flurocarbon tippet

flurocarbon tippet

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flurocarbon tippet - 8/11/2008 9:37:03 PM

flirod4evr

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My question is about rio floroflex plus and seauger grand max. I have fished and caught fish with both. They are both very strong and I am going to use one or the other this year for steelhead. They are the two best on the market I feel due to their knot strength. The only thing I don't know about them is which one is more limp? This is the final factor in deciding. I am leaning toward the rio due to the 2 or 3 dollars less with the extra few yards than the seauger. Again I have fished them both and both have caught me many steel and pellet heads alike I was thinking that the seauger was a bit more limp but I used the rio more recently and can't seem to remember. All help is appreciated.

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Post #: 1

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/11/2008 10:58:09 PM

KJH807

Posts: 964
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i love the rio... for what its worth

(in reply to flirod4evr)

Post #: 2

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 7:08:58 AM

casts_by_fly

Posts: 2574
Joined: 10/18/2000
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grandmax was my goto tippet until I started with frog's hair. I like the smaller spools and limper line of frogs hair.

Don't know rio.

thanks,
rick

(in reply to KJH807)

Post #: 3

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 8:05:52 AM

formerguide

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Agree with Rick- Frog's Hair flouro is my favorite, though RIO and Seaguar are both fine too. Really, aside from some cheap "off" brand fluoro, I think that they're all OK, and even the off brands are probably fine too. But I always go with Frog's Hair- like the suppleness of it, and the guide spools (100yds) are great.
Dan

(in reply to casts_by_fly)

Post #: 4

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 10:23:21 AM

Bughawk

Posts: 5940
Status: online

I go back and forth with fluorocarbon leaders. I have used just about all of them at one point and have mixed success. They all work and they all break. Personally, I have been using McCoy Mean Green for tippet material the last couple of years and in my opinion it has performed as well if not better than the fluorocarbons. I find it to be stronger, holds a better knot and is waaayyyyyyy cheaper than any of the fluorocarbons. Most of the time I use 6 lb test and will drop to 4 lb in very low and clear and go up to 8 lb if the water is high and rolling.

One thing to always remember is no matter what tippet material you are using, CHANGE it often. The more you fish, the more it weakens from wear and tear and will usually break at the most inappropriate time.

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Post #: 5

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 10:29:29 AM

tommybanzai

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are you fly or spin fishing?

My thoughts: I bought some of that overly expensive seaguar grand max last year...and don't like it at all (unless i got a bad spool)...stick with plan Seagur floro leader material and you wil be fine.....or even save yoursefl more money and just buy a spool of 250yd p-line floro for 8-10 bucks

(in reply to Bughawk)

Post #: 6

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 10:34:37 AM

Bughawk

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I mainly fly fish, but do some spin and drift fishing as the mood strikes me and the conditions dictate.

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RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 10:41:03 AM

pxatim

Posts: 988
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From: dahn rahn ah rocks
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Are you guys using your tippet material as a leader attached to your fly line. Or are you using a heavier line attached to your fly line and only using a couple feet of tippet material.

I know there's different ways of doing it. I've bought some 4lb leader material and tied on 7-8' to my fly line but had trouble casting. Was it because I was using 8wt fly line with a 4lb leader? I've bought tapered leaders and didn't have a problem with it. Didn't know if I should start with a 6lb section then tie on the 4lb to the end of that....

I think I just confused myself

(in reply to Bughawk)

Post #: 8

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:07:52 PM

formerguide

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pxatim

Are you guys using your tippet material as a leader attached to your fly line. Or are you using a heavier line attached to your fly line and only using a couple feet of tippet material.

I know there's different ways of doing it. I've bought some 4lb leader material and tied on 7-8' to my fly line but had trouble casting. Was it because I was using 8wt fly line with a 4lb leader? I've bought tapered leaders and didn't have a problem with it. Didn't know if I should start with a 6lb section then tie on the 4lb to the end of that....

I think I just confused myself

ALWAYS use a std tapered leader- otherwise, you can't get your leader and flies to turn over... I usually take a RIO 9' 3x leader, cut it in half, then add 5 ft of tippet for a 10' leader overall. Better turnover, and the thinner tippet simks faster than a reg tapered leader... need to tie good knots though...

Dan

(in reply to pxatim)

Post #: 9

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:12:17 PM

D-nymph

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I like Rio fluro.

