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changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 10:33:03 AM   
doubletaper


Posts: 1025
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline
think I will vote Democrat because. . .


I'm brilliant !!!
 
 

I'm voting Democrat because: I believe the government 
will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. 
  
I'm voting Democrat because: I believe white people need 
to spend their time at the back of the bus. 

 
I'm voting Democrat because: I believe three or four pointy headed 
elitist liberals need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who would NEVER get their agendas past the voters. 
  
I'm voting Democrat because: I believe oil companies' profits of 4% on a gallon of gas are obscene but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15% isn't. 
 
I'm voting Democrat because: I believe that paying $4.00 a gallon or more is no reason to drill for the mountain of oil we are  sitting on in THIS country. We wouldn't want to have to move a couple of  Polar bears now would we? 

I'm voting Democrat because: when we pull out of Iraq, I trust that the  bad guys will stop what they're doing because they now 
think we're good  people. 
  
I'm voting Democrat because: I like it when planes fly into buildings full of civilians. I want to see more of that. 

I'm voting Democrat because: I don't want a stimulus check to spend. Let the government spend it for me. 

I'm voting Democrat because: freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. 

 
I'm voting Democrat because: I love the fact that I can  now marry 
whatever I want. I'm going to marry my Brother. 

I'm voting Democrat because: I'm not concerned about the slaughter of millions of babies so long as we keep all death row inmates alive. 
  
I'm voting Democrat because: I don't want to eat poison food and drink dirty water. We all know Republicans love that stuff. Ever 
wonder why  the most left wing country in the World (China ) is the 
most polluted? 

I'm voting Democrat because: I believe that when the terrorists don't have to hide from us over there, when they come over here I don't want to have any guns in the house to fight them off with. 

 
 I'm voting Democrat because: I believe that churches should only be  allowed for political speeches. 

I'm voting Democrat because: I believe that business should not be  allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give  the rest away to the employees. 

I'm voting Democrat because: I believe that I don't want Doctors who were  at the top of their classes to operate on me. I want a government employee who makes $50k a year and couldn't

hack it as  a contractor or an engineer. 
 
I'm voting Democrat because: I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday CAN tell us that the polar ice caps will melt  away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. 

I'm voting Democrat because: I REALLY believe there is  no bias in the
media. I'm All for CHANGE!!!

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent
Post #: 1
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 11:39:21 AM   
joebaker79

 

Posts: 1542
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: offline
Jesus man relax.  Take a pill.  Extremist isnt even the right word.  I know many republicans that would beg to differ with most if not all of your points.  No one group or party can control everything in this country.  Read up on how the government works.  Checks and balances.  Both parties and idividuals have done terrible things, both have done great things.  You're attitude is more like a Steeler fan harping on the Browns.  Politics doesnt have to be like that.  Look at all the issues. 

Most importantly, freaking chill.  Go fishing.  And think a little more about the stuff you're saying.  Specifically that democrats want to see planes flying into buildings.  You lost all credibility there.  That way of thinking is scarier than anyone I can think of being in office. 

(in reply to doubletaper)
Post #: 2
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 11:42:41 AM   
Liverache

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 8/16/2006
Status: online
OMG,, please dont let rockhard see this post, thats enough ammo to keep him going for ummmm!!! a week

(in reply to doubletaper)
Post #: 3
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 11:46:26 AM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5889
Status: offline
Me too.

I'm gonna vote republican.

Because the "bottom line" is far more improtant than the health, and safety of a company's employees, or custumers.

Because I want some insurance exec to decide what medical treatment I need. After all what does my doctor know about how it fits on the balance sheet.

Because depending on a single entity for my energy needs is a GOOD thing.

Because I don't believe in the constitutional role of the supreme court ( unless it rules in MY favor ). Guys like you should decide who get rights, and who doesn't.

Because I don't like clean air, or water.

