formerguide
Posts: 1002
Joined: 9/23/2002
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MackJ
I see I have crossed the line by striking too close to the heart of the matter. Well, then my job is done. Count this as one of my contributions, completely volunteer. I am a no-impact angler. I fish on land open to the public by the generosity of landowners or land that is public property. The biggest threat to public access isn't message board information, rather it is angler behavior. If a landowner opens their land to the public and closes it because it is mentioned on a message board even though anglers using the land are respectful and courteous, then I have to wonder why they chose to open it to begin with. If they open their land by private invitation and someone took it upon themselves to invite others, generally, then that person was out-of-line becaue he/she had no right to extend the private invitation. I have no doubt that private land has been posted because of angler discourtesy, littering, etc. The way to prevent this is to educate anglers about no-impact angling and courteous behavior. But as I noted, this is a diversion and departs from the initial statements, for instance, that one should "not ask" how far the fish have traveled "period." How does that impact private property? How does this address angler behavior? It doesn't, but it might impact anglers who are hoping that no one learns too soon that they need not fish in the crowds of the lower reaches.
Wow, you're job is done? Well, congratulations to you! Aren't you just the bell of the ball? Contribution? Well, if you include whining, sef-congratulatory platitudes and non-responsive diatribes a "contribution" then I suppose you've done your duty- I commend you MackJ!
Seriously, let's summarize. You've been called out to list your contributions to this board and to the fishery in general... Response? Nothing. You derided one of the most venerable and generous members of this board, who has, as we ALL know, done more for this fishery than pretty much any other person that I can recall. This is contributing? To what, you're own narcissism? I've read your past posts- talk about self-serving!
Again, I'm more than happy to debate the relative merits, or lack thereof, of my initial post. I've laid out factual evidence, I've given a wealth of useful information, and I have suggested a limit on what should, and should not be appropriate divulgence of information on a public board. You're response seems best summarized as "no one can tell ME what I can and cannot say!!! Spoon feed me information- that's my RIGHT!" Well, again, I have no more say on what is or is not allowed on this board as you do. But I HAVE seen the negative impact that "spot burning" has done to the Erie fishery; I HAVE seen private waters, once open to the public, posted due to SPECIFIC posts on this and other boards; I HAVE seen the negative impact of angler usage on these limited waters. I previously listed 3 SPECIFIC instances- I can list more if you really care to go that route. Upper Walnut on ******* rd- used to be a terrific spot- it was touted on the reports page numerous times a few years ago- subsequently, that spot was inundated with anglers, and promptly posted by the landowner (and who can blame him!) You see MackJ, it's about responsibility- a responsibility to the landowners, the resource, and to your fellow anglers. You've been on this board 10 months? Are you truly so arrogant as to assume that you have nothing to learn from others here?
So here's the deal- you fail to see the harm in public posts- I (and most others, as you can clearly see!) know that to be wrong, and strongly disagree with you. I will personally take you to a spot that I fish a bit. It is on private land, but is not (as of now) posted due to the generousity of the landowner. I've seen maybe 3 other anglers at one time ever on this spot, due entierly to the fact that no one knows about it (there are still PLENTY of secrets in the Erie watershed...) We'll fish, talk about the resource, and maybe learn a little form each other. Now, after having fished this out-of -the-way spot, you tell me- should you post about it online? What would that do to this particular spot? You see, the RESPONSIBILITY of divulging this specific spot will be on you. Would it be appropriate to mention it on this, or any other public forum? I'll even introduce you to the landowner- he's a helluva guy- then, if you decide to post about it here, you can personally go back and tell him why you did so- perhaps you can help him tack the NO TRESPASSING signs on his trees too, while you're at it. Again, is this getting through to you? It's not a matter of what you feel is "fair" or that everyone should have equal access to some sort of general knowledge base; it's a matter of stewardship and responsibility.
As far as your inital argument of "self serving" posts, let's examine that for a second. It no one followed the ideas that I put forth, or if everyone adheres to them, it would make zero difference to me. I don't fish the waters mentioned here; I don't follow the reports page, this forum, or any other online entity when deciding where to fish. So it can hardly be self serving, if it matters not a whit to me and my fishing... However, it WOULD allow all to benefit from reports that give good, solid information, without divulging SPECIFIC AREAS of entry. Again, why would you, myelf, or anyone else need to know more? The "equal playing field" that you seem so obsessed with would be just that- EQUAL! You truly think it is a bad thing to reward hard work and effort? A little walking and exploring is detrimental? In your world, apparently, information would be free for all, despite whatever negative impact it might have, because, by golly, no one is going to tell YOU what to say! Self serving? Look in the mirror my friend... It's a sign of respect that many people seem to not recognize (yourself included...) Everyone can be a novice, and seek out help- I've helped out more people on this site and others than you will in a veritable lifetime... But I also expect them to think, to work, to put forth a modicum of effort. And that IS a sign of respect, that I should expect the same from others that I would ask of myself. You, on the other hand, seem to subscribe to the "me, me, me, give me more" attitude that, quite frankly, is far too prevalent in our society. As trite as it might sound, the "Give a man a fish...teach a man to fish" proverb is quite applicable here. If you learn something for yourself, you will be far better off, and ultimately more profficient, than if you are spon fed information. Asking people to get out and explore is beneficial to all, not just a few as you suggest.
So again, what have YOU contributed? Would you divulge the spot I will take you to, after having met the landowner, and then take responsibility both to him (face-to-face) and to the public? You've been exposed as the hypocrite and the charlatan that you clearly are- but I offer it to you- do you care to learn? Can you evolve, as an angler and a steward? I will take you to this spot if you care to do so- I will also show you numerous posted spots, and perhaps meet a few of the landowners who have posted their land too. PM me if you're interested...
Dan
PS- People like Bughawk, Indguiz, Spoonchucker and others, would likely do the same- these are good people, interested in protecting the resource, catching fish, helping others, and having a good time- I hope that one day, you can say the same.
< Message edited by formerguide -- 8/8/2008 9:28:08 AM >
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RE: Some thoughts on steelheading and the upcoming seas... - 
