aquatic species.
“Some of the thousands of fish that were killed were huge,” said Fleischauer. “It is particularly sad that this occurred in a beautiful stream that local residents had banded together to restore, maintain and protect through their watershed association.”
There is not yet any official conclusion as to the factors which caused or contributed to the fish kill, but the presence of golden algae bloom, Prymnesium Parvum, which has not previously been identified in Mid-Atlantic waters, has been confirmed. Increased levels of total dissolved solids during the relevant time periods have also been recorded.
House Bill 2960 was introduced during the Regular 2009 Session. It was sponsored by Delegates from the Dunkard Creek area including Fleischauer, Marshall, Beach and Shook (all D-Monongalia) and Delegates Manypenny (D-Taylor) and Longstreth (D-Marion). It would have required the DEP to establish standards to control the levels of total dissolved solids in state waters.
In addition, the bill would require submission of data to the DEP regarding withdrawal of water for fracturing and other purposes, as well as treatment for discharge of fluids into state waters. The bill did not pass, but legislators plan to reintroduce it in the 2010 Regular Session.
The Joint Water Resources Committee is chaired by Delegate Tim Manchin (D-Marion) and Senator John Unger (D-Berkeley).
“I hope the interim meeting on Thursday will bring attention to the causes of this modern environmental disaster. I think it is important to look quickly into what other states have done in order to prevent this from spreading to other streams in our state,” said Manchin.

(in reply to RhnstnCowboy)

Post #: 55

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/14/2009 3:28:00 PM

H20Wolf

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http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/localnews/10-14-DEP-on-CNX-well#

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Post #: 56

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/16/2009 1:30:34 PM

spoonchucker

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"That can't be true. It has to be the evil gas companies!"

SAME "resonsible" company that is/will be doing much of the drilling.

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Post #: 57

RE: Massive Fish kill - 10/16/2009 5:15:18 PM

PeteM

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Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Bethel Park
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ddubs3

That can't be true. It has to be the evil gas companies!

CNX (Consol Energy) is a gas company.

In the past decade they are the ones that have developed the hydro fracturing and gas sequestration technology.

Once perfected, they started CNX Gas division at their R&D lab campus, then given the massive potential of the gas division, merged the coal and gas divisions to form CNX (Consol Energy).

The Venture that we see at this point is a joining of CNX, Halliburton, and several drilling companies that have the experience and equipment to execute the process.

So, yeah, it is a gas company. Just not one that people immediately recognize as one.

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 58

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