Because working at McCee Dee's at $6.00 per hour is MUCH better than a mfg job at $18.00 per hour

Because the church SHOULD dictate social policy. But only if it's MY church.

Because your children, and grandchildren SHOULD pay for my lifetyle today.

Because fixing highways, bridges, dams, and levees is just wasteful pork barrel spending.

Because America is not only great, but perfect. And we need to shove that fact down the throats of all other nations.

Because govt. contractors that provide services to our military personnel, or do re-construction work SHOULDN'T be required to give us what we paid for. In fact as long as they make a profit, we should give them more contacts.

Because it makes sense to go to war with one country, while our enemy is in another.

Because the next time Ford decides the cost of the resulting lawsuits, will be less than the cost of fixing the defect, there should be caps so they can do it accurately.

Because I NEED a gun to protect myself from drug addicts. Since our resources are going to re-build what we blew up, and policing the streets of Baghdad, rather than on interdiction, treatment, and policing MY streets.

Because spending $30.000 to keep folks in jail, is MUCH better than paying $14,000 to educate them.

Because if Jim marries Bob, SOMEHOW my marriage will become meaningless, and be destroyed.

Because having a handful of lobbyists weild more influence on our leaders than the electorate, is a GOOD thing.

Because we are a "christian" nation, and Jesus WANTS us to spend more on developing ways to kill our fellow man, than on ways to help them live, and live better.

Because even if torturing suspects doesn't extract reliable information, it makes me feel better. Besides, it makes us SO much more CREDIBLE, when we chastise other nations on THEIR human rights record.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to doubletaper)
Post #: 4
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 11:51:52 AM   
doubletaper


Posts: 1025
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline
ah, i was just stirring the pot a little with an e-mail i recieved!
crazy stuff that goes around the internet..

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 5
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 11:59:06 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline
Pistols at 10 paces fellows?

(in reply to doubletaper)
Post #: 6
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 12:05:57 PM   
STEELYS MANFISH

 

Posts: 263
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline
"Because your children, and grandchildren SHOULD pay for my lifetyle today."


Thats all u needed to say right there. sum it all up into that quote.

< Message edited by STEELYS MANFISH -- 7/25/2008 12:06:26 PM >

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 7
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 2:02:38 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2693
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline
spoon to the rescue.

iraq war-10 billion a month.  dang dem dems, lousy libs.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to STEELYS MANFISH)
Post #: 8
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 5:59:04 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
iraq war ,both voted for it,,, i got this a couple days ago::::: im a bad american,,,yes i am only american-with no prefixes attached.i am the liberals worst mightmare.,cause i am american..i believe the money i make belongs to me and my family,not some liberal govt functionary,be he a dem or repub.. i am in touch with my feelings and i like it that way..i think owning a gun doesnt make you a killer,but a smart american...i think being a minority doent make you noble or victimized and does not entitle you to anything...i believe if you are selling me a big mac,do it in english....i believe everyone has a right to pray to his GOD when and where he wants...my heroes are john wayne,babe ruth,roy rogers,and whoever cancelled jerry springer show... i dont hate the rich,i dont pity the poor..ive never owned a slave or was a slave;i havent burned any witches or been persecuted by the turks and neither have any of you ,so shut up about it,....i believe if you dont like the way things are here ,go back to where you came from and change your own country...this is america...if you were born here and dont like it,you are free to move to any socialistic country that will have you...i want to know where the REV JESSE JACKSON preaches,where he gets his money and why he is part of the problem and not the solution.can i get an AMEN on that one...i think the cops have every right to shoot your rear if you are running from them...i think they have every right to pull you over if you brake the law,no matter what color or nationality you are....i dont mind having my face on my drivers liscense,i think its good,,..if you are to dumb to know how a voting machine works,i dont want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world...i dont believe it takes a village to raise a child,it takes 2 parents,one of each sex....illegal is illegal no matter what the lawyers say...i believe the american flag should be the only one flown in america...IF THIS MAKES ME A BAD AMERICAN,THAN YES I AM A BAD AMERICAN

