Tips, who gets a tip?? (Full Version)

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neaphyte -> Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 8:48:47 AM)

Had a discussion with a guide buddy of mine last night about tips. To make long conversation short here is what we decided. An independent guide working for himself takes you out for a good day/great day/poor day does not get a tip. He is charging you $200-300 taking out expenses and putting the rest in his pocket if it's not suffecient,raise the prices. HOWEVER if you go through a guide service/fly shop with a stable of guides working through the shop you have a good day or bad day the guide gets a tip, becouse you can be sure the fly shop/service is taking 10-20% as a finders fee.   I would normally in that situation throw the guide an extra 20% .Here is my theory, if the owner of a little dinner in town serves you breakfast he does not get a tip, but if the waitress serves you she gets a tip. If the owner of the TV repair shop make a house call {I am old enough to remember that} he gets no tip but if his nephew comes out he gets a tip.  Is everyone following this??  Now how much to tip??  Have a great day, most trout you have ever caught including some monsters. OR You fished all day with nothing to show, no difference when it comes to tipping. Did the guide work hard to get you into fish, was he freindly and knowledgable, did he attempt to make you a better fisherman. That is what to base a tip on. Of course if he puts a 35" chromer in the net for you it's worth  a fifty on the spot.  Let me know if I am off the wall or not, but my buddy "almost" agrees with my theory.



Big Fathead -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 10:54:35 AM)

I think whoever you feel should get a tip should! If I'm very pleased with service anywhere I go and I mean VERY pleased not just they did there job but went above and beyond I do give a tip. I own a business in the service industry so I tend to appreciate honest, hard working people more than the average person. It's so hard to find someone that just does their job that when it's a job well done I feel obligated to give them something extra to show my appreciation. The sign shop that does my lettering for my trucks, yard signs, and boat always cater to me when I call and need something. No matter how busy they are my stuff is done quickly (usually 1 day) I bought the girls there lunch a couple times and left a $20.00 bill a couple times for them to buy lunch. How about the tellers at the bank bought them lunch a couple times and never have a problem with holds on my account(Large Checks) or cashing customers checks there, How about the gas dock attendants at the Marina I throw them a 10 once in a while (It's not there fault the gas is $4.00 a gallon), They see all these boats coming in and I'm sure they would rather be fishing or boating, If you look at a mate on a charter what do they make $50-$80 dollars a day? They bust there butts out there to get you fish and they should get a nice tip, If they don't bust there butt's not only do they not deserve much of a tip but you gotta look a the captain to for having them there. My employees (painters) work in residential homes about 150 or more a year and some people give them a tip and some don't more that don't (this is where I come in to compensate them accordingly and toss them a bone every once in a while (lunch, gift certificates, etc) gotta show your appreciation. Just my thoughts!



Liverache -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 3:08:54 PM)

I guess i'm from a different mind set, if someone is paid a good wage then why do we have to tip, granted there are a few people that depend on tips, the old standards like the waitress and the kids that work delivering the paper and so on but to tip someone for doing their job, not me. That carpenter that put your frame up aint gettin nuthin extra, 15 to 20% extra for a job well done,, THATS WHAT THEY ARE PAID TO DO  



pxatim -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 3:13:50 PM)

Just watch Resevoir Dogs... it's all explained in there.



leadmen -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 3:28:03 PM)

always some one behind the scene ,ive taken guys out and they flip me money they learned something and had a good time many of times we dont know the line worker but its the guy you meet who puts it together sales man or guid you have the same equipment but never used it like that you pay for what you do not know in so many ways



MackJ -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 4:22:25 PM)

I don't use guides, but if they are providing no equipment, taking you out on public water to wade fish and charging more than about $25 per hour of their time, I have to think you are throwing good money after bad tipping.  This said, with any service industry where a tip is customary, I always feel the need to provide 15% for expected service and a bit more or less as the service may have deviated from expectations.  If I ran a guide service, I would charge enough to pay my guides well and INSIST that customers do not tip and instruct my guides to refuse any offers twice before humbly accepting with an extracted promise that the boss not be told. 

