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UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/29/2008 8:11:21 PM   
mikeg


Posts: 3417
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Erie, PA
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We are in a state of economic emergency and nothing has been agreeded upon. Yet our Goverment will not continue working on a plan to "fix" our problem untill Wednesday!

Why?
Because of that once in a year holiday will all love so much....
Rosh Hashanah!
 
Great work guys....the country is in a state of panic and you guys are taking the day off for the Rosh Hashanah holiday!!!

Here's what "We the People" think......



< Message edited by mikeg -- 9/30/2008 1:25:23 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/29/2008 8:36:02 PM   
tippy-toe


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Agreed

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RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/29/2008 8:37:36 PM   
cooljauman


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From: dA HoOd SoN
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ridiculous.....


i wish i had the day off geez


_____________________________

Sorry boss I seem to have anal glaucoma. I just cant see my a$$ going to work today

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RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:21:43 AM   
rapala11

 

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did you know they work two days a week on average.  if you really want to get disgusted, check out their pensions.  decadent, for sure............ 

_____________________________

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..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 4
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:37:09 AM   
gobyking

 

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How many Jewish people in Gov't do we have? Can't be more than 5%. Let them take the day off and miss the most important vote in history in the last 30+ years. Just a cop out to get more days off. Next they'll be taking the day off for Ramadan.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 5
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:48:53 AM   
DanesDad

 

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Actually, this is good news because they shouldn't be bailing out anyone.  You make bad decisions and fail, that's your tough luck. It's called the free market and that's how it works.  Is the government gonna bail you out if you fail?  I doubt it.

(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 6
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 6:04:13 AM   
CRAPPIE_SLAYER

 

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Agreed w/ DanesDad

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RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 7:00:31 AM   
jon_e_si

 

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Some of what Dick Morris says:
The difference in the bailout plans is, of course, largely cosmetic. Dead paper is dead paper whether it is on the books of the government, purchased from banks, or on the books of the banks, insured by the government. The game is the same: Through loans or grants fund the deficient debt service on the defaulted mortgages until homes can recover their value in the cyclical real estate market.

But it makes all the difference in the world politically if this task is accomplished by buying bad debt or by lending the bankers the money to cover their current losses while they keep their bad debts on their books and by insuring them against future losses.

Loans are politically viable. Purchase of bad debt with tax money is not.

 
My thought: If Warren Buffet makes a bad 5 Billion dollar investment of his own money, it's not up to the US taxpayers to save his bacon!

Early in the Bush administration he (Bush) called for more regulation of the lending practices, but was thwarted by Barney Frank (going to deny masses chance for home ownership) and his crowd who is one of the leading cheerleaders for the bail-out! These people (elected- both sides) are so egocentric - they can't be "wrong" and now want to fix their mistakes with your tax dollars!

My solution: go fishing - think about it - come back & listen to more of the BS - then go fishing again - think about it some more!

Maybe it's time for some of these $20,000,000.00 CEO's to start earning their incomes rather than "donating" to selected elected officials to bail them out of their predicaments!

(in reply to CRAPPIE_SLAYER)
Post #: 8
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 7:11:19 AM   
Inukshuk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

Actually, this is good news because they shouldn't be bailing out anyone.  You make bad decisions and fail, that's your tough luck. It's called the free market and that's how it works.  Is the government gonna bail you out if you fail?  I doubt it.


I would typically agree with this, unfortunately millions of Americans are going to go down because of bad decisions made by greedy corporate a- holes.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 9
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 8:33:52 AM   
eyesandgillz


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Interesting reading in this opinion piece.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/news/mostread/s_590330.html

DanesDad, I agree with you in principle but, if lending and credit dries up, our economy will come to a grinding halt.  The world economy will be soon to follow.  It is a bitter pill to swallow but I don't want to have to live through a depression like my grandparents had to.  I don't want to subject my kids to it either.  I didn't agree with how the original bill was structured (but I am still fuzzy on the details) but if the taxpayers have a chance to make something out of nothing (able to reap some gains on the gov't owned mortgage notes in the future when housing values recover), then I think it is worthwhile to potentially stop an economic meltdown.  Should the gov't own these notes or just provide insurance to the banks who would still own the notes?  I think that is the sticking point of the bill but I could be wrong.  Will the insurance alone be enough to restore confidence in lenders and loosen up the purse strings some?  That is the million dollar question.  I do hope there is more oversight and more regulation but I hope they don't go too far because if they do, it will have the same effect as doing nothing.  Too much gov't involvement is usually an impediment to economic growth. 