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 9
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 6:04:28 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
SPOON,once the liberal agenda is pushed thru,there wont be no america for our grandchildren to worry about,,, liberal marxism,see it for what it is,,dont have to be a scientist to see what the agenda is here,, un control,corp control,govt control on every aspect of your life,,, since roosevelt and wilson,we have been going to marxism,, wilson,read his speeches,,we shouldnt follow our constitution to closely as the founders seen it fit,,his theory,look it up,,, down hill ever since,, the new deal,,downfall of private freedoms,beginning of large govt

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 10
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 10:18:55 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
spoon,your little thing on a christian nation and jesus qanting us to spend more on killing our fellow man,,possibility,if you look back thru history of world religions,he did manage to create a lot of hatred, even himself thru actions from the garden on thru old and new testament, maybe him and bush are in partnership

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 11
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/25/2008 10:25:39 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

iraq war ,both voted for it,,, i got this a couple days ago::::: im a bad american,,,yes i am only american-with no prefixes attached.i am the liberals worst mightmare.,cause i am american..i believe the money i make belongs to me and my family,not some liberal govt functionary,be he a dem or repub.. i am in touch with my feelings and i like it that way..i think owning a gun doesnt make you a killer,but a smart american...i think being a minority doent make you noble or victimized and does not entitle you to anything...i believe if you are selling me a big mac,do it in english....i believe everyone has a right to pray to his GOD when and where he wants...my heroes are john wayne,babe ruth,roy rogers,and whoever cancelled jerry springer show... i dont hate the rich,i dont pity the poor..ive never owned a slave or was a slave;i havent burned any witches or been persecuted by the turks and neither have any of you ,so shut up about it,....i believe if you dont like the way things are here ,go back to where you came from and change your own country...this is america...if you were born here and dont like it,you are free to move to any socialistic country that will have you...i want to know where the REV JESSE JACKSON preaches,where he gets his money and why he is part of the problem and not the solution.can i get an AMEN on that one...i think the cops have every right to shoot your rear if you are running from them...i think they have every right to pull you over if you brake the law,no matter what color or nationality you are....i dont mind having my face on my drivers liscense,i think its good,,..if you are to dumb to know how a voting machine works,i dont want you deciding who should be running the most powerful nation in the world...i dont believe it takes a village to raise a child,it takes 2 parents,one of each sex....illegal is illegal no matter what the lawyers say...i believe the american flag should be the only one flown in america...IF THIS MAKES ME A BAD AMERICAN,THAN YES I AM A BAD AMERICAN

We finally agree, you are a bad american,and part of the problem. 

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 12
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 10:16:31 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2693
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline
                                   PROTEST IS PATRIOTIC




it started with our founding fathers trying to make changes for the better.....and hopefully will continue.  when we quit trying, we will become like the german people in the 30s.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to jonnyfishon)
Post #: 13
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 11:05:56 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1559
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline
(Protest is Patriotic)----Not necessarly---It depends on what and why you are protesting. In both WW-2 and Vietnam there were many protests in the U.S. and abroad that were started and funded by the Germans and Viet Cong to undermine democratic governments. Berkley Calif. many of the things they protest undermine the very foundations our country was founded on.  There are many career protesters who do it just for their spot in the limelight, also many displaced hippies from the 60's who still haven't found themselves. There is also the thought that you and I might be protesting on opposite sides of the street.Are we both patrotic?