I also use leaders like formerguide said. Rio 3x. But I usually buy the 7 1/2 foot ones, and use the whole thing. Once it nibbles down to 4 or 5 feet long, after re-tying tippet, I use a new one.

(in reply to formerguide)

Post #: 10

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:13:29 PM

pxatim

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From: dahn rahn ah rocks
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That makes alot more sense.

What knot are you using to connect your lines? Blood, Surgeons, Albright?

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Post #: 11

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:15:05 PM

D-nymph

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Blood knot.

I hate tying them, but they work great.

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Post #: 12

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:20:39 PM

pxatim

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From: dahn rahn ah rocks
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I was afraid you were going to say that...haha

I started learning that knot by using rope and working my way down to fishing line. They're still a pain in the ass though.

(in reply to D-nymph)

Post #: 13

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:22:57 PM

formerguide

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Upside down double suregeon's- sometimes called an Orvis knot- use this on all of my freshwater rigs...

Salt, I use blood knots

(in reply to pxatim)

Post #: 14

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:32:30 PM

Bughawk

Posts: 5940
Status: online

I use both the blood knot and the double uni-knot. I like the uni-knot because it is simple and very strong. For leader material, I usually use a standard tapered leader, a 9 foot. I have used a braided leader and liked it. Last year I switched to a fast sinking leader when fishing deep holes. At first I did not really like it, but with time I got better at fishing it. The advantage is that you don't need to use as much split shot to get the flies down. I particularly like to use the sinking leader with streamers and tube flies.

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Post #: 15

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:48:30 PM

flirod4evr

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For tippet to leader I use the double surgeons knot, it is stronger and easier to tie with cold fingers. The blood knot looks a bit nicer though and uses a bit less on the tag ends. For tippet to fly I use the orvis knot, its a litter stronger than the clinch but a little bit harder to tie with cold fingers. I have some rio 4x left from the spring I think I will buy some seageur 5x and try them both and see.

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I'm very familiar with the terms "RUN AND GUN" and "FISH ON!"

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Post #: 16

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 12:54:17 PM

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Joined: 11/21/2005
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I can see using a good tippet material for casting dries under technical conditions, but you can get away with any type flouro tied directly to your fly line for steelies. You don't need it to lay down nice - just chuck and duck fishihng with weight 99% of the time. Why pay the tippet price..?

(in reply to flirod4evr)

Post #: 17

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 1:11:26 PM

MackJ

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It seems that most steelhead fly fishing, perhaps excepting low and clear conditions, involves enough weight and possibly a strike indicator so that leader taper will have little effect on the cast. Though I use a tapered leader because it is on my line, I tend to agree that a piece of sufficiently strong mono or flouro attached directly to the fly line will allow one to present the fly just as well as the most sophisticated leader formula.

(in reply to TB)

Post #: 18

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 1:16:18 PM

casts_by_fly

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TB,

Because tippet is stronger and more supple for diameter than bulk packaged filler fluoro. If you look closely, you'll see that bulk pack fluoro also varies in diameter along a given length much more than tippet. Tippet is incredibly uniform which means you can make it thinner on a production average with tighter tolerances and still maintain quality. That is also what drives the cost up.

Yes, you can use bulk pack fluoro as a straight leader and it works just fine. However, a tapered leader does help to turn over the flies and shot much better than a straight leader which helps to prevent tangles and wind knots.

Thanks
Rick

(in reply to TB)

Post #: 19

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 1:21:21 PM

formerguide

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The problems with just using tippet tied to the end of your fly line are several, though it can work too, just not as readily...

With just tippet, you'll get more knots because of the limpness of the tippet material, especially if using an indy and a lot of weight. Also, in the end, it's more expensive, because you may break off all the way at the line/tippet junction often, necessitating tying on an additional (9, 10) feet of tippet... When using a leader with just 2 or 3 (or 5) feet of tippet, you'll only break off at the leader/tippet junction. Also, it really is easier to get a btter drift with a leader with a heavier butt section, but those returns may be negligible for the beginner.

But it's definitley easier and cheaper to use a leader- also, putting an indicator in the thinner tippet makes it far more likely to spin, as opposed to putting your leader in the thicker mid-section of a tapered leader.

