govt. bails out aig.....

govt. bails out aig.....

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govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 10:21:32 AM

rapala11

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kicked in 84 billion to save them. after rescuing banks and mortgage houses and insurance companies, (read where the ceos and boards of some of these failed companies still receive their bonuses). wonder where we are getting the money to invest in businesses?

i just know that the gov. will not let social security fail now.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 12:51:30 PM

earlysecond

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Unfortunatley, if you are 40 or older, like me, I believe that there is little help, even before, Freddie, Fannie, AIG and the proposed big 3 automaker bail out, that we would ever receive ANY of what we paid in. Look at the statistics on how many workers support how many retirees and how that has changed in the last 30 yrs.

Again, SS was another failed "saftey net" that became a sick entitlement. When gvt. hands out the money that they have "witheld" from your paycheck. . .you have no control over where or to whom it is "redistributed".

I am really concerned with all that is going on. I need to go out now and bury more Kregurands!

Bye.
Brent

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Post #: 2

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 12:57:48 PM

Bughawk

Posts: 5912
Status: online

The problem with social security is not that the recipients are robbing the system, is the Congress that have been spending the money like drunken sailors.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 1:30:03 PM

jon_e_si

Posts: 339
Joined: 5/4/2006
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Cris Dodd wrote the bill for Fanny/Freddie bail-out! Note the others: (It will be interesting to see who wrote the one for AIG!!! ???

Top Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008

Name

Office

Party/State

Total

1. Dodd, Christopher J

S

D-CT

$133,900

2. Kerry, John

S

D-MA

$111,000

3. Obama, Barack

S

D-IL

$105,849

4. Clinton, Hillary

S

D-NY

$75,550

5. Kanjorski, Paul E

H

D-PA

$65,500

6. Bennett, Robert F

S

R-UT

$61,499

7. Johnson, Tim

S

D-SD

$61,000

8. Conrad, Kent

S

D-ND

$58,991

9. Davis, Tom

H

R-VA

$55,499

10. Bond, Christopher S 'Kit'

S

R-MO

$55,400

11. Bachus, Spencer

H

R-AL

$55,300

12. Shelby, Richard C

S

R-AL

$55,000

13. Emanuel, Rahm

H

D-IL

$51,750

14. Reed, Jack

S

D-RI

$50,750

15. Carper, Tom

S

D-DE

$44,389

16. Frank, Barney

H

D-MA

$40,100

17. Maloney, Carolyn B

H

D-NY

$38,750

18. Bean, Melissa

H

D-IL

$37,249

19. Blunt, Roy

H

R-MO

$36,500

20. Pryce, Deborah

H

R-OH

$34,750

21. Miller, Gary

H

R-CA

$33,000

22. Pelosi, Nancy

H

D-CA

$32,750

23. Reynolds, Tom

H

R-NY

$32,700

24. Hoyer, Steny H

H

D-MD

$30,500

25. Hooley, Darlene

H

D-OR

$28,750

(in reply to Bughawk)

Post #: 4

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 2:02:18 PM

pappy69

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The financial devistation that would have occured if AIG had not been secured by the government would have been similar to the stock market crash of '29. The financial ruin, still within the realm of possibility, would affect people people from every walk of life, not just highend CEOs. Retired people with annuities would have been hard pressed to regain investments, and young people trying to establish retirement accounts would be frustrated right from the get-go. Bailing out AIG was the right thing to do.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 2:22:06 PM

LDD

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I think you're right Pappy, but I guess my question is "where does it end?" and where do we draw the line.

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Post #: 6

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 2:39:20 PM

elephanthead

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Pappy, while I'm not in favor of bailouts, the last 2 days for my wife & I very nerve wracking. She retired in June and rolled over a hefty sum into American General (under AIG blanket). We finally got things defined for us today after hours on conf. calls and meetings w/our advisors. Here's hoping we made the right decisions. I retire in June... And you're right about who AIG affects. With a little research it sure blew me away. It would've been a bloodbath had they gone under. Holding my breath in Washington, Pa. Dave

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Post #: 7

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 2:58:13 PM

Bughawk

Posts: 5912
Status: online

Pappy is definitely correct. The effect of AIG going down could have triggered a collapse of the entire economic system and lead to a depression, which some would say would make the great depression look like a picnic. This country is way more trouble than we think and it pretty much goes back to one thing, GREED.

< Message edited by Bughawk -- 9/17/2008 3:46:40 PM >

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 3:28:44 PM

LDD

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I'm glad that things have seemingly worked out for you Dave. I hope that everything goes well. I'm sure you and your wife have worked hard and you deserve a comfortable retirement. But, you don't need me to tell you that. Good luck...Josh

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Post #: 9

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 3:50:51 PM

kyler16

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From: formally johnstown currently Salix
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I dont understand why the government had to step in AIG sponsors the most popular Football(soccer) club in the world. Manchester United. how would it be possible to be bankrupt and need government help and be able to help fun a hundred billion dollar team like that?