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 14
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 11:17:03 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2693
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline
yes.

if we are trying hard to make this a better country or a better world, we are both right.  sometimes an individual may be wrong or misguided, sometimes it takes compromise, but we have to stand up for what we believe in.  this is what is so absolutely great about this country.  we can speak out and we can make changes.  unfortunately there are so many of us that we get a few bad apples on both sides of the protest fence.  and then we get the outside instigators also.

said it before, but bless the hippies (really those who are trying to find a way to avert war through other channels) and bless the servicemen and women (they are our national treasures, not buildings in d.c.).

status quo in this world isn't good.  we have to change.  however, change is scary.  if we are to survive as a society, a nation and as part of the world community, we have to change with it.  sometimes our government is the biggest hurdle to these changes.  that is when guys like you and i take claim of our country and make these changes.

imagine, had not the repubs and dems voted to initiate a war with iraq, there would be 4400 plus families who would not be in mourning today.  it was not the wishes of the american people to engage here.  we stood united as we pursued the initiators of 9/11 in iraq, and i am sure that we remain united on this front.  we cannot remain the strong arm of the u.n.  we need to change.  there has got to be a better way.   

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 15
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 11:25:33 AM   
Trap Jaw


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline
Can anyone tell me what it's called when a small group of people wield all the power and make the decisions for the rest of the country, for better or worse... 

When those people decide that the rest of the world should follow thier beliefs and morals... 

When those people will go to war to make the rest of the world like themselves, in the name of justice... 

When those people bypass the court system because it does not tell them what they want to hear... 

When the leaders of the government unite with the businesses of that country to further the beliefs of those involved...  

OH YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT...  FASCISM

_____________________________

Remeber, shoot straight and shoot often.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 16
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 11:31:23 AM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Trap Jaw

Can anyone tell me what it's called when a small group of people wield all the power and make the decisions for the rest of the country, for better or worse... 

When those people decide that the rest of the world should follow thier beliefs and morals... 

When those people will go to war to make the rest of the world like themselves, in the name of justice... 

When those people bypass the court system because it does not tell them what they want to hear... 

When the leaders of the government unite with the businesses of that country to further the beliefs of those involved...  

OH YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT...  FASCISM

If you look up the word bush you get the same defenition.

(in reply to Trap Jaw)
Post #: 17
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 11:46:44 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2693
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline
OUCH 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to jonnyfishon)
Post #: 18
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 5:18:35 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
jonny there is nothing i said is a problem,read and be merry ,that letter is true american thinking,, only liberal mindless moroons complain over issues in this country, want things handed to them, im a minority,so what ,get a job, rap who neeeds to be part of a world community, this is america,dont need no world community,,,,yes its facism,trap jaw,,but a govt who wants to control everything in our society is also called socialism, which also is against the very foundation of this country,spread the wealth is called marxism, but see what you dont understand when they say spread the wealth, that means anyone who has more than another,so everyone on here will pay into these liberal tax increases to spread the wealth, cause every american is wealthy compared to most third world nations, see read between the lines before you jump

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 19
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 5:20:19 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
yes i agree maybe bush is facism,never defended that but it is a fact liberalism is a marxist ,socislistic type govt agenda ,look that one up,under dem party

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 20
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 6:13:01 PM   
rapala11

 

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that letter is true american thinking,, only liberal mindless moroons complain over issues in this country

rock, you finally hit a nerve.  that is a heartless statement.  we voice opinions to make things better, and if we didn't we are nothing more than lemmings.

that is not a true american thinking.  that is nothing more than your opinion.

i would like to say more but i still feel you have worth as a human being. actually, you should take up fishing.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 21
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 7:15:16 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
rap,what part hit a nerve,the letter i recieved or what i said about liberals,,, i am all for what that letter states, it is how i and many un voicing americans feel,do you deny that,funny rap,you are always ready to pounce on a remark about conservatives,but look a couple posts above what them two morons wrote about facism, your reply was ,ouch,, that is the attitude i feel towards liberalism ,never worked and never will, look at the nations that tried it,,you ,spoon and jonjon,think you have the answers here always,you guys never look at the other views,, well i do,and if they are bull,i let you know it, like spoon saying obama didnt visit wounded troops in berlin cause of pentagon,well i just saw news clip,and know what ,he was wrong the pentagon welcomed obama to the visit,but without the media and aides at his side,,obama camp turned down offer, obama used the excuse it would look like political pandering, jonny just doesnt have substance,he is a bandwagoner,,,,, my opinion,i can care less who you vote for,i am not here to change no ones mind, cause the few on here arent going to change a vote count, i just voice my opinion on what i know thru reports and what i read, there again ,if its not your news source,you guys pounce again , must be fox,or rush,or hanity,,,what about the one sided media of  cnn,cbs,nbc,msnbc, pro liberal networks, absolutely no un- biased reporting,,,  mccains quote earlier today, with the media,no one running but obama, wouldnt even know the names of others if wasnt in the know