(in reply to Inukshuk)
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RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 8:46:49 AM   
rapala11

 

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My solution: go fishing - think about it - come back & listen to more of the BS - then go fishing again - think about it some more! .................jon for prez or his own dr. phil show.
 
 


Maybe it's time for some of these $20,000,000.00 CEO's to start earning their incomes rather than "donating" to selected elected officials to bail them out of their predicaments!

wisdom personified.......good one, jon.

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 8:48:31 AM   
rapala11

 

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I do hope there is more oversight and more regulation but I hope they don't go too far because if they do, it will have the same effect as doing nothing.  Too much gov't involvement is usually an impediment to economic growth. 



eyes, i ask this with true sincereity, but is some or all of this due to the deregulation of the banking industry?

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 12
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 9:12:45 AM   
Bughawk


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I am not so sure taking a day off for whatever reason is not such a bad idea.  Sometimes you need a little time to think and reflect.  That is a good thing.  Also, I will bet there is something going on behind the scenes. 

Another thing to consider is that we are where we are.  No amount of finger pointing is going to change that.  I believe that we need to hold those individuals who contributed to this mess accountable.  This would be the investment bankers, the bank officials who approved all those shaky loans, the people who took out the loans, and just about anyone who is financially overextended.  We need everyone who has a debt to pay up.  That way we will all be back to even, right?  The mess we are in cannot be laid only at the feet of the folks on Wall Street.  There is plenty of blame right here on Main Street.  The thing to do is to not panic, stop the finger pointing, hold people accountable, seek rational solutions and realize we will get through this.

Where do we go from here?  We need to understand how we got into this mess, seek to stabilize the economy and put into policies so it will not happen again.  The reality is that the damage is done.  Now we must pick up the pieces and move forward.  It is like when our computer crashes.  It sucks, we get angry, but unless we accept the loss of our data and reboot, we will be stuck.  It is time to reboot the system and look to the future. 

Lastly, we all need to reexamine our priorities.  What is really important to us.  Once we do, I think we need to look at where our most important investments are not in the stock market, but in the lives of our love ones. 

We will get through this.

_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

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Post #: 13
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 10:29:14 AM   
indsguiz


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Gentlemen,
   An interesting thing has emerged from the preliminary checking into this mess.  Only the low grade paper was "packaged" as investments; the banks kept most of the good loans on their own books.  In other words if somebody had the money to pay a sizeable down payment on a home and they weren't "marginalized" on their income,  the banks kept these loans.  It's when a bank examined loans that were questionable that they packaged these loans as a group and sold them as high yield securities.  ANd believe me there are very quick ways to determine the value ratio of a loan. They figured that if they had a bunch of loans @7% and a few of them defaulted the return would be 4% and the moderate loans would cover the losses on the bad loans.  But as it progressed the bad loans got bigger and bigger.
   It is a common thing for  banks to sell mortgages; that way they make their money on loan origination fees and on the transaction fees.  They take a 7% loan sell it for 4% and make 3% of the principle back immediately.  Sometimes the pay back is only 1% but 1% of a 150,000 loan is 1500 plus they got their principle back immediately.   What we have seen is that the paper is no longer wanted because the values of the homes have dropped, in some areas by as much as 40%  Take a home which should have cost 250,000 and was sold at 425,000 and see what figures you come up with. 
   Now way too many people wanted to play he real estate game and figured they could buy a home they could barely afford and then re-sell it (since prices were going way up due to artifical inflation of appraisals)and make a profit.  Some folks in Cali and Fla and Ariz actually made a living by doing this.  Then the market for these homes fell apart. There just weren't enough fools willing to pay inflated prices for overvalued property. So people were left with 250,000 homes that they had agreed to pay 425,000 for.  SO they just walked away.
    There is a lot more to do with it than this and I could probably go on for about three web pages explaining it but that's it in a nutshell.  Greed, falshoods, and out right lies.  They are great when you benefit from them but they really have a strong bite when they come back on you.

