testing stream water

testing stream water

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testing stream water - 7/8/2009 6:36:15 AM

jimhalupka

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How would one go about testing ph and alkalinity in a stream?

Buying a kit and testing different areas while taking variables such as different locations, depth, and shade into consideration?

I'm truly clueless to this, and would like to give it a go on a feeder I've been peckering around on.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 9:06:20 AM

Inukshuk

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I used to carry a small dropper bottle of universal indicator, a small test tube and a pH color chart. I would usually sample surface water of relatively shallow streams. Not sure how accurate that method is, but could give you a general idea of how acidic a body of water is. There are digital pH meters, some are difficult to calibrate and not very accurate either. I'm sure there are test kits you can by that will do the job. I know homemade wine stores sell titration kits that would probably work.

< Message edited by Inukshuk -- 7/8/2009 9:07:57 AM >

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 9:10:57 AM

D-nymph

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PH kit, is all you need.

depth, shade/sun etc have no effect on PH.

Tribs to a creek will have an effect on ph until the water is dilluted downstream. 20' upstream of a trib may have a different PH than 20' downstream of the same trib.

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Post #: 3

RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 9:28:11 AM

DaFuNK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: D-nymph

PH kit, is all you need.

depth, shade/sun etc have no effect on PH.

Tribs to a creek will have an effect on ph until the water is dilluted downstream. 20' upstream of a trib may have a different PH than 20' downstream of the same trib.

actually, depth, shade/sun will have an effect on algaes and vegetation in said water - which will have an effect on PH..

so although it's not directly related, it IS indirectly related and should be kept in mind..

(in reply to D-nymph)

Post #: 4

RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 11:45:27 AM

mikeg

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I'm curious as to why some of you want to know?

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 11:54:25 AM

pxatim

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I was thinking the same thing... trying to stock your own little mountain stream???

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 12:05:50 PM

razmatazz05

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use one of the pool chemical strips. dip them in the water and the little pieces change colors...

i think pH, chlorine, and some others are on there...

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 12:08:23 PM

pxatim

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What about a home pregnancy kit...

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 1:00:19 PM

eyesandgillz

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A drops based pool test kit (Taylor makes decent ones) will give you better readings. You can pick up a Taylor kit at Wal mart in the early summer usually. If not, order it online or go to a local pool store but, you'll pay too much at any pool store. You can test for pH and alkalinity, plus many other things (certain metals), depending on how advanced of a kit you get. The test strips aren't the most accurate, especially when they get a little older.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 1:28:03 PM

npsinboro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesandgillz

A drops based pool test kit (Taylor makes decent ones) will give you better readings. You can pick up a Taylor kit at Wal mart in the early summer usually. If not, order it online or go to a local pool store but, you'll pay too much at any pool store. You can test for pH and alkalinity, plus many other things (certain metals), depending on how advanced of a kit you get. The test strips aren't the most accurate, especially when they get a little older.

Given the seasonality of pool stuff if you can't find it there the ones in the pet department for fish tanks would probably be right up your alley.

I have a larger "test kit" that gives you a lot of relevant readings like ph, nitrates, nitrites, etc.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 2:15:43 PM

KJH807

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 2:20:33 PM

Inukshuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeg

I'm curious as to why some of you want to know?

Out of curiosity. There are many regions in the Adirondacks that were void of life due to acid rain, I liked to test these various bodies of water in this area to see how close they were to losing the capacity to sustain fish and other types of aquatic organisms.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 5:37:19 PM

flyfisherman22

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nice save lol

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 5:52:16 PM

chrisrowboat

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Could aid in the pursuit of wild brook trout.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 6:30:49 PM

16506fish

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WhO KaRes

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 7:11:44 PM

jimhalupka

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thanks for the answers... even the the idiotic ones.

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-Art Lee

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Post #: 16

RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 7:13:36 PM

casts_by_fly

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If you just want to have a go and check it out, then pH paper is the easiest way. Small roll of paper, about the size of a roll of tippet. Dip it in the water and compare the color. They are accurate to +/- 0.5 units, which will be close enough to tell the health and general water quality of a stream. The pool and fish tank kits are fine and all, but for all the more accuracy you need then pH paper is an easier way to go. I would imagine that a pool store should sell it. If not then order it online.

Temperature is simple with a thermometer. No need to get fancy.

Temperature and pH will give you a very good idea of what is going on in the stream and both are simple to test. Alkalinity (different to pH) requires a drop based kit so far as I know. I haven't seen an alkalinity test kit on paper. And honestly, alkalinity isn't terribly important in the grand scheme of things. If the pH is high (7-9) then alkalinity doesn't matter at all as you're in the 'good' range. If the pH is below 7, then there is really no alkalinity anyway. Alkalinity is a good test for buffer quality, but that's really it.

As noted, pH won't vary with depth, unless there is a mixing problem in the stream such as very low flow, low gradient, and/or braids (and within a particular braid things would be the same). If there is a cold spring coming in, then there is a good chance that the pH will change with the depth change right at the inflow source, but not once you go downstream past the next riffle (temperature will tell you once it is all mixed). What DaFuNk said above is wrong when it comes to streams. Because these is constant mixing in a stream, algae and other vegetation which might have a very localized effect in a lake will not have any effect on a stream. Effectively, a stream is a series of lakes (pools) connected by some sets of mixers (riffles and rapids). If you dump a bag of dye at the head of a pool, by the end of the riffle of the next pool the dye will have mixed in almost uniformly. Streams are very good at evening out concentrations of everything in the stream. Since pH is just a concentration of H+ ions (or more accurately, H3O+ ions) the stream will even them out as it goes.