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 22
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 7:26:26 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2693
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline
you ,spoon and jonjon,think you have the answers here always

many others have voiced the same sentiments.  guess i never bashed clinton, eh?  guess we are all wrong, eh?   you know, s10, jone, or gonefishing will give a different side, present facts, argue their points and move on.  they may be conservatives, but i never feel  that they are here just to argue.  every post you make attacks liberals.  (i am a progressive, maybe a left leaning moderate, but unless you read enough and research, you will never know the difference).  there is a difference between liberals and socialism.  do the research here also.  it is a mesh of the two idealogies that made this country great.  with only one party or one ideology, we become nothing more than a monarchy or dictatorship.  read.

i am sure you are a nice guy, you may even fish once in awhile, but you get so agitated by anyone who thinks different than you on any subject.  no good..........adios.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 23
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 7:59:15 PM   
ROCKHARD


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rap,no difference between liberals and socialism,both believe in govt run agencies in all aspects of your life, both believe in controled living enviroment(social programs, ),, as far as you being progressive,that is what carl marx's ideas really was called .  i am not here to argue, i voice an opinion, you say a left leaning moderate,well then you are in line with mccain,,, he definately is not right of center,,,i am for whoever says ,lower taxes,shrinkage of govt, less govt programs and a flat tax slate,, strong military here not overseas,, and someone to stand up to the world and say not one freedom will be comprimised for no agenda what so ever, including global warming bull,climate change bull ,spread the wealth bull, and we need to change our standard of living bull to appease the world,

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 24
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 8:08:43 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
jonny just doesnt have substance,he is a bandwagoner,,,,, my opinion,i can care less who you vote for,i am not here to change no ones mind, cause the few on here arent going to change a vote count, i just voice my opinion on what i know thru reports and what i read, there again ,if its not your news source,you guys pounce again , must be fox,or rush,or hanity,,,what about the one sided media of  cnn,cbs,nbc,msnbc, pro liberal networks, absolutely

The only "substance" you seem to have is your opinion which you believe to be facts. I would not compare you to hanity or rush if  I only looked at one side. You know what you do. You think you know everything and attact those that present the facts. So once you have some "substance" maybe you wont be a bandwagoner.

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 25
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 8:21:53 PM   
ROCKHARD


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Status: offline
i put many facts on here jonjon,,i post many actual comments and write ups,, what facts are presented here jonjon, they are opinions by others, i show substance, but see jonny boy,since that truth isnt coming from your major media on tv, it isnt valid to you,, if i did listen to who you say ,im sure they know what their talking about more than your opinions,, one thing about talk radio i have found, they always quote a source where what they say can be found, ever listen to mike savage,he bashes the right more than he bashes the left, his show is not one sided one bit, he hates bush,liberals and any foreign govt trying to medel in our affairs,, so where does your notes come from,i can tell from your posts

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to jonnyfishon)
Post #: 26
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 8:27:32 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2693
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline
rock, you have been asked by many what is your agenda here?  why don't you really tell us?  by the way, i am not a marxist and that is not what today's progressive is.  once again, do some research before offering your opinion.

btw, a quote from rush or hannity is not facts, it is their opinions.  s10 buries us with facts.  may be slanted to his side but we do the same with ours.  but they are still facts, not just opinions.      