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 6:20:24 PM

jonnyfishon

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Joined: 2/7/2008
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Why blame the bush clan not that they are for big buiness, the care about the little guy. For all those people that want to call me a liberal, so be it. I told you so. Real gov. regulations would have prevented this but nooooo lets go big buiness. You can take your tricle down economics and shove it up your arse. I blame the ceos and our ceo(bush) for all that is comming.

< Message edited by jonnyfishon -- 9/17/2008 6:21:19 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 10:30:17 PM

spoonchucker

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"Cris Dodd wrote the bill for Fanny/Freddie bail-out! Note the others: (It will be interesting to see who wrote the one for AIG!!! ??? "

There WAS no AIG bill. The action was taken by the federal reserve. Congress had no say in it.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 11:15:52 PM

jon_e_si

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They showed Cris Dodd on the news with paper in hand "as sponsor"! I didn't think too much about it at the time, until I found out he was the recipient of their largest political donation! Congress has "power of the purse" not the President!

If you got a lot of time - digest this - me I'm getting ready to go fishing. Unfortunately, when I get back, there will be more of the same from Washington (both sides) - we need a good house cleaning in D.C.!!

The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 established the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) in the United States and included banking reforms, some of which were designed to control speculation.[citation needed] Some provisions such as Regulation Q that allowed the Federal Reserve to regulate interest rates in savings accounts were repealed by the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980. Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999 by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act signed by William J. Clinton.[

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 11:18:53 PM

jon_e_si

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I originally referred to Fannymae/Freddymac & Dodd!
He's their biggest recipient - sorry for any confusion

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Post #: 14

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 11:23:42 PM

spoonchucker

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jon,

As i posted on the other thread, it was Phil Gramm (REPUBLICAN) who WROTE and sponsored the repeal. The vote was 362-57 in the REPUBLICAN controlled house, and 90-8 in the REPUBLICAN controlled senate ( including a yea vote by McCain). Yet you seem determined to somehow put it all on Clinton.

Funny, I've heard nothing but anti-regulation nonsense from you guys for years. You tout McCain ( and so does he ) as the de-regulator. Yet you want to blame the current CRISES on de-regulation by Clinton.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/17/2008 11:26:45 PM

spoonchucker

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"They showed Cris Dodd on the news with paper in hand "as sponsor"!

Actually it was Bush's treasury secretary Paulson, who requested the autority to take them over. The bill you speak of gave him that authority, if it becasme necessary. PAULSON, and the fed, made the actual decision to take them over.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/18/2008 1:02:48 AM

jon_e_si

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I said both sides - Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act - don't know who Leach & Bliley are - but from the resounding vote it would appear the good old boys wanted to open the flood gates!

By the way, I'm a Democrat, middle name - Franklin - for FDR who used to ride with my Dad, when he campaigned, but I'm not a tax and spend Democrat! None of us can run our households and personal finances the way they do in Washington and again, Congress has the power of the purse!

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Post #: 17

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/18/2008 4:41:57 AM

earlysecond

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Joined: 11/24/2007
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Spoon,

While I am no fan of the Bush Administration (far too liberal for me)!

Check out who began these two agencies.

Now check out who benefited the most by stealing Fred and Fannie blind

Now do a search on Franklin Raines (sp unsure)

Just because everything in the beginning of the programs has Clintion (proudly in his estimation) written all over it. . .just because Obama has Raines on his Campaign team does not mean that the scandal is a Democrat Party scandal.

Both sides of the 2 party system are to blame. Both have cronies who were retired to these agencies for previous favors performed.

Take a dollar bill, hold it up in front of you and look at it. now rip it apart, somewhere between the middle and out near where the inside edge of the 1 symbol. If your dollar 2 weeks ago was the whole bill. . .then your dollar now is what is left after you rip it and discard the small piece.

The "take over" (read bail out) of these 2 institutions and other recent bail outs, combinded with todays AIG bail out, partially a result of the aforementioned "take over" have cost the American Tax payer an estimated 800BILLION dollars. It does not bother the govenrment officals, it better dang well bother the "government" who is really us with the sorry asses we have either voted for or allowed to be elected due to our apathy.

It has been said that greed is the root. I must agree. Greed of elected officials as well as those in the private sector. I do not trust either of the current two parties to fix this or any other problem that they have created. We helped them by our inaction, don't misunderstand.

Next in line are the big 3 automakers who are highly competitive in the overseas market but are losing money here, largely due to crazy Cafe standards. At least they only expect 50Billion. . .who can blame them everybody else, in the past weeks, with their hand out has gotten what they requested, be it private or govenment entities.

