dow falls below 10,000 (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Pennsylvania Boards] >> Off Topic Discussions - Pennsylvania



Message

rapala11 -> dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 1:48:22 PM)

market was down 600 points a little while ago.  i don't think this is what they expected when they bailed out the banks.  asia and european markets are down significantly also.



bingsbaits -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 1:52:56 PM)

That 700 billion didn't buy us much peace of mind.....



Bughawk -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 1:55:18 PM)

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing in the long run.  My guess is that investors are a bit squimish right now and are waiting to see what happens.  Eventually it will bottom out and the money will start flowing back in.  Buy low, sell high.... 



griffon -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 2:02:48 PM)

For big, strong financially safe companies you are probably right Bug.  However, I am afraid that this drop (if not... another drop like this in the near future) could be a final nail in the coffin for many companies.  Manufacturers and suppliers to the American public have really felt the pinch this last year or so, and this is not helping those individuals that have already been crippled.  What I think you will see is that survivors will be in a monopolistic seat (not promising the Scrabble validity of that word) where they can charge consumers whatever they feel and they will be able to get away with it.  The oil companies have already done this and I suspect other industries aren't far behind.



Bughawk -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 3:03:55 PM)

griffon,

I think you are right that some companies will not be able to make it and some individuals will be taking this hard as well, but with time, it will turn around.  An economist I was listening to the other day was saying that most recessions don't last more than year and the recovery will start.  Once the investors build up convidence in the market, you will see it go back up. 

Also, the bail out or buy out or whatever you call it had more to do with the availability of money for credit.  It will take a little while to get that system up and running again, as well as people willing to invest.  My guess is that the big players are laying low right now because the big profit investments are not there like they were when the housing market was booming.  They are taking the safe investments like bonds and the tried and true companies.  On top of the that, my guess is the microscope is out right now and everyone is watching Wall Street carefully.  Not too many are willing to gamble at this point.  Better to get a small amount of interest and not loose principle than to put your money on a risky venture and loose it.

I would not be surprised is some of the problems with the market are linked to the election.  I would hate to think people are playing politics with the economy, but being cynical, I could see that.  That would be a huge shame.



LDD -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 3:29:39 PM)

"And a hard rain's gonna fall..." [image]http://forums.fishusa.com/micons/m13.gif[/image]



saltflyfisher -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/6/2008 9:15:44 PM)

If you do some looking your find the number to be closer to 850 billion, thats what happens when you add pork to the menu.
quote:

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

That 700 billion didn't buy us much peace of mind.....



bingsbaits -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 7:06:51 AM)

That's probably the saddest thing in this whole affair. Representatives having to be bribed with pork to get their vote..Sounds a little childish to me...I wish they would send the whole batch of them packing...



indsguiz -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 12:27:23 PM)

Gentlemen,
    You havethe opportunity this november to eliminate the spenders.  If the folks In cali would get rid of Pelosi and the folks in NY would dump Barney Frank and Just a few more we would see some real change.



Bughawk -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 12:33:47 PM)

Barney Frank is from Mass. not NY. 



treedaddy -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 12:50:12 PM)

I bought a silver minning stock in the mid80s, at 2$ per share, about a month latter it rose to 5$ per as another companywas going to buy them out, if bought out the share price was expected to go to 10$ per, as i waited for that to happen ;the buying company did an audit of the silver mine and discovered it to be mined out.The price went to 0$ and has stayed. My question is this--where's my bailout??



rapala11 -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 1:21:21 PM)

tree, i lost the same way on a diamond mine in borneo and a surveilence company that was supposed to be in florida.  also lost almost 1500 shares of my company stock when they went bankrupt.



bulldog1 -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 2:13:00 PM)

Stocks, like poker, is not a place to put money that you can't afford to lose. Like joining the reserves for the free college and then getting freaked when you have to go fight. It wasn't that many years ago that the average joe didn't have money in the stock market, and probably shouldn't have. Im not saying that the opportunity shouldn't be there, just that people should understand the risk involved. Greed is what drives most of this stuff, something for nothing. There was an investment scam in our small community a number of years ago, it guaranteed 13% return when the norm was more like 6%. Sounded too good to be true, so I stayed away. Lots of people lost their retirements and life savings and some folks went to prison. There was no bail out, and rightly so. It used to be when someone bought stock alot of research was done, assets reviewed and decisions made based on the asset to debt ratio, Buffet made millions buying companies for less than their hard assets were worth and liquidating them. Not good for the people that worked there, but he wasn't concerned with that. Now we have guys that were flipping burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that) last week and are financial advisors this week telling us to buy this or that just so they can get the commission, read the fine print it will lay it out plainly that there is no guarantee and that there is risk involved.

Remember "junk bonds"? Just think Donald Trump would be nothing without your money. At some point the chips are just going to have to fall where they may.



LDD -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 2:45:19 PM)

"At some point the chips are just going to have to fall where they may. "

That says it all right there Bulldog.  Sooner or later reality bites. 



Bughawk -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 3:33:06 PM)

The economy goes in cycles, up and down.  It is great riding the upswing and it sucks big time when you take the downswing.  I talked with my investment advisor the last time the economy started to tank and basically his advice was to not panic and ride it out.  Things will turn around.

