A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (Full Version)

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mikeg -> A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 9:35:14 AM)

 I understand the reasoning behind so many people getting upset about guides, but I'm not sure if it's a little too much! One guide from out of town made a lot of people upset in regards to etiquette and now it seems there are a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouths.

My father was a charter captain for 30 years, my brother is a charter captain, my uncle is one, and I guided for about 4-5 years. I have seen and heard about it all......

I have spent a lot of years fishing Tampa to Boca Grand and have fished next to TONS of guides, too!

So it's safe to say I have a little experiance with dealing with guides and I have had only ONE problem in all my years of fishing. Those years also include water shaired with guides in Erie!

So my point is this....

Don't let ONE group of clients with ONE guide get your reel in a backlash!
If this happends again in your lifetime, just pack it up and move! It's that easy!

And this goes for everybody not just guides. More often than not, it will be the regular "Joe" that causes most of the problems!

Too often we forget the real reasons why we are out there to begin with....To relax and have fun!

So next time you have a problem with another angler, whether it be a guide or regular "Joe", just move on to another spot! Hey you never know....You may find some better water and be thanking those anglers for pushing you out!

Trust me fellas', your blood pressure will thank you and you'll actually find your day more enjoyable!! 


So if you have a problem out on the water with somebody, just relax and remember.......HAVE FUN!!

-Mike



grshuntr -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 9:52:46 AM)

i understand midriver was at 20mile this morning with his group,  could not find a place to park, so they are there somewhere,  why don't you lake erie professional guides try to police your ranks and at least get him check for proper license,  of course he could just be here with 10 of his friends and not need one, then thats fine, however if you see his truck, you will know right away that he is a guide, its decorated more than an early run steelie in shallow water.



pxatim -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 10:01:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: grshuntr

i understand midriver was at 20mile this morning with his group,  could not find a place to park, so they are there somewhere,  why don't you lake erie professional guides try to police your ranks and at least get him check for proper license,  of course he could just be here with 10 of his friends and not need one, then thats fine, however if you see his truck, you will know right away that he is a guide, its decorated more than an early run steelie in shallow water.


take a breath.... re-read mike's post.....



grshuntr -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 10:04:29 AM)

birds of a feather



Mr.Slickfish -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 10:37:54 AM)

Instead of blaming the "guide", how 'bout if we hold the "guided" accountable. They were grown men, not children...right? They made a conscious decision to "hog" "your" water and parking right? Whether I'm on a guided tour or not, I won't fish in your pocket.
A) It's just disrespectful as a fisherman
B) I want my own space
C) My legs aint broke
D) Things are tough all over...I'm just sayin.



chrisrowboat -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 10:59:48 AM)






If you see a problem give the WCO a call

Waterways Conservation Officer Brook R. Tolbert
Western Erie County
PO Box 162
Fairview, PA 16415
Phone: (814)-566-7869
Email: WCO14@msn.com

and

Deputy Waterways Conservation Officer Randy Leighton
Western Erie County
Email: rglerie@msn.com

and

Waterways Conservation Officer Ed Stuart
Central Erie County
PO Box 9692
Erie, PA 16505
Phone: (814)-572-0066

and

Waterways Conservation Officer James M. Smolko
Eastern Erie & Western Warren Counties
PO Box 1026
Waterford, PA 16441
Phone: 814-572-0078
Email: Rangerg13@aol.com

and

PA Fish and Boat Commission, Bureau of Law Enforcement, Northwest Region Office
Phone: (814) 337-0444

and

Walnut Creek Marina
Phone: (814) 833-2464
 
 
 
 
Is there a new law impacting fishing guides and charter boat operators in Pennsylvania?
Yes. On November 30, 2004, Governor Rendell signed into law Act 159 of 2004 (House Bill 2155). A portion of this act addresses fishing guide and charter boat operations. It makes it mandatory for fishing guides and charter boat operators to become permitted in order to operate in Pennsylvania. It authorizes the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission to create regulations for the issuance of these permits.
To whom do these new regulations apply?
As defined in Act 159 of 2004, the following entities will be impacted:
  • "Charter boat” - A boat operated as a commercial enterprise that carries passengers for hire for the purpose of fishing on the waters of this Commonwealth.

  • "Fishing guide" - A person who operates a commercial enterprise whereby he guides or leads other persons for the purpose of fishing on the waters of this Commonwealth.

A "commercial enterprise" is defined as an operation where a person provides fishing guide or charter boat services in exchange for any consideration, including money, goods or services.
 