For those of you that do use guides, have you ever considered tipping at the beginning of the trip?  I always find that tipping with the first drink when at a bar brings better service the rest of the evening.



indsguiz -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 7:03:02 PM)

neaphyte,
    Regarding tipping;  if the service is good I tip 10%, if the service is very good 15% and if the sevice is outstanding 20%, but this is only for people in the service industry, since most of them depend on tips to even make minimum wage.   But with me there is a flip side if the service is poor I will not only NOT leave a tip, I will complain politely to whatever manager is in charge and (politely) point out were I felt the service was inadequate.  I have been known to get on the phone and call the regional director of certain chain franchises and voice my opinion about poor service, or a badly run or dirty establishment.  When I hire a guide I feel that the guide price is compensation enough unless I have a stellar day.  If I am Elk hunting in Montana and the guide puts me on a 6 X 6 at a decent range then a big tip is coming.  But if the guide shows up intoxicated or hungover and I only see does then . . .!



Screamin Steel -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 10:27:48 PM)

How 'bout this. I would NEVER pay someone to put me on fish. It's called do some homework ahead of time, and learn your own skills and techniques. No one will also ever call me in a bird for money, or bugle me in an elk. Whatever happened to earning your own trophies? Nothing like a fishing guide setting up your rig, coaching your drift, telling you right where the fish are lying, talking you through the fight, netting your fish, taking your smiling picture, and then bragging how big your fish was that the guide practically handed to you gift wrapped. How did your guide get so good? Going on lots of guided trips? This is no different than the hunting guides whose client kills an 180 class whitetail from a stand that was scouted and hung by the guide....not to mention the guide usually dresses and capes the animal as the incompetent has no idea what he's doing. I could have gone to Colorado five years ago and booked a one on one guided elk hunt for guaranteed shot at trophy bulls. Instead I took my chances on my own on public land I'd never seen aside of the maps and aerials. Packed back in several miles and harvested a respectable but not large bull with my bow the fourth day of the hunt. Wonder how much I'd have had to tip the guide to do everything but pull the trigger for me? Our beloved sports have become inundated with incompetent sportsmen who rely on a guide to do what they should be wiling to learn to do themselves. And then we bicker about how much to pay for it?



ready2fish -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 10:44:12 PM)

This is gonna turn interesting[sm=ukliam2.gif]



Skip16503 -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/27/2008 10:48:33 PM)

I have hired a few guides when fishing an unfamiliar area and most times it was worth every penny.....  The only time I have tipped is whenever the guide Performed better then expected.......  One guide in particular got us into fish when no-one else on the lake was doing any good  ....  Got us bragging rights for the week  LOL



Screamin Steel -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 12:30:55 AM)

Let me clarify that I have no beef with the guides themselves. They are merely finding a way to market their skills. Obviously if they weren't very good at what they do, they wouldn't be in business long. My beef is with the guy that can't go fishing or hunting without a guide. In this day and age with the volumes of info available via books, magazines, and esp the internet, you can easily gain suffcient info to get you started on just about any body of water or hunting region. Not to mention volumes of info on fishing tactics, hunting tips, regional reports, etc. This very forum in itself is one reason why I did not need to hire a guide for my first trip to Erie, and still had a very good idea where to go and what to use to find success. Why take all of the adventure out of it by having a guide do that work for me. We can't use the excuse of limited time, because I only get a couple of precious days each year up there. The uncertainty of success is part of the thrill and the challenge, and especially of the satisfaction that you succeeded on your own, without any expert help. From what I've seen, many of the lifetime "clients', have deep pockets...so in effect they are using their money to "buy" an experience, that used to be earned by putting in your time and paying your dues. JM2C.



tankdupp -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 4:42:06 AM)

The owner of a well established Bar and Grill once told me "never tip the owner, because he makes money on every thing in the place". I can also remember going to the steak house with my Dad and hearing him tell the waitress/waiter as soon as we sat down that "Your tip is now $10.00 (or whatever it was) let's see if it's still ten bucks when I'm leaving"



neaphyte -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 10:08:20 AM)

Everybody here makes some good points "This is going to get interesting" was a great remark,I chuckled long and I am still smiling. The edge on this board is worse than ever and I have been participating for almost ten years.   I am not wealthy by any means but when I am going to unfamiliar water theres no better money spent than hiring a well recommended guide for the first day. Remember the days before internet education, you had to actually go outdoors and get wet to learn how,where and when to find fish. Oh well not to be drawn in. I will only say this If your an adult with a career, wife, kids, a house and mortgage and your play time is far less than you would like, optimize your time on the water and support the local economy hire guide once and awhile.  Now back to the original question " when you hire guide how do decide to tip and how much"?  



earlysecond -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 10:08:41 AM)

While my fishing partner and I have the resources (boat on the small side) and now posess all the equiptment, we have recently considered a charter to include some other fisher buddies who we cannot put into the boat with which we recently fished Erie.  This would likely be the only reason we would charter.