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Illigetimi None Carburundrum

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Post #: 14
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 10:30:43 AM   
LDD

 

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It is absolutely typical that they would take a day off in the HEAT of trying to pass legislation concerning the biggest financial disaster since the great depression.  I don't care if it's freakin Christmas, they should be hammering something out. 

I have mixed feelings about the whole bailout.  I think that comes from a lack of knowledge about how many people will be affected if it does not come through.

(in reply to Bughawk)
Post #: 15
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 10:46:28 AM   
mikeg


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"how many people will be affected if it does not come through"

Well, here's your answer....

Everybody!

(in reply to LDD)
Post #: 16
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 10:57:54 AM   
Bughawk


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LDD I honestly believe that something is being done, but not on an official level.  Taking a day off to let eveyone chill out and take a few deep breaths is not necessarily a bad idea.  If you keep pounding away and trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. 

If they don't have anything by the end of the week and they are still bickering, I would say that the American people should vote everyone of those bozos out of office.

_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

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Post #: 17
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 10:59:01 AM   
griffon

 

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The thing is, religeon is bigger than any government.  Our government and people have lost sight of how important religeon is in other cultures, as well as in our own.  Religeous persecution was one of the biggest reasons that our country fought Britain almost 250 years ago.  Religeon is the reason that the Middle East has fought wars for tens of thousands of years and will continue to do so, no matter how much the USA or any other country tries to implement their own political doctrines.  Religeous uprisings will and have overthrown governments.  Governments rarely (except in genocide situations) get rid of religeous beliefs, as those always seem to survive.

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Post #: 18
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 11:24:10 AM   
mikeg


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I agree that religion is an important part of our culture, but if a tornado was barreling down on you would you stop and pray or get the heck out of it's path?

I'm at work today trying to figure out a way to get us out of the "red" and to make a little money! Why aren't they?

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Post #: 19
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:12:30 PM   
cooljauman


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i heard Ben Stein on Larry King Live last night complaining about this

he said something to the extent of it being crazy that our nation is in trouble and they are taking the day off

also that Judaism will never be the national religion and that this holiday should not be taking time away from govt officials during a crisis like this


made me chuckle quite a bit but has a point...


_____________________________

Sorry boss I seem to have anal glaucoma. I just cant see my a$$ going to work today

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Post #: 20
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:17:34 PM   
pxatim


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Ben Stein is a genious...wish I could have seen that

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Post #: 21
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:18:27 PM   
griffon

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikeg

I agree that religion is an important part of our culture, but if a tornado was barreling down on you would you stop and pray or get the heck out of it's path?

I'm at work today trying to figure out a way to get us out of the "red" and to make a little money! Why aren't they?


Me???  hell no, I am running as fast as I can in the other direction.  Others, who are strict religeous followers of their faith might very well stand and battle the storm just so that they may stay true to their beliefs.  Religeon is all powerful and trumps everything else.

If you figure out how to get us in the black, let the two candidates know, since they have no idea.


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Post #: 22
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:18:44 PM   
Grendel


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Tough times

< Message edited by Grendel -- 9/30/2008 12:24:36 PM >


_____________________________

Science like nature
Must also be tamed
With a view towards its preservation
Given the same state of integrity
It will surely serve us well ~ NP

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Post #: 23
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:27:39 PM   
mikeg


Posts: 3417
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From: Erie, PA
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Doc,

Thanks for "pointing" that out (yes, pun is intended).
That is an amicon that was taken directly off the amicon list from this site. Is it "vulgar", yes perhaps, but I've never deleted anyones' post that contained any of them!

