now that the bailout is enacted............. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Pennsylvania Boards] >> Off Topic Discussions - Pennsylvania



Message


rapala11 -> now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 8:55:57 AM)

........would like to hear opinions.

myself, i am disappointed in bush, mccain and obama as well as the house democrats for pushing this through.  i am probably wrong again, but was speed of the essence?  i think the congressional republicans had the right idea on approaching the problem, this time.




indsguiz -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 11:51:59 AM)

Rap,
   I think anyone who has had to make their own money and then lost it and tried to live in the last 16 years is disgusted at the bailout.  It was started when the congress passed the housing reform act and then continued with the loosning of the banking requirements that allowed "packaging" of worthless debt (which was inflated all up the chain by brokers fees).  Then you have the CEO's and managers of these funds pushing this debt as sound, all the while raking in huge salaries for themselves and their associates, and then leaving the funds carrying the bag for their lies.   There is criminal deciet here and nobody wants to go after it.   It even extends to the fund managers who allowed the "borrowing" of shares by brokers who shorted the stock and then bought it back later at a lesser price and scored two transaction fees on the funds.  If I was involved with any union I would be screaming at my president to get control over our retirement funds before they are raped anymore by these parasites.
   I have been following this for years and I have posted items on this board and ben ridiculed for my opinions but now I can truthfully say "I TOLD YOU SO!" to all the people who felt that my ideas were too conservative.
   The start of the whole mess is the housing reform act.  It allowed people who didn't qualify for a normal home loan to  buy homes that they couldn't afford and wouldn't pay for; to buy homes at inflated prices and then borrow money on those homes based on "PROJECTED" rises in value.  Again massive fraud.  I would like to see things return to a normal state where a person had to show ability and responsibility to pay for the homes they buy. 
    I realize that there are cases where people will still have to default because of loss of jobs or emergencies but this massive "walk-away" syndrome just because they can't use their nomes as money making schemes has got to stop.
   The only real possible silver lining is the fact that the U.S. will now own a whole lot of property that should go up in value and should allow the re-coup of all money (plus) if the government doesn't create some huge system that will eat up all the money it makes. 




spoonchucker -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 12:08:37 PM)

The market certainly is not responing well thus far. Not sure if it is because of word that some house republicans are balking, or because WALL STREET is balking.




gonefishin -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 12:53:40 PM)

Same answer as last week Rap on another thread similar to what Indsguiz had to say.   I don't like it, but I believe they had to do it due to the domino effect this was having.   I guess they do still have to officially vote today so the game is not over yet.  I'm also disappointed how McCain and Obama answered the questions Friday night about how this impacts their respective agendas and what they must give up.  This would have been a great time to have a viable 3rd party candidate on the scene that could have chewed up both of them on Friday.  Or, I wish Jesse Ventura were the moderator and failure to answer the question gets you body slammed on the stage.  The IMF released a report last week on the last 124 financial crises around the world in the past 27 years.   The average cost of "cleanup" is 13.3% of GDP.   That is $2 trillion for us IF average happens.   The $700B is only a piece of the puzzle.   




rapala11 -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 1:07:48 PM)

gone, thanks, i feel a little better, but i have as much input on this subject as i do brain surgery so i do need some guidance.  really don't belong in this arena.  would be nice if there was an third party involved, a viable one at that.

spoon, i saw the markets are done considerably.  my wife saw a news clip that suggested that it would start this way.  all we can do is hope and pray.  if we rebound, i get a new fly rod, if we don't we are moving into our pop-up[:o]




SmallieKiller -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 3:03:02 PM)

Looks like it was not so much enacted as it was rejected




eyesandgillz -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 3:52:42 PM)

At least oil futures are down, eh?  [:D]

"Energy stocks fell sharply on Monday as crude oil futures plunged more than $6. In recent trading, crude was down $10.38 to $96.50 a barrel. Gold futures jumped $22.10 to $905.00 an ounce."

Not sure what to think on this bailout.  On one hand, I think the companies/banks should reap what they have sown but on the other hand, I know if that many companies/banks fail, we will be in, as my high school buddy now certified financial planner says, "financial and economic armageddon."  Scary times right now...just glad I am not retiring this year! 




cooljauman -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 4:04:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmallieKiller

Looks like it was not so much enacted as it was rejected



yeah i just read that the House rejected it!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown




spoonchucker -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 4:18:58 PM)

Pelosi made some very unfortunate, and poorly thought out words ( imagine that ). That said, if you are willing to break your word with your party leadership, and possibley risk the economic future of the country because you are offended by a speech. You should NOT be in office.