On the tip issue.  I am pretty generous at the food service level.  You have to really peeve me off not to get near 20%  I must say that, over the years, I have been privilaged to posess and be able to give away free, some rather nice preimum items (read pens, notepads, coffee mugs, clocks etc)  The clients that I call on are flooded with these items from others who call on them.  I have reserved some of my stash for the people who serve me.  Bank Tellers, convienence store mananagers, the guy who did some vinyl work for me, the guy who fixed my AC, waiters, waitresses. . .these are the people who appreciate these items.

Point is that a little good will opens a lot of doors.  It seems that food, or a meal provided when it was not expected, especially if you stay and eat a piece of pizza, really bonds people to you and they know that you thought highly enough of them to provide something that they do not expect.  I find this most helpful with the people whom I see monthly. 

Would I tip on a charter boat?  I really doubt it unless a captain took the time to walk me through nearly everything that was going on in pretty good detail.  Somebody with the heart of a teacher and a passion for what they do has my admiration!  Is the mate getting a tip (assuming that they were not lazy) that is a big for sure!!

jmho
Brent



bulldog1 -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 1:12:03 PM)

A tip is a direct reflection of the service provided.

I agree with those that have said 15-20% for food service, although the best tip I ever gave a waitress was the advise to not give all big bills back as change. If a customer pays a $40 bill with a $100, and you give 3 $20's back in change you limit his tipping ability (not sure what would have to happen for me to give a 50% tip) - give him 2-$20's, a ten, a fiver and 5 ones. I did give her a 15% tip as well but only because I did have other bills in my pocket. There have been a few times that no tip was deserved and I will usually leave a conspicuously low tip to show my dissatisfaction with service. I REALLY don't like the places that automatically add the tip to the bill, or the ones that split the tips among all of the waitresses.

The few trips that I've done fishing or hunting, I have tipped the mate or the guide for exemplary service.



Brad1 -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 2:07:24 PM)

I probably fall into the "fool and his money . . . " category because I tip almost everybody for anything. Bartender / barmaid, waiter / waitress, the tree service guy I hired, the guy that changed a tire on my motorcycle, the two guys that came to set up my shed I bought from Home Depot, charter boat captains, I buy a gift for my Son's coaches. You name it. Just so long as they did a good job, or gave it a honest try. More related to fishing, I took my two young Sons (6 and 9 at the time) on a 1/2 day charter in Hilton Head, SC. I caught a 90lb Tarpon, and my Sons caught 5 sharks between the two of them. We even had a blast catching the bait fish and feeding the excess to the dolphins. Caught a huge stingray too. My Sons and I had an awesome time. The cost of the trip was just over $400. I gave that captain at least $100 tip. On the flip side, I was in Hawaii two years ago. Booked a sportfishing boat to go offshore fishing by myself. The real captain of the boat didn't show up, he had a fill in captain and a first mate. We left the marina and ran 45 minutes to catch bait fish. Spent another 45 minutes catching about 45 bait fish (a small mackeral called "scad" mackrel). Then we proceeded to troll the remainder of the day using lures. About midway through the day, the captain and 1st mate had been up on the fly bridge for several hours. We had yet to even see a fish. I climbed up to ask them what's going on. They were sound asleep. I took some pics of them snoozing as we were trolling at about 8 kts in 6,000 ft of water. Boat was on autopilot, but didn't have radar. I became the look out while they continued to sleep. We were back at the dock at the scheduled time. Not a single fish. No action what-so-ever except for catching the baitfish. And we didn't even use the baitfish. These jerks didn't even try. Never even changed lures once. I was steamed. Not wanting to get arrested far from home, I paid them the agreed up amount. But that was it. Certainly not a tip. The next day I called the actual captain of the boat and e-mailed the pics to him. He refunded about $150 of my money and sent me a T-shirt from his business.



baby lund -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/28/2008 8:38:24 PM)

I give either nothing or 25%. Just my opinion.



genieman77 -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/30/2008 8:39:57 PM)

Interesting thread.

Like Big Fathead and Brad, I tip everyone and like them, not "just" the ones most traditionally do
I do it cause I "want" to and enjoy it.