Crazy, scary world.
Brent

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Post #: 18

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/18/2008 6:05:06 AM

waDerboy

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Why am I expected to pay to bail out these companies which I don't run, own or even have an investment in? Why are the political conservatives not howling to let the capitalistic free market system take care of it?
My mortgage is a fixed rate (yes it cost a little more when I decided on it) for the next 20 years so my loan is not at risk. I didn't buy more than I could afford. I wasn't greedy. I pay my bills. Why should I pay for it so others that made bad decisions can get out from under scot free?

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/18/2008 7:42:37 AM

griffon

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"Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country"

If AIG goes under, the financial implications and consequences will be catastrophic to our economy. It behooves everyone of us to make sure that they remain alive.

I am in much the same shape as you Wader, but I realize that everyone may have to make sacrifices for the greater good. We are on the brink of some very rough times and I am afraid that if we go into a depression rivaling that of the 20's, noone will be safe, regardless of how smart they were with their money.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/18/2008 8:04:01 AM

indsguiz

Posts: 2015
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: online

wader,
Your feelings reflect the majority feelings of many people today. The thing about all these bailouts is that the people who perpetrated the fraud and mismanagement are the same ones who ae still allowed to keep their inflated paychecks. I'd like to se them charged and forced to work for: oh, what the average person on social security gets till all the loan is paid back. That could be their punishment And the government wanted to privatize S.S. using these lending institutions as examples. Yeah ! right! On top of allthe other largess the government is doing I just read that the federal government is going to back the insurance for those rich people who build outside the seawall on galveston. They built where they shouldn't have and we get to save them. The Corps of Engineers is actually going to dredge sand up to replace the beaches where the houses were so they can rebuild. This county is going nutso. If they want to rebuild the bridges to prevent erosion then great but it sould be declared a no build zone, replant it with dune grass and let it revert to what it should be.
Heck if someone builds a house in a constant flood plain in PA does anybody bail them out?

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/18/2008 8:47:31 AM

Bughawk

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One of the main reasons the Federal Reserve took over AIG was the bond insurance AIG was writing. Basically, AIG was insuring banks and lending agencies for bonds they were holding in case the bonds bellied up. What the main fear is that if the bonds are not insured, banks would shut down the bond market and this would literally freeze up the world economy. Once the money flow stops, the economy will collapse.

The big issue now is irrational fear leading to runs on banks, retirement funds, massive stock sell offs, etc... What is needed is confidence in the system and stability. It was the opinion of the Federal Reserve that stepping in and backing AIG demonstrates the confidence of the US govt.

We can all argue who is to blame for the mess we are in and there is plenty to go around. What we need to do is stop the partisan bickering and find a way out of this. Deregulation did not work, but govt control is no assurance problems will not develop either. The issue is personal responsibility and how the choices each of us makes will impact others. We have people crying for the heads of those who were running the big cooperations, but this whole mess started with people like you and me deciding to borrow more than we can afford, to buy things we don't need but we want and our desire to have it all except the means to pay for it. Several years ago I remember listening to a commentator saying when asked about the govt deficient and how it would impact the economy. He said while the growing deficit was a problem, the real problem was personal debt the people of America had would be the downfall of the economy. Sure sounds like that guy was right on the money.

Credit is what keeps the economy going, but irresponsible use of credit is what we are dealing with. We can blame a system that allows people to make bad decisions, but I would doubt many would want a society where you do not have the freedom to make choices. Honestly, I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that each of us can control our own choices. Beyond that we have to trust that others will do likewise.

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/19/2008 4:09:29 AM

waDerboy

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Thanks guys. I knew the answer when I posted before. Just onemore time that we little ants get to save the grasshopper's ace again.
Hard to teach my son to be financialy coservative and live within his means when he see people aquiring every toy they want and then declaring bankrupcy and now this.

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Post #: 23

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/19/2008 6:11:13 AM

spoonchucker

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The SEC issued an emergency ban on "short selling". Talk about a day (years) late, and several billion dollars short.

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Post #: 24

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/19/2008 3:28:10 PM

bingsbaits

Posts: 950
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From: spartansburg,pa
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I see with recent bailouts the total to us taxpayers is going up. Last count it is going to cost every American $8500 each to save these businesses..
I'm so far down the economic food chain all the Wall Street stuff has no bearing on my finances..Can't loose what you don't have....

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Post #: 25

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/19/2008 11:49:19 PM

rapala11

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lost my pension already, lost my 401k already. guess they can have my cat and one of my chainsaws to help the cause.

btw, whatever happened to laissez-faire?

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RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/20/2008 12:12:04 PM

elephanthead

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thanks Josh, after the first of the week all my hair is gray but after 2 days on the big pond rippin eyes it all is in perspective. back home in the real world we'll survive and decided to sign up for retirement @ the end of the year instead of June/July. LIFE IS TOO SHORT.............Dave

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Post #: 27

RE: govt. bails out aig..... - 9/22/2008 7:58:47 PM

LDD

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