 
 
What’s the advantage for guides/charters and customers?
A comprehensive list of charters/guides is a good marketing tool. The Commission, tourist promotion agencies, local chambers of commerce and convention and visitor bureaus can use the list to direct potential clients to the appropriate businesses.
It’s also a way for the industry to do a little self-policing. Currently anybody can call themselves a fishing guide and solicit business in Pennsylvania. While most individuals and businesses in the Pennsylvania guide/charter business are outstanding, it only takes a few “bad apples” to ruin the bunch. While the basic industry standards the Commission envisions won’t by themselves guarantee customer satisfaction, potential clients do like knowing that they are contracting services from an industry with some level of oversight. Now that the regulations are in place and a guide offers fishing services in Pennsylvania, but doesn’t have a permit to do so, that business is breaking the law - a clear indication that its business practices are not “above board.”




Charter Boat Operators and Fishing Guides

INFORMATION SHEET






Application and Applicant -- A person desiring to be a charter boat operator or a fishing guide on the waters of this Commonwealth must first apply for a permit on the form provided by the Commission and submit the appropriate fee ($100 for residents; $400 for non-residents). Applicants must be 16 years of age or older.
Permit Duration -- Charter boat/fishing guide permits are valid for a calendar year and expire on December 31 of the year for which they were issued.
Permit Renewals -- A holder of a charter boat/fishing guide permit must apply to the Commission for renewal of the permit by completing the renewal application form provided by the Commission and by submitting it along with the appropriate fee to the Commission. Renewal notices will be mailed to current permit holders during the month of October or November of the preceding year.
Suspensions -- The Commission may suspend or revoke a charter boat/fishing guide permit for noncompliance with the terms and conditions of the applicable regulations or when the charter boat operator or fishing guide is convicted or acknowledges guilt of a violation of the laws or regulations.
Compliance with Laws -- Charter boat operators and fishing guides must comply with all federal, state and local laws and regulations. Charter boat operators and fishing guides are responsible for ensuring that their employees, passengers and customers comply with all fishing and boating laws and regulations.
Display of Permits & Decals
Permits -- While operating a charter boat or fishing guide operation, charter boat operators and fishing guides must display their permits on a hat or an outer garment in plain view. The charter boat operator and fishing guide may carry and display the permit in the same holder containing a fishing license. Charter boat operators and fishing guides must present their charter boat/fishing guide permits upon the request of an officer authorized to enforce the code. While onboard a boat displaying a decal, the charter boat operator is exempt from the permit display requirements of this section provided the permit is onboard the boat.
Decals -- When a boat is used in the charter boat/fishing guide operation, the charter boat operator must display a decal supplied by the Commission on both sides of the boat hull above the waterline and below the gunwale near the stern of the boat or on each side window of the ****pit of the boat. When, due to exigent circumstances, a charter boat operator must use a boat that does not display a charter boat/fishing guide decal, the charter boat operator must display the permit on a hat or outer garment as required by this section.



rollcaster -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 11:06:50 AM)





Seems like he only really made one person mad (grshuntr). I think this person might have a problem with letting things go.

Relax dude you might never see them again.





brian31969 -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 11:57:59 AM)

COUNTERPOINTING THE POINT:  You drive 3 hrs to get where you want to be, spend some serious cash,gas,food ect and start fishing, catch a few fish then some ****%&@$# crouds you out.  I dont think you will just move unless you need a change of scenery.  Cross there lines tangle them up show them that they have just F@$#%$# up. Make them move on to the next hole.  Oh yea and everytime you tangle them up say SORRY ABOUT THAT.

GET THE DRIFT



papinner -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 12:03:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian31969

COUNTERPOINTING THE POINT:  You drive 3 hrs to get where you want to be, spend some serious cash,gas,food ect and start fishing, catch a few fish then some ****%&@$# crouds you out.  I dont think you will just move unless you need a change of scenery.  Cross there lines tangle them up show them that they have just F@$#%$# up. Make them move on to the next hole.  Oh yea and everytime you tangle them up say SORRY ABOUT THAT.

GET THE DRIFT


Easier solution to the problem just take your glock with you put in a holester when they start to move in just pull your coat back and show the pistol I know a guy that used to do that on 20 mile and he was always left alone. Or just be like the 2 old timers this year on 20 mile and just go at it till the one of you cant move. lol



wishfishin -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 12:19:25 PM)

Mike,

I agree with your post 100 percent, and I'm not taking issue with what you wrote there (to the contrary, sounds like great advice to me).  That said, you've had far better luck with guides than I have.  I have found they vary widely in quality and professionalism.  The only guide I've fished with in Erie is Jim Jankovic, and frankly he is the best guide I've ever been privileged to fish with.  One of the things that makes him so is he is very conscious of stream etiquette.