The best indy- rig I know is a 9' leader, cut in half- tie a small water ballon at the end of it, using just a std clinch know above the knot on the balloon. Now, tie your tippet AROUND the leader using an improved clinch- the tippet will slide down until it hits the ballon. This way, the thinner tippet drops like a rock, keeping you in the zone longer- also, the disparity between the theck leader and the thin tippet allows the rig to "hinge" keeping you in better contact with your flies (in essence, the inidcator stays more vertical over the flies throughout the drift...)

It's hard to explain- I'l try and take some photos sometime and post 'em...

Dan

(in reply to MackJ)

Post #: 20

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 1:38:33 PM

Stillhead

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I like perfection loops. I'll use a tapered leader butt section then tippet off that, with perfection loops I can usually get an entire season out of 1 tapered leader butt section, as you only have to retie the loop on the heavy end of the butt section occassionally. It's also the strongest in my opinion, I don't know how the different knots actually test strenght wise. But I do know that I started using this knot 3 years ago, and I still haven't had it break 1 time on me. I also use it for tying leader onto my spinning rods. I can't even remember how to tie the other knots anymore.

< Message edited by Stillhead -- 8/12/2008 1:42:16 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 1:55:09 PM

formerguide

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stillhead

I like perfection loops. I'll use a tapered leader butt section then tippet off that, with perfection loops I can usually get an entire season out of 1 tapered leader butt section, as you only have to retie the loop on the heavy end of the butt section occassionally. It's also the strongest in my opinion, I don't know how the different knots actually test strenght wise. But I do know that I started using this knot 3 years ago, and I still haven't had it break 1 time on me. I also use it for tying leader onto my spinning rods. I can't even remember how to tie the other knots anymore.

This is also a nice system- for some reason, a lot of people have problems tying perfection loops- they don't get them "squared" up correctly, if that makes sense (ie, the loop will turn off at a 45 degree angle from the line...)

I tie knots all of the time- drives my wife crazy, there's always pieces of mono, half-tied biminins and little tag ends all around our living room... only wya to get better is to practice!

Dan

(in reply to Stillhead)

Post #: 22

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/12/2008 2:11:00 PM

pxatim

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From: dahn rahn ah rocks
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Yeah I love the perfection knot. I have Orvis Wonderline fly line so it's has the loop built into the end. Perfect for a perfection knot. I like the idea of using a tapered leader as a butt section and tieing tippet material to the end. I don't know why I didn't think if that. Now it hurts to think of how many "butt" sections of line I've thrown away.

Oh well.. still learning.

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Post #: 23

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/13/2008 2:02:12 PM

anadromous

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I used 12lb Rio fluroflex PLUS for browns in NY...Someone recommended 9.2lb grand max and I like it too...the key key is exactly what Bughawk said...change your tippet often. I like the frog hair and Beartooth for normal trout fishing.

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Post #: 24

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/14/2008 12:26:19 AM

Sage4wt

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I have used the Rio and Frog's Hair flouro and like both. Has anyone used the Orvis Max Knot? I was thinking about going with that this year.

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Post #: 25

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/14/2008 1:15:07 AM

fishmonger

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Joined: 10/10/2005
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Nobody mentioned Vanish. I have lost many a fish using Vanish in cold water. I pretty much taper my own leaders, with the butt end of Maxima Chameleon, then a flourocarbon tippet, such as Rio or Frog Hair. I generally tie a double surgeons knot, but in the heat of battle, I will simply tie loops and clinch knots to keep a line in the water.

Fishmonger

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Post #: 26

RE: flurocarbon tippet - 8/14/2008 4:42:08 AM

Stillhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sage4wt

I have used the Rio and Frog's Hair flouro and like both. Has anyone used the Orvis Max Knot? I was thinking about going with that this year.

I've used the original Orivis Mirage Fluorocarbon for the last several years. By their own admission (the label on the spool), the original Mirage is stronger per diameter than this new stuff, and cheaper. The Max Knot sounds like a bunch of bull to me. I've never had a problem with the original Mirage, It's basically the same as Seaguar Grand Max (I'd bet it is the same stuff, with a different labe, don't know for sure about that, but I bet it is).

Haven't tried the "max knot" yet, but it looks to me for just a way to raise the price of their fluorocarbon. I hope they continue to make the original Mirage for the same price.

(in reply to Sage4wt)

Post #: 27

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