where does it end? (Full Version)

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rapala11 -> where does it end? (10/3/2008 6:39:54 PM)

another 159000 jobs lost in september, over 760000 for this year alone.  where does it end?  what will become of the american worker as not only blue collar jobs, but white collar move off our shores.  in the last depression, we had manufacturing to fall back on to get us rolling again.  we no longer have this.  we also provided for the world and now everyone has our technology and abilities.  maybe we should become an agrarian society again.  would hate to be a youngster these days. 



tippy-toe -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 7:47:45 PM)

I think this has been going on for too long...[sm=faga1.gif]Where does it end???.... ask the Roman Empire



S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 9:26:21 PM)

The sky isn't falling as some would have you believe. We are going to have a period of belt tightening because  too many people tried to live beyond their means. It was bound to happen and we have had as bad or worse as this chart shows. Next time buy a 2 year old truck instead of a six year loan on a new one and a house you can afford on a five day pay. For the next few years some may have to live like your parents did most of their lives. BTW check out where we were when the Dems took control of congress.[;)][image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Us_unemployment_rates_1950_2005.png/800px-Us_unemployment_rates_1950_2005.png[/image]



Berk -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 9:47:51 PM)

we actually have a fairly low unemployment rate its like less then 6% i think and yet some people praise other countries like France and they have over a 15% unemployment rate!?!?!?!?



tippy-toe -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 9:51:40 PM)

Praise and France should never be in the same sentence together.....[:D]



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 9:51:45 PM)

"The sky isn't falling as some would have you believe."

If you're one of those 159,000 who just lost THEIR job, their seniority, healthcare, and possibley their pension, it just might BE.

It may NOT be the worst it's ever been ( Although certain aspects ARE the worst they've ever been ). But does it REALLY have to be the WORST before you take it seriously. I suppose if your couch was on fire, you would say " Don't call the FD yet, there has been worse fires".



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:03:18 PM)

Berk,

The un-employment rate ( at least here in the US, don't know about other countries ), is not truly reflective of un, let alone under employment. Once you run out of benefits, you are no longer listed as un-employed. Lose a well paying FULL time job, and have to take a PART time jobs in the interim, and you're no longer considered unemployed. Also, 100,000 new folks enter the workforce each month, so it takes 100,000 new jobs just to break even. Any of those new folks who did not find a job though un-employed, would not be included in the "un-employment rate".



S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:04:14 PM)

Spoon-- Keep your- lets beat Mccain the same way Clinton beat the first Bush scare politics out of this. The Dems are just as, if not more, responsible for this mess than anyone. I was putting rapalls post in perspective with past history. Past history says as bad as it seems we have been through as bad or worse in the past as anyone over 50 already knows. The only question is whether or not there is another shoe to drop we don't know about.



S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:06:42 PM)

Berk--You are correct, past history has shown european countries have unemployment rates 2-7 times higher than ours depending on the country and time frame.



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:15:13 PM)

"Spoon-- Keep your- lets beat Mccain the same way Clinton beat the first Bush scare politics out of this."


You can say that after 8 years of the Carl Rove ( Vote Republican, or everybody dies ) tactics?




S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:21:21 PM)

He may have picked that up from "The sky is falling unless you vote for Bill Clinton" tactics used against the first Bush. What-you think nobody remembers.[:)]



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:25:24 PM)

Well we SAW what happened under the first Bush, and can see ( at least those of us WILLING to see ) what IS happening under the second. Looks like Clinton was right.



S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:27:52 PM)

These figures, again cited in The Wall Street Journal, are really amazing. Being unemployed for over a year is fairly rare here in the U.S., while in parts of Europe it is almost the norm.
[image]http://www.economicswithaface.com/images/Dec04/unemp.jpg[/image]



S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:33:47 PM)

Spoon said=Looks like Clinton was right. Yep--they said you can B.S. people that the economy is bad until after the election is over and he was right. The Dems pulled it off in that situation over Bush the first. g-night




rapala11 -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:36:25 PM)

it is not the unemployment rate so much as the jobs that have replaced the ones that folks are losing are paying much less.  manufacturing out, service in.  service does not pay.  things have changed.  again, i am far down the road, so i may survive but i question what kind of world did we bring our daughter into.



Inukshuk -> RE: where does it end? (10/3/2008 10:40:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: S-10

These figures, again cited in The Wall Street Journal, are really amazing. Being unemployed for over a year is fairly rare here in the U.S., while in parts of Europe it is almost the norm.
[image]http://www.economicswithaface.com/images/Dec04/unemp.jpg[/image]


Does comparing our unemployment rate to Europes help our problems here?  Does it change the fact that there have been 9 straight months of job loss?  S-10, you seem to perpetually deny the fact that this country is in economic trouble.  I am not talking about Wall Street.  I'm talking about banks, the housing market etc...  Even the STATE of California, is now asking for a 7 billion dollar bail out.  What has to happen to convince you that the Americans are suffering and George Bush and Dick Cheney have a lot to do with it?



indsguiz -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 12:40:47 AM)