I remember one guide on a fly-in lake in Quebec was apparently a convicted bank robber.  Said he did some time in prison; wrote a book about while he was in there.  At first, he said, it seemed like a tragedy.  Then is seemed like a comedy, so he rewrote it.  Then it didn't seem worth writing about at all, so he threw it all away.  Nowadays, he said, he laid low in the summers guiding out in the wilderness, and in the winters he went to some island in the Caribbean where he "worked" as a gigolo.  I took it all with a grain of salt, of course, but he was interesting.

And we did catch big fish--a 24 1/2 pound laker among them, right on the surface (it was just after ice out).  He couldn't wait to get back to the dock, proclaiming proudly, "I'm the number one guide today!"  Good memories.



mikeg -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 12:30:26 PM)

Wish,

Great story..lol
Did he wear a ski mask while fishing?



wishfishin -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 12:42:25 PM)

[image]http://daddyroblog.blogs.com/photos/trout/homecoming_06_146.jpg[/image]

No mask, but I was a little worried about the gun at his side!  ;-)

This was a twin of the fish I caught--mine was a 1/2 inch longer, 1/2 pound lighter--I think because this fish still had a 1 1/2 pound whitefish sticking out of his throat!  My buddy caught this one about a half hour before mine.



mikeg -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 12:52:54 PM)

BRUSIER!!!



PanfishSlayer -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 1:29:11 PM)

I'm really thinking about a charter in erie this year...anyone have any ideas as to who is good?



bluntman -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 3:25:17 PM)

"If you see a problem give the WCO a call "

You must have gotten really picked on in kindergarten to still be like that as an adult



chrisrowboat -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (2/28/2009 3:52:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluntman

"If you see a problem give the WCO a call "

You must have gotten really picked on in kindergarten to still be like that as an adult


No.
I was always a big boy.
You??



mdflyfishnut -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/4/2009 6:16:47 PM)

From the horse’s mouth: I am one of the Maryland anglers that there has been so much talk about. I would first like to apologize to anyone that we may have upset. It was not our intention to offend anyone during our fishing trip. My side of the story: 8 friends go to the Erie tribs to catch Steelhead, no one was guiding this trip, and we are all just friends on vacation. One of my friends just happens to be a guide here in MD, please do not blame him. We showed up on Wednesday after the long drive from DC. Our first stop was Elk creek at the flats. We walked down stream to the first big hole and there were about 8 guys fishing. We stopped to talk to a few anglers about the conditions. One angler talked to us for about 10 minutes and then offered his spot to one of our group as he was leaving. We took the opportunity and one of our group began fishing. As another angler left the hole he offered the spot to another one of the group. We then took turn with these two spots. One guy would catch a fish and another would step in. at no time did all 8 of us fish at the same time. We walked out around 5-6 pm with 4 fish. Thursday: we drove in early to the same hole at around 6am. No one was in the lot at the flats yet. All 8 of us began fishing the same large hole. We caught a few fish and then as the day progressed more and more people began fishing the same hole. When I and three of my friends left this hole to move down stream we counted 19 fisherman. It was time to move. 4 left and 4 stayed. We finally left the Elk at around 11:30. Seven out of 8 of us had legally caught and kept our limit of 3 fish a piece. We walked back to our vehicles and took some photos and then drove directly to Poor Richard’s to trade them in for some smoked fillets. We then ate lunch and decided to check out the legion hole. We all split up and began fishing where no one else was. The water had come up and began to become murky due to the snow melt. We left. We spent Friday playing cards and looking at some water but no one wet a line. Saturday we got up early again and drove east to check on the mile streams. We fished that morning with no success on 16 and 20. None of our group ran into anyone on the streams. Around noon we ran back to the flats and began fishing again. We caught a few but not many. Sunday: 4 of us fished in the early morning with little success due to the slush build up. We left around 11am and drove back to MD. We normally run into a lot of nice people on the stream, yeah a few guys crowded us at times on a few holes but that is what happens when you fish public waters and the fishing is good. We grin and bear it or we move on downstream. We took only our limit of fish on one day and we kept only the fish that we legally caught. To MR. grshuntr, I do apologize again if you thought we were intruding on your fishing territory. I will extend the olive branch. Feel free to e-mail me personally if you would like to discuss this further as adults. mdflyfishnut@live.com, I would also just like to tell everyone out there we did really well this time on the color yellow….



mdflyfishnut -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/4/2009 6:18:31 PM)

after i wrote the above post last night on the thread labeled mad iver
grshuntr wrote the following reply to me in my personal in box today.
the guy had no reason to be mad at us, he didn't even know who we were...what a joker.. i am posting his reply because he refuses to post a retraction.