And if you're refering to any posts' from this area of the website, than I can't help with that. I'm just a moderator of the Erie section!


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Post #: 24
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 12:29:12 PM   
S-10

 

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In a free market system you fire the incompentent, jail the crooked and let the market take care of itself. The little guy will get hurt no matter which way it goes. The big investors that bought into the housing market will lose a bundle but he didn't give us his profits when the market was hot so I can't feel sorry for him now. This is from a guy who has his retirement wrapped up in the market.

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Post #: 25
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 1:16:13 PM   
rapala11

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: S-10

In a free market system you fire the incompentent, jail the crooked and let the market take care of itself. The little guy will get hurt no matter which way it goes. The big investors that bought into the housing market will lose a bundle but he didn't give us his profits when the market was hot so I can't feel sorry for him now. This is from a guy who has his retirement wrapped up in the market.


this cannot be questioned.  wish actions were taken against the incompetent and the crooked.  seems as though they go unscathed always while we take it in the keester.  good one,s  

_____________________________

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..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 26
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 1:19:04 PM   
jon_e_si

 

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Good read! Check this from 2005 to now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvG-s_Ssb0

and this:

It turns out government pressure on lending institutions was far more specific and threatening than many realize. Government threats against banks that were initially cautious about making "subprime" loans or lending to people with bad credit, no savings, no verifiable income or no job included:

" Failure to comply with the Equal Credit Opportunity Act or Regulation B can subject a financial institution to civil liability for actual and punitive damages in individual or class actions. Liability for punitive damages can be as much as $10,000 in individual actions and the lesser of $500,000 or 1 percent of the creditor's net worth in class actions."
Think this is a wild fabrication? - see attached official Government document .
And these guidelines included:
Credit History: Lack of credit history should not be seen as a negative factor.... In reviewing past credit problems, lenders should be willing to consider extenuating circumstances. For lower-income applicants in particular, unforeseen expenses can have a disproportionate effect on an otherwise positive credit record. In these instances, paying off past bad debts or establishing a regular repayment schedule with creditors may demonstrate a willingness and ability to resolve debts....
Down Payment and Closing Costs: Accumulating enough savings to cover the various costs associated with a mortgage loan is often a significant barrier to homeownership by lower-income applicants. Lenders may wish to allow gifts, grants, or loans from relatives, nonprofit organizations, or municipal agencies to cover part of these costs. . . .

Sources of Income: In addition to primary employment income, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will accept the following as valid income sources: overtime and part-time work, second jobs (including seasonal work), retirement and Social Security income, alimony, child support, Veterans Administration (VA) benefits, welfare payments, and unemployment benefits.




It turns out government pressure on lending institutions was far more specific and threatening than many realize. Government threats against banks that were initially cautious about making "subprime" loans or lending to people with bad credit, no savings, no verifiable income or no job included:

" Failure to comply with the Equal Credit Opportunity Act or Regulation B can subject a financial institution to civil liability for actual and punitive damages in individual or class actions. Liability for punitive damages can be as much as $10,000 in individual actions and the lesser of $500,000 or 1 percent of the creditor's net worth in class actions."
Think this is a wild fabrication? - see attached official Government document .
And these guidelines included:
Credit History: Lack of credit history should not be seen as a negative factor.... In reviewing past credit problems, lenders should be willing to consider extenuating circumstances. For lower-income applicants in particular, unforeseen expenses can have a disproportionate effect on an otherwise positive credit record. In these instances, paying off past bad debts or establishing a regular repayment schedule with creditors may demonstrate a willingness and ability to resolve debts....
Down Payment and Closing Costs: Accumulating enough savings to cover the various costs associated with a mortgage loan is often a significant barrier to homeownership by lower-income applicants. Lenders may wish to allow gifts, grants, or loans from relatives, nonprofit organizations, or municipal agencies to cover part of these costs. . . .