I know the dude that picks up my trash every week appreciates it when he gets a "little something" around Christmas time.
I love to see the smile from the gas station attendants  when I buy them candy bars or lottery tickets, etc
The girls at the bank love candy too


tipping a guide would be a no brainer  to "me"
(regardless whether they're an  owner/operator working alone or thru a tackle shop  or a "hired hand")


someone mentioned not allowing their employees or themselves(?) to receive gratuities.
For some reason they must see it as a bad thing???
I can't figure that one out.
Like Big fathead, i own a service biz as well.

Not only are tips  good for  "troop moral" , but more importantly, you very well may OFFEND the giver by refusing a tip.


.l.T.A.



neaphyte -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/31/2008 7:36:46 AM)

Genie, No,a tip is never a bad thing, unless you offend a person by trying ti tip them.  I have done just that. Moving to central Pa, 15 years ago I was rebuked several times when attempting to tip people coming in my home to do elect,plumng,etc .Common response was "Thanks but no, when my job doesn't pay enough I'lll get another job".



pafisher -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (8/31/2008 11:09:05 PM)

neaphyte,those people must be some of the"bitter,gunholding,bible clingers" that Obama was referring to.



Deadbolt401 -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (9/1/2008 1:23:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bulldog1

A tip is a direct reflection of the service provided.
here have been a few times that no tip was deserved and I will usually leave a conspicuously low tip to show my dissatisfaction with service. I REALLY don't like the places that automatically add the tip to the bill, or the ones that split the tips among all of the waitresses.



I've stopped going to places that add gratuity. God damnit I hate that, I was at a place with a few friends and i picked up tab, they added a 20% gratuity to my check, I asked to see the manager, and told him the service wasn't worth a 5 % gratuity. He looked at me and said he didnt him time for this. I left the person a 5 dollar bill and paid the bill, excluding the tip, I was asked to not come back at the door as I left.



indsguiz -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (9/1/2008 3:48:31 PM)

Gentlemen,
Did a little investigating and found out that the word tip  was actually shortened from To Insure Promptness.  And was mosttimes given at the start of service with the rest (gratuity) coming after service was rendered.  The habit came from the habit of "gentlemen having to wait while their carriage was brought around or when in a public house to make sure the waitress/waiter/serving wench (I like that one) would make sure the food for the table was brought promptly so the meal could be consumed while hot/fresh.
   The habit in some public places in England was to keep the patrons waiting while they, the patrons, consumed alcoholic beverages in the hope that they would be semi or wholly intoxicated by the time the food got there and the patrons would eat it not matted how bad it tasted.  ( Been to a really high brow resturant lately?)
    The tip was given by people in a hurry or who didn't have time to waste drinking; to make sure the barmaid would serve him/his party quickly so they could move on down the road.
    So: Tipping was done before service and gratuity (from the root for gratitude) was given after the service if the work was done to the patrons liking.   See the John Wayne movie when he tells the stiff shirt to give a "Gratuity for the boy" after he observed the boy carrying the rich man's suitcase.
    Which brings up the term for "stiffing" a server.  But that's a history lesson for another day.



FiveMilePete -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (9/1/2008 10:25:11 PM)

Should be deadbeat, not deadbolt. You never waited tables, or had a son
or daughter who did?

You essentially stole money from your server, because they will be taxed
at 20%. Nice going. You must be so proud of yourself.



Grendel -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (9/7/2008 11:00:01 AM)

My stance on tipping/gratuitties is one that is not very popular.  My Dad always told me that if the job you're working is not paying enough, then it is time to find one that does.  Guess that explains my migration from Erie to Clearfield.  Some of my OPINIONS:

1.  No one makes a person wait on customers at diners or at bars; a person chose that.  I suspect probably because of the fact that the tipping is GREAT.  Really break it down and you will see that a person can make much more than minimum wage at most eateries and drinking holes.

2.  Gratuities can be a slippery slope.  This is particularly true regarding the "Society at Large" explanation given for police corruption.  Officers see everyone else in society receivbing gratuities and kickbacks, so they reason they should be able to as well.  However, if an officer steps over that line, it is corruption.

3.  As far as Stream Guides are concerned: they get paid a fee to provide a service.  They should honor that.  I do not feel compelled nor obligated to give them a tip for doing the job they are paid to do.  Nobody tips me.

Doc



flyfishermanPA -> RE: Tips, who gets a tip?? (9/7/2008 12:25:49 PM)


pxatim is right watch Reservior Dogs! i don't tip! haha.



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