Carpet Bagger -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 4:40:38 PM)

66% of the republicans voted it down as well as 40% of democrats...

So much for sticking with Bush...lol

Bail out the homeowner not the company who poorly invested their mortgage....




indsguiz -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 5:20:00 PM)

I agree strongly.   I feel that since home values are so overrated and inflated that there has yo be a re-aligning of value.  Also I would like to see a provision that a person has to agree to ive in the house they finance for at least 6 years (extenuating circumnstances excluded) and they must have lived in their house for at least 4 years before they can get an additional (second) mortgage.  That will exclude spculators and force housing prices down.  Of course I'd also like to see a law where realtors couldn't charge more than 5% commission on any transaction.




bingsbaits -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 5:24:34 PM)

Can't beleive the Democrat controlled house shot it down....Must have been a bad bill....




jackq -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 5:37:14 PM)

indsguiz,
  I agree with you on overrated and inflated housing prices, but I wonder how the devaluation of property will affect local communities and school districts since their budgets (a.k.a. taxes) are based on property values? Not trying to be a smart a$$, just throwing out another question.




Liverache -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 6:52:31 PM)

I was just watching the NBC news and a reporter went through the voteing congressmen and found that if they were up for re election a very large majority of them voted against the bill, must be that we the peeps dont want it it either




spoonchucker -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 7:01:31 PM)

DuUd,

Nobody ( except WS brokers ) WANT this, but we won't like the result of this, or a similar bill not being passed even more. The effects of doing nothing could be a standstill of US, and world economics. I don't want it, but I do.




tippy-toe -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 7:38:10 PM)

Spoon, exactly...I'd hate to see these big wigs not pay for the party they have been having for the last 10 years, but the alternative will be bad for everyone...




jonnyfishon -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/29/2008 10:29:24 PM)

      IS THER A BETTER SOLUTION???                                                                                                                                         1) Bailing out homeowners will immediately reinstate up to 80% of the $500 billion already ‘written off’ by Wall St. as ‘toxic loans.’
(Recoup the lost value already written off by Wall Street over the last year by simply refinancing homeowners. Banks get a lot more money running this money through homeowners then by circumventing them once again. Gov’t puts-in $500 billion and instantly gets about 80% of this $500 billion in lost market value. In contrast, Paulson’s bailout plan would wipe out this entire value.)

2) Double or triple the value bailing out homeowners then banks.
(Bailing out homeowners refinances 100% of loan thereby giving banks 100% value on their corresponding securities holdings. In contrast, if these securities are instead sold to the Fed; banks will only get 30% to 50% of the securities value. Banks will make more sending this bailout money through homeowners then if banks get a direct bailout.)

3) Refinance 5 Loans for same price as one ‘toxic loan.’
(We get 5 times greater market reach for the same money. This means we can handle 5 times more ‘bad loans’ then Paulson’s plan.)

4) $700 Billion (bailout) can be used to refinance $3.5 Trillion in real estate loans. Transform all ‘toxic loans’ into income producing assets for banks.
(A $1 trillion bailout would equal $5.5 trillion in refinancing. Gov’t recoups up to $200 billion in taxes from sale of properties and their corresponding securities. The Gov’t will also recoup the $400 billion in ‘loans’ provided to AIG, Fanie & Fredie Mac and all the other institutions going/gone into bankruptcy. The $500 billion used for homeowners will be fully recouped by gov’t. within months from these taxes and refunds alone. Paulson’s bailout will take decades before it could ever recoup anything. Many expect that much of this bail out money will be lost.)

5) Refinancing owners will stabilize entire real estate market
(Refinancing $5 trillion in mortgages will settle much of the real estate markets within 60 to 90 days. The bank bailout only makes problem worse for it fails to stop the downward spiral of dropping real estate prices of the coming 4 million homes now 2 months past due.)