"i'll buy that,  thanks for writhing,  to tell you the truth i never even fished there,  my buddy was up on wed when you first came in, he left, i got there thursday, saw your truck as decribed on wed, saw the hole which was filled by 7am with 18 guys,  and fished up stream, did not even go down,  then i went to the legion, i was leaving when the trucks pulled in,  i suppose it is all my fault for posting this,  it was just that it appeared that a guide had taken 8 clients to the same hole that was already crowded,  if it is any consolation, i have taken alot of flack on this,  so much in fact, other than the post i do tonight , can't do it today cause this computer is logged in as my son and i don't don how to change it,  it will probablly be my last post ever,  my butt hurts."




grshuntr -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/4/2009 6:47:02 PM)

guys, the foregoing is not true,  he has ask me to take back everything, i can't  ,  look at all the other post, number 16 from nutterone describes the situation on wed,  tunaman says they were still in the motel when he left and got there at 630,, these guys say they were there at 6,  i saw them roll into the legion and all go down to the same hole,  this is what we do know ,  from their own account,  1. there were 8 of them, 2. there was a guide with them,  was he guiding or just one of them, i don't care, and 3.  they took 25 fish out of the same hole,    now, i know they did nothing illegal, everyone has made that perfectly clear,   i have seen this behavior before,  mostly on the salmon river during the salmon run,  a group comes in and trys to take over a hole by intimadation,  that is what i think was going on, i am glad all the people from erie called their shop,  however, i don't think it was all due to my post,  i think more people saw the behavior and disapproved as did i



Mr.Slickfish -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/4/2009 6:52:18 PM)

wH/o Ka/R eS dUUd



pxatim -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/4/2009 7:45:22 PM)

let it go man..... let .. it.. go



350Z&Steelheads -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/5/2009 9:17:09 AM)

Do you mind if I use this one??

"Don't get your reel in a backlash!"


I like it!!



mikeg -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/5/2009 9:18:16 AM)

Sure...Send a check in the amount of $100.00 for copyright priviledge![:D]



Cold -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/5/2009 10:25:34 AM)

Great thread Mike, though I cant say I totally agree with this one:

quote:

So next time you have a problem with another angler, whether it be a guide or regular "Joe", just move on to another spot!


If you dont stand your ground at some point on the tribs, you'll come back at the end of the day having spent that day hiking while carrying a rod, not fishing.  I seriously believe some people purposely crowd others, just to see if they can push someone off of a good spot.  On a stream most other places in the state, I'll definitely just leave, but in Erie I have usually just stood my ground and continued fishing as normal.  If we get tangled, oh well.  Usually people that do this are not friendly, so I've actually made a few of them quite uncomfortable by striking up a conversation.  Either they get upset and move, or they turn out to be pretty okay people, and after talking a while, I can usually ask them to give me a little breathing room.

Still, you're bound to get a few real jerks, and its up to everyone to decide how to handle them.  I once had a guy come up across from me on a local stream and cross my line, first cast.  When I looked up at him, there was no apology, but rather a, "I was fishing here this morning."  So I pulled the tangled mess over and snipped both lines and tossed his end back into the water, smiled and said, "Sorry, it was really tangled bad." 

He left.[8|]



mikeg -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/5/2009 10:36:02 AM)

"Still, you're bound to get a few real jerks, and its up to everyone to decide how to handle them."

That goes for everything in life, not just fishing!
I am the type that covers a lot of water so I tend to never really get upset about being crowded out! I just move on and find more fish. And I'm also the type to offer a good group of fish to other anglers. To me, watching others catch fish is (almost) as enjoyable! Expecially if it's a first for that angler!

My dad use to tell me...."Son, there are two differant kinds of anglers...You, and all the other A-holes"!
It just amazes me how so many people who share the exact same interest just can't get along!

Since when did this sport become such a competition? We are all there for differant reasons, it's just a matter of sharing the one goal...The fish!




Cold -> RE: A Thread in Regards to Charter Captains! (3/5/2009 10:53:55 AM)

quote:

My dad use to tell me...."Son, there are two differant kinds of anglers...You, and all the other A-holes"!
It just amazes me how so many people who share the exact same interest just can't get along!


It surprises me as well.  In ref. to your dad's quote...that's at once part of the problem and an acutely self-aware observation...while the you vs. them mentality is the problem, the subconscious lumping of yourself in with them might help you realize that you may unintentionally be seen in an identical light by others.  Your dad sounds like a wise individual.[:)]

That's why I sometimes try talking to the people that are ****ing me off.  There've been a few times when a back pocket fisherman has told me that they'd seen me hook a few and were just trying to see how I was doing it!  I dont mind helping someone out at all, but I needed to talk to them to figure out they werent trying to be a ****.



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