Sources of Income: In addition to primary employment income, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will accept the following as valid income sources: overtime and part-time work, second jobs (including seasonal work), retirement and Social Security income, alimony, child support, Veterans Administration (VA) benefits, welfare payments, and unemployment benefits.



LA Times (May 1999):



http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/31/news/mn-42807



"It's one of the hidden success stories of the Clinton era. In the great housing boom of the 1990s, black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."



"Clinton's efforts to increase minority access to loans and capital also have spurred this decade's gains. Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate."



" Lenders also have opened the door wider to minorities because of new initiatives at Freddie and Fannie in 1992.

Congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains. It has aimed extensive advertising campaigns at minorities that explain how to buy a home and opened three dozen local offices to encourage lenders to serve these markets. Most importantly, Fannie Mae has agreed to buy more loans with very low down payments-or with mortgage payments that represent an unusually high percentage of a buyer's income. That's made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected."



"... William C. Apgar says, HUD's analysis suggests there are enough qualified buyers to move the minority homeownership rate into the mid-50% range. The two companies (Freddy & Fannie) are now required to devote 42% of their portfolios to loans for low- and moderate-income borrowers; HUD, which has the authority to set the targets, is poised to propose an increase this summer. Although Fannie Mae actually has exceeded its target since 1994, it is resisting any hike. It argues that a higher target would only produce more loan defaults by pressuring banks to accept unsafe borrowers. HUD says Fannie Mae is resisting more low-income loans because they are less profitable."



"Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate.
 
LA Times (May 1999):



http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/31/news/mn-42807



"It's one of the hidden success stories of the Clinton era. In the great housing boom of the 1990s, black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."



"Clinton's efforts to increase minority access to loans and capital also have spurred this decade's gains. Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate."



" Lenders also have opened the door wider to minorities because of new initiatives at Freddie and Fannie in 1992.

Congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains. It has aimed extensive advertising campaigns at minorities that explain how to buy a home and opened three dozen local offices to encourage lenders to serve these markets. Most importantly, Fannie Mae has agreed to buy more loans with very low down payments-or with mortgage payments that represent an unusually high percentage of a buyer's income. That's made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected."



"... William C. Apgar says, HUD's analysis suggests there are enough qualified buyers to move the minority homeownership rate into the mid-50% range. The two companies (Freddy & Fannie) are now required to devote 42% of their portfolios to loans for low- and moderate-income borrowers; HUD, which has the authority to set the targets, is poised to propose an increase this summer. Although Fannie Mae actually has exceeded its target since 1994, it is resisting any hike. It argues that a higher target would only produce more loan defaults by pressuring banks to accept unsafe borrowers. HUD says Fannie Mae is resisting more low-income loans because they are less profitable."



"Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate.
 
LA Times (May 1999):



http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/31/news/mn-42807



"It's one of the hidden success stories of the Clinton era. In the great housing boom of the 1990s, black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."



"Clinton's efforts to increase minority access to loans and capital also have spurred this decade's gains. Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate."



" Lenders also have opened the door wider to minorities because of new initiatives at Freddie and Fannie in 1992.

Congress mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains. It has aimed extensive advertising campaigns at minorities that explain how to buy a home and opened three dozen local offices to encourage lenders to serve these markets. Most importantly, Fannie Mae has agreed to buy more loans with very low down payments-or with mortgage payments that represent an unusually high percentage of a buyer's income. That's made banks willing to lend to lower-income families they once might have rejected."



"... William C. Apgar says, HUD's analysis suggests there are enough qualified buyers to move the minority homeownership rate into the mid-50% range. The two companies (Freddy & Fannie) are now required to devote 42% of their portfolios to loans for low- and moderate-income borrowers; HUD, which has the authority to set the targets, is poised to propose an increase this summer. Although Fannie Mae actually has exceeded its target since 1994, it is resisting any hike. It argues that a higher target would only produce more loan defaults by pressuring banks to accept unsafe borrowers. HUD says Fannie Mae is resisting more low-income loans because they are less profitable."



"Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate.
 

 

(in reply to eyesandgillz)
Post #: 27
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 1:28:48 PM   
Bughawk


Posts: 6106
Status: offline
S-10 that sounds good and I agree the big guy should be held accountable and if he looses his shirt, then so be it, but the problem here is the banks where you and I and a lot of other people have their money will not be able to cover all of their debt due to the bad loans they made.  Basically, as I understand it, they were loaning money they did not have to people speculating on the real estate market.  The idea was if I give you a loan for $200,000 to buy a house, in a couple of years the house will be worth $400,000 and both the bank and the person buying the house would make out.  It was a win, win situation.  Since the bottom fell out of the real estate market, it has become a loose, loose situation.  The people with the loans can't pay them off, the property is not worth what it was anticipated to be and in the long run the money the bank was hoping to get back is gone.  I heard the other day on the radio some banks were leveraged up to 30 times the actual value of loans.  It was a huge risk and it blew up in their faces.  Now the banks can't cover all of their obligations.  If they go under, so do we. 

On top of this, the banks are not loaning money to each other any more and this is shutting down the flow of money that drives the economy.  Without that money moving around, the whole economy shuts down and we all are screwed. 

What I believe should happen is the banks need to be stabilized and the bad loans covered to keep the economy from collapsing.  Some of the money will be lost, but hopefully, we will be able to recoup some of the loan, perhaps pennies on the dollar, but at least something.

Next, those responsible for writing these bad loans and promoting them should be rounded, any profit they made from their actions should be taken from them, selling their properties, homes, cars, etc... and applied to paying back these bad loans, and they should be forced to work for the rest of their careers to pay back as much as they can. 

Third, every step should be taken to be sure that people will not loose their homes.  For those who can pay, but say not at the inflated rate, adjust their loans to a reasonable level and let them pay it off.  For those who can not pay, will have to see how to help them sell their home and find one they can afford or to find some other housing situation such as an apartment or condo.  It does no one any good to have a ton of homes on the market with no one living in them.  That makes no sense what so ever.  Actually with a more reasonable cost of housing, more people may be able to now afford the houses in the market and that would help give the economy a boost.

Fourth, looking to the future we need to pass laws that stop this kind of thing from ever happening again.  If people want to gamble, let them go to Las Vegas.  The crazy loan selling business was stupid from the get go and should never have happened.

Fifth, we need to educate our children.  I know this sounds strange, but a lot of the reason we are in this mess is people were looking to make a killing.  We need to teach our children about money, investments, loans, etc... and what is responsible and what is irresponsible.  There is no such thing as a free lunch and if a deal looks too good to be true, it most likely is a scam.  We all need to adjust our expectations and learn to enjoy what we have and keep chasing after stuff we cannot afford and don't really need.



_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 28
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 1:42:08 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1713
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online
Aww  what the heck----lets all  go along with Nancy Ploisky and Barney Frank and just blame Bush. I watched Ben Stein and his counterpart last night and both agreed that it was a terrible bill as written without safegards and some items having nothing to do with the bailout. Also in 2003 Barney Frank said Fannie and Freddie were in great shape and congress would never bail out those folks. It's no wonder the Dems want to help Bush, They started the whole mess. Not that Bush is blameless.

(in reply to jon_e_si)
Post #: 29
RE: UNBELIEVABLE!! - 9/30/2008 1:53:39 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1713
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online
Bug--I agree with a lot of what you say but remember, It's the taxpayers money that will be lost either way and it's the same folks who screwed it up who we are going to rely on to do the right thing, overseen by a congress who none of us have any confidence in. If you gave your investment guy 10 grand to invest for you and he came back a few months later and said---sorry Bug but I lost your 10 grand but if you give me another 10G's I have a different idea I want to try.  Would You Bite? It's a really bad situation but even though it will hurt me I perfer to let the market take care of itself. Plus, I don't know much predictions of doom I believe coming from the guys who really have more to lose than I do. 

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 30
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