Gentlemen,
    We have sold our country's future for an unsustainable present and a bleak future.   We have regulated ourselves out of competativeness.   What would bring jobs back to the USA would be Protective tarriffs.  Make it too expensive for the chineese to dump cheap steel here and the steel industry would rebound.  But we do need to relax some of the environmental regulations a bit for manufacturing.  Make it a requirement that every auto sold in the U.S. contain at least 75% domestically produced parts and we'd have a winner.  Limit the amount of compensation federal employees can get or those entities controlled buy the government.  No profit no bonus. It's that simple.  Stop creating federal beucracies that only feed themselves.  Give the president full line item veto power (stop pork barrell spending).  Put a tax on the outsourcing of technical jobs. Or better yet pass a law that they must stay within the U.S. boundaries.  Quit allowing jobs making money in the usa to be sourced outside the USA.  Eliminate futures trading and short selling on the markets.  Make it a rule that all planes sold in the U.S. contain 90% domestically produced and asembled parts.
      These few things are so obvious that it's amazing that we can't implement them.  But trade treaties designed to really help a few are ruining our way of life.



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 2:21:02 AM)

"Spoon said=Looks like Clinton was right. Yep--they said you can B.S. people that the economy is bad until after the election is over and he was right."

So you still believe the economy is GOOD? Man I gotta get some of THAT Koolaid. 



S-10 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 6:04:18 AM)

Nice spin spoon---you and I were talking about the tactics used by Clinton against the FIRST BUSH.  The charts I put up are comparing what we are presently going through with past history to show that we have been through it and survived before and we are still better off than many other countries as the youngster noted.  We have no one but ourselves to blame for this mess because it was caused by our trying to live beyond our means. Regardless of who tempted us with easy money it was the individual who signed on the dotted line and took it without worrying about how to pay it back. All you are doing is spouting the party line and I get enough of that from the political types they put on the news networks. Try thinking for yourself for a change.



rapala11 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 7:42:28 AM)

 We have no one but ourselves to blame for this mess because it was caused by our trying to live beyond our means


we are not the reason for job losses, s.  free trade agreements and greed have moved our jobs offshore.  replacing jobs pay little.  bush said a few years ago we are creating good paying jobs, but of the 11 sectors that had job growth, eight payed minimum wage or slightly higher.  politics aside, you have to admit that things have changed for the worse since you and i were younger. 



harry1 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 8:45:37 AM)

the unemploment rate is 100% when you are the onewith out a job. 



jon_e_si -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 12:31:37 PM)

Clinton was right about this:

President Clinton agreed:

CHRIS CUOMO, ABC NEWS: A little surprising for you to hear the Democrats saying, "This came out of nowhere, this is all about the Republicans. We had nothing to do with this." Nancy Pelosi saying it. She signed the '99 Gramm Bill. She knew what was going on with the SEC. They're all sophisticated people. Is that playing politics in this situation?

BILL CLINTON: Well, maybe everybody does that a little bit. I think the responsibility the Democrats have may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress or by me when I was President to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Imagine that!
Kudos to Cuomo for asking the question, and kudos to Clinton for being so honest, especially in an election year.

The only question remains whether other news outlets will follow suit and begin telling the American people just how many proposals Republicans have made in the past decade to impose tighter regulations and oversight on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and how such efforts were routinely thwarted by Democrats.



rapala11 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 12:40:08 PM)

or vice-versa.  they have worked against each other since the end of nam and you and i pay the price.  right now, bill clinton has an obvious agenda.  whether on side deregulated and the other failed to block is irrelevant, they are both guilty of duping the american people again.

i say...vote to block....and then begin to vote them all out.



harry1 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 3:09:59 PM)

this situation will not end till bush and his clone, mc same, are both in the unemployment line.



Berk -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 5:16:20 PM)

spoon don't dis Karl Rove he is amazing u can thank him for not letting this country fall into the hands of the great liberals like John Kerry and the great one Al Gore



rapala11 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 6:38:14 PM)

berk, karl rove was one of the more questionable characters in the culture of corruption.  he had the integrity of a snake. 



jackq -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 7:11:47 PM)

rapala,
That's not saying much for the snake!!![;)]



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 7:30:55 PM)

"Try thinking for yourself for a change."

You might try that yourself. If you don't think the economy is severely struggling, and on the decline. You are not only not thinking for yourself, but you don't even open your eyes to SEE for yourself. Think BEYOND your own personal household, and finances. By the way, it is NOT just folks living beyond their means at the root. Granted that plays a role, even a big role, but it is hardly THE driving factor. By the way again, your beloved, unbridled capitalism not only encourages, but depends, and effectively demands that folks live beyond their means. Don't you remember our fearless leader's words? To paraphrase, " Go spend. live, buy, or the terrorists win. Never a word of sacrifice for the common good.



spoonchucker -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 7:41:21 PM)

"spoon don't dis Karl Rove he is amazing u can thank him for not letting this country fall into the hands of the great liberals like John Kerry and the great one Al Gore"
 
And gave us 8 years of George Bush. All the reason TO "dis" him.

If Jr. were more like, and learned ANYTHING from his old man, we might not be in the situations we find ourselves. Not one of my favorite pres'. by any stretch, but  fairly cool headed.



rapala11 -> RE: where does it end? (10/4/2008 7:54:06 PM)

define liberal, please.



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