For as accurately as it matters in a stream, pH will not vary with temperature, depth, or shade. What will affect pH are inflows of ions or minerals, usually from another water source (though not always as some minerals will dissolve like limestone or many sulfates).

Thanks
Rick

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 10:19:18 PM

Inukshuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: casts_by_fly

Temperature and pH will give you a very good idea of what is going on in the stream and both are simple to test. Alkalinity (different to pH) requires a drop based kit so far as I know. I haven't seen an alkalinity test kit on paper. And honestly, alkalinity isn't terribly important in the grand scheme of things. If the pH is high (7-9) then alkalinity doesn't matter at all as you're in the 'good' range. If the pH is below 7, then there is really no alkalinity anyway. Alkalinity is a good test for buffer quality, but that's really it.

Alkalinity is the opposite of acidity. Anything with a pH of 7 -14 is considered alkaline, anything below seven is acidic. Streams and lakes tend to be acidic for various reasons, most organisms thrive in a slightly acidic conditions, around 6.8 is optimum I believe, anything below a pH of 5, aquatic life, particularly fish would have difficulty surviving. When I tested the small ponds in the Adirondacks, many had a pH below five and were void of life. Some of the streams were also below five, around 4.85 if I remember correctly but still had brook trout thriving in them. I am not sure why, but I would guess it was because of the riffle zones of these streams.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 10:42:34 PM

Mountian Man

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 16506fish

WhO KaRes

+1

uZ blU powRbates wit TrebleHuukS k

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RE: testing stream water - 7/8/2009 11:19:14 PM

spoonchucker

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i f tHe watEr/s oRng P iN it

tRus me K?

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RE: testing stream water - 7/9/2009 1:56:07 PM

casts_by_fly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Inukshuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: casts_by_fly

Temperature and pH will give you a very good idea of what is going on in the stream and both are simple to test. Alkalinity (different to pH) requires a drop based kit so far as I know. I haven't seen an alkalinity test kit on paper. And honestly, alkalinity isn't terribly important in the grand scheme of things. If the pH is high (7-9) then alkalinity doesn't matter at all as you're in the 'good' range. If the pH is below 7, then there is really no alkalinity anyway. Alkalinity is a good test for buffer quality, but that's really it.

Alkalinity is the opposite of acidity. Anything with a pH of 7 -14 is considered alkaline, anything below seven is acidic. Streams and lakes tend to be acidic for various reasons, most organisms thrive in a slightly acidic conditions, around 6.8 is optimum I believe, anything below a pH of 5, aquatic life, particularly fish would have difficulty surviving. When I tested the small ponds in the Adirondacks, many had a pH below five and were void of life. Some of the streams were also below five, around 4.85 if I remember correctly but still had brook trout thriving in them. I am not sure why, but I would guess it was because of the riffle zones of these streams.

Inukshuk,

No, you are referring to basicity. Acidity and basicity are opposite terms referring to where on the pH scale the water is, i.e. the measure of H3O+ and OH- concentrations. Alkalinity is the sum of all the bases in the solution, i.e. the sum of carbonates, hydroxides, borates, phosphates, and any other anionic species in solution. In the case of streams it is more or less equivalent to (positive) acid neutralizing capacity and in layman's terms means how much acid you can dump into the stream before the pH starts to drop. It is very closely related to buffering capacity also. You can have a very high alkalinity, but not quite so high pH, for instance if you have a very high loading of bicarbonate/carbonate (which will give a pH around 10-10.5) or a very high pH without (hardly) any alkalinity (a light solution of sodium hydroxide for instance at pH 13, but little buffering capacity).

Everything you said above is correct if you had said basicity, and yes a basic solution is considered alkaline. However alkalinity is a very specific thing as I explained above.

Thanks
Rick

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RE: testing stream water - 7/9/2009 3:51:02 PM

Inukshuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: casts_by_fly

Inukshuk,

No, you are referring to basicity. Acidity and basicity are opposite terms referring to where on the pH scale the water is, i.e. the measure of H3O+ and OH- concentrations. Alkalinity is the sum of all the bases in the solution, i.e. the sum of carbonates, hydroxides, borates, phosphates, and any other anionic species in solution. In the case of streams it is more or less equivalent to (positive) acid neutralizing capacity and in layman's terms means how much acid you can dump into the stream before the pH starts to drop. It is very closely related to buffering capacity also. You can have a very high alkalinity, but not quite so high pH, for instance if you have a very high loading of bicarbonate/carbonate (which will give a pH around 10-10.5) or a very high pH without (hardly) any alkalinity (a light solution of sodium hydroxide for instance at pH 13, but little buffering capacity).

Everything you said above is correct if you had said basicity, and yes a basic solution is considered alkaline. However alkalinity is a very specific thing as I explained above.

Thanks
Rick

You're right, I mixed up the two, when I read the original post I was thinking of the pH scale.

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RE: testing stream water - 7/9/2009 5:33:01 PM

casts_by_fly

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common happening. When most people hear alkalinity, they assume high pH and basicity. Most people don't know that alkalinity is anything different.

I should clarify my statement above about the importance of alkalinity. I meant that in this case it wouldn't be important for a recreational angler to measure it. It is however very important for the overall stream health. Alkalinity will keep the pH steady. A system with a good buffering capacity and high alkalinity will hold a relatively steady pH throughout the year. A limestone stream is a good example. The steady pH combined with the usually cooler temperature means easy growing conditions for plant and animal life. Compare that to a freestone brookie stream and the brookie stream will have high fluctuations in temp, and the pH can be impacated by acid rain or surface groundwater runoff a lot more because it has no buffering ability.

Thanks
rick

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