6) Two market prices: Homeowner (at 80%) vs. Investor (for just 20%)
(You can sell a foreclosure to an investor for 80% less or refinance a homeowner for just 20% less. Get 60% more $ by refinancing homeowners over foreclosing on them. This is the real estate calculus overlooked by DC. They are politicians and bankers, not real estate agents like me.
Example: Two $550,0000 homes are foreclosed upon and sold to investor for $150,000 each. The four neighbors living in the $350,000 homes walk away because their homes’ value is now only worth half. Their homes sell for just $100,000 so the 8 homeowners living in the $250,000 houses now walk away from their mortgage too. The number of foreclosures is multiplied at each step down of this pricing tier much as it was multiplied at each step up in this pricing tier during the real estate boom.)

7) The higher price keeps lower priced owners in home
(A Higher Price Tier creates equity for Lower Price Tier homes. Refinance $550,000 home for $400,000 and new market price is $400,000 instead of the foreclosed price of just $150,000. However, a lower market price creates next wave of foreclosures because no equity left for lower priced homes either. Real estate’s Tier Down or Tier Up Pricing Principle discussed in next article)

8) Higher price sets ‘Market Bottom’ at a higher Pricing Tier
(THE ‘MARKET BOTTOM’ CAN ONLY BE SET AT THE NEIGHBORHOOD LEVEL, NOT WALL ST. Do you want the ‘market price’ to be what the homeowner can afford to refinance at or at the much lower price the investor will pay for a foreclosed property? We are in a market of dwindling investors.)

9) There is a 30% to 70% greater monetary return refinancing homeowner
(Taxpayers now own these mortgages. Get better returns helping homeowners vs. banks)

10) Properties paid off months or years sooner than foreclosure process
(Many foreclosed properties never resold, so often lose 100% value after taking 6 months or more to complete foreclosure process. Banks, therefore, can only raise 20 cents on the dollar. They have an 80% loss. Refinance the homeowner at 80% and the loss will only be 20%. We will finally come to know where the market bottom has settled and can find the ‘homeowners’ market price months or years sooner than the investors ‘market bottom’ price.)

11) Lower monthly mortgage leaves homeowner more likely to pay on other debts & taxes providing the equivalent of a long term stimulus package.
(Refinancing homeowners with lower monthly mortgage payments will allow them to pay their other bills. This in turn will help all the other distressed industries like credit cards, student & auto loans, local & state taxes, etc. This is a great stimulus package that will last for the entire term of the loan rather the 30 days of the last stimulus package. This stimulus will also lower inflation for it reduces owners’ debt. Homeowners now have 30% less debt while also providing them 30% more in spending power. It may be like offering homeowners a 60% raise. This lower debt ration and higher spending power will strengthen our economy & currency. The dollar rises, gas & food prices fall. In short, we will have reversed this economic downturn.)

12) Foreclosure leaves owner defaulting on all other debts
(Helping the homeowner will help all the country’s other industries. Losing home owner hurts all the other industries. Bailing out these industries separately will not save these industries. The bailout only buys them time.)

13) Entire family also defaults on all other personal debts
(One foreclosure = 4 People defaulting on all their debt obligations: wife, kids, grandma )

14) Greater public support for homeowner then banks
(Finally a program that can win both public & bi-partisan support quickly)

15) ‘Two for one' deal: stabilize banks & real estate market for same $
(Wall Street bailout only buys banks a few months of time while homeowner bailout solves real estate crisis, bank bankruptcies, slumping global economy and squeezed industries.)

Wall Street and Washington have become the fabled Ivory Towers. Both think or at least act as if they are worlds onto themselves wherein success is measured by their well being alone. Hopefully, they will see that their very survival rest entirely on the well being of the country’s everyday American family. Washington’s’ bailout plan is an extreme example of this belief that Wall Street can be helped without the American family. Washington’s plan only raises the cost of this simple lesson. The everyday American is the answer to this great economic riddle and remains the secret of our entire democracy.





rapala11 -> RE: now that the bailout is enacted............. (9/30/2008 12:07:41 AM)

Can't beleive the Democrat controlled house shot it down....Must have been a bad bill....
the dems voted 60-40 in while the repubs voted against it by a majority.  i am not strong into econ, and i guess i see the need for it, but i still wonder why our gov would reward bad behavior.  so i am still confused.  my only concern is that when the house voted, they voted for what they thought was best for the country instead of partisinship or party idealogies....but i know that i am wrong.  these people are making me sick anymore...

as for pelosi, they should promote her to ambassador to north korea or iran.  she is about as genuine as a two headed nickle. 




Page: [1]



   

0.063