I personally don't own individual stocks, but I do have mutual funds, several of which are index funds.  We have an investiment strategy that includes large cap, medium cap and small cap funds as well as one fund that is primarily bonds.  Several are aggressive and several are conservative.  One has a lot of international companies, others are domestic and contain companies with good track records.

The bottom line goal is a 10% growth on the money per year over the life time of the investment.  With a diverse portfolio and a long time of investing, I honestly believe I should hit somewhere near that goal, even with the down turns.  Also, the money I have in the market is not everything I have for retirement.  I am in a retirement fund at work, I have my investments, personal savings and my house is paid for.  The key is diversity and not to put all my money into one basket.

I am no financial guru, but I know enough to not do something overly risky.  The value of my portfolio has decreased in certain areas, but others are still OK.  This tells me there is hope for the economy and if everyone does not panic and looks to investing in new industries like domestic energy, wind, solar, clean coal, limited nuclear, etc... and new transportation systems such as high speed rail, alternative fuel vechicles, etc... we can rebuild our economy and lead the world again.  What we need are leaders with vision and the ability to communicate that vision to the people of this country so we can get behind them.

Amercia is the greatest country in the world.  We need to start acting like it.



saltflyfisher -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/7/2008 4:35:51 PM)

Friend of mine has a 401K that had a value of 60,000, today that same fund is worth $17. The 401K was in AIG.

When something like this happens you lose hope and willingness to save.



bingsbaits -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/8/2008 6:45:21 AM)

Did you see where the Ceos of AIG went on a retreat the week after the government gave them 85 billion dollars to bail out the company?

They spent over $400,000 on a week or 10 day party..Spent over $10,000 at the massuse..$169,00 on the hotel rooms...

Sounds like they got punished for there running the company into the ground...

They have no clue.. In my world that is one hell of alot of money...



rapala11 -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/8/2008 7:08:03 AM)

Did you see where the Ceos of AIG went on a retreat the week after the government gave them 85 billion dollars to bail out the company?


bing, that's disgusting, isn't it?  and we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg.  i saw where the former ceo of aig, who was forced out, got 34 million and a million a month as a consultant as part of his golder parachute.

as this continues, we become more like the roman empire.  something has got to give.  



bingsbaits -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/8/2008 7:11:10 AM)

All politics aside seems like GREED will be the straw that broke the camels back...or should I say the working mans back...



rapala11 -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/8/2008 7:22:23 AM)

amen.  we saw it in my own company when it went bankrupt.  they froze our pensions and gave us a stock laden 401k program that failed when the company went under.  the ceo and his cronies all got retention bonuses, forgiveable loans and increases in salaries a month before they were all gone.  it went to court, but what they gave back was pennies.  my 1500 shares of stock became worthless and five years later, i received a little over 50 bucks for it in a class action lawsuit.  (this is what stoked the fires of my political rage....this crap continuing as it does).

if we fail as a country, it won't be because of guys like us.



rapala11 -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/8/2008 7:34:29 AM)

The global financial crisis escalated today with stock markets plummeting and government leaders rushing in to shore up banks and financial institutions. Investors in Japan suffered one of their worst days ever. A Russian exchange was shut down after a huge decline. CNNMoney reports the most dramatic move was in Britain, where the Treasury announced a plan to inject hundreds of billions of dollars into the banking system  just read this.  goes along with what bing said.  this has fallen on the republicans' watch but this greed-stew has been festering for years and is almost done.  it is the fault, in part, of government looking the other way while something may have been placed in their pockets.  both parties and their failed policies have put us on the brink of a depression and both parties should judged as the criminals they have become.



Bughawk -> RE: dow falls below 10,000 (10/8/2008 10:10:01 AM)

I would agree that greed is at the heart of all this mess.  Too many people thinking they are going to get something for nothing.  The sad part is the guys at the top walk away with millions and everyone else gets screwed.  In the past, situations like this have lead to revolutions and the fat cats ending up at the end of a rope or having their head separated from their body.  I am not advocating that, but these guys should be held accountable for their actions and be stripped of the profits they made while the companies they were supposed to be taking care of failed.

For me the most dangerous thing about this whole mess is the shrinking middle class.  I am no economic guru, but it seems to me that when you loose the middle class you are entering into an unstable economic territory.  The poor have nothing to loose, because they have nothing and the rich have everything to loose and will become even more reluctant to change the economic situation.  The whole economy pretty much becomes one of subsistence, with a few living the good life.  This is a recipe for huge problems.

The middle class is what stabilizes an economy.  A large middle class will have enough money to keep the wheels of trade and manufacture going.  If the middle class are comfortable and not economically stressed, the economy will be healthy.  When the middle class is squeezed, they will hold back on spending and the ripple of that will go through the entire economy.  Just watch this holiday season and see what happens.  Our whole economy is based on buying and selling.  If people are not buying, stuff ain't selling, factories will slow production and the whole thing starts to slow down.

In my humble opinion whomever we elect as president must seek to support the middle class and broaden that portion of the economic spectrum as well as provide relief for the poor.  To do less is to continue to sow the seeds of economic ruin.

Oh yes, one last thing, TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS DO NOT WORK and anyone who says they do is living in fantasy land.  Basically that theory is the guys at the top peeing on the rest of us and telling us it is raining.  I for one ain't buying that crap no more.



Page: [1]



   

0.031