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 27
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 8:52:52 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline
rap i have put posts up from sources, but you discredit them cause not from who you think is reliable,, rush and hanity,lot of opinion,but they play actual soundbytes from these canidates,there is nothing hidden or added, or ifthey say where they read it ,i look it up myself, never said you were a marxist but progressive is a form of marxism,,,both sides can get any stat they want,so how can you discredit one over the other,my agenda none, but lets look at this facts again,, lets pick global warming,you can show me one side ,i show you the other, my point is why are we so eager to throw in the towel on our enviroment so easily on as you say someones opinion,there are no facts on neither side really. when it is proven above all doubt i will embrace it ,but not over any doubt still out there.

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 28
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/26/2008 11:40:00 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
here is some substance

Government Spending- A Tax on the Middle Class
All government spending represents a tax.  The inflation tax, while largely ignored, hurts middle-class and low-income Americans the most.
The never-ending political squabble in Congress over taxing the rich, helping the poor, “Pay-Go,” deficits, and special interests, ignores the most insidious of all taxes- the inflation tax.  Simply put, printing money to pay for federal spending dilutes the value of the dollar, which causes higher prices for goods and services.  Inflation may be an indirect tax, but it is very real- the individuals who suffer most from cost of living increases certainly pay a “tax.”
Unfortunately no one in Washington, especially those who defend the poor and the middle class, cares about this subject.  Instead, all we hear is that tax cuts for the rich are the source of every economic ill in the country.  Anyone truly concerned about the middle class suffering from falling real wages, under-employment, a rising cost of living, and a decreasing standard of living should pay a lot more attention to monetary policy. Federal spending, deficits, and Federal Reserve mischief hurt the poor while transferring wealth to the already rich.  This is the real problem, and raising taxes on those who produce wealth will only make conditions worse.
This neglect of monetary policy may be out of ignorance, but it may well be deliberate.  Fully recognizing the harm caused by printing money to cover budget deficits might create public pressure to restrain spending- something the two parties don’t want.
Expanding entitlements is now an accepted prerogative of both parties.  Foreign wars and nation building are accepted as foreign policy by both parties.
The Left hardly deserves credit when complaining about Republican deficits.  Likewise, we’ve been told by the Vice President that Ronald Reagan “proved deficits don’t matter”- a tenet of supply-side economics.  With this the prevailing wisdom in Washington, no one should be surprised that spending and deficits are skyrocketing.  The vocal concerns expressed about huge deficits coming from big spenders on both sides are nothing more than political grandstanding.  If Members feel so strongly about spending, Congress simply could do what it ought to do- cut spending.  That, however, is never seriously considered by either side.
If those who say they want to increase taxes to reduce the deficit got their way, who would benefit?  No one!  There’s no historic evidence to show that taxing productive Americans to support both the rich and poor welfare beneficiaries helps the middle class, produces jobs, or stimulates the economy.

Borrowing money to cut the deficit is only marginally better than raising taxes.  It may delay the pain for a while, but the cost of government eventually must be paid.  Federal borrowing means the cost of interest is added, shifting the burden to a different group than those who benefited and possibly even to another generation.  Eventually borrowing is always paid for through taxation.
All spending ultimately must be a tax, even when direct taxes and direct borrowing are avoided.  The third option is for the Federal Reserve to create credit to pay the bills Congress runs up.  Nobody objects, and most Members hope that deficits don’t really matter if the Fed accommodates Congress by creating more money.  Besides, interest payments to the Fed are lower than they would be if funds were borrowed from the public, and payments can be delayed indefinitely merely by creating more credit out of thin air to buy U.S. treasuries.  No need to soak the rich.  A good deal, it seems, for everyone.  But is it?
Paying for government spending with Federal Reserve credit, instead of taxing or borrowing from the public, is anything but a good deal for everyone.  In fact it is the most sinister seductive “tax” of them all.  Initially it is unfair to some, but dangerous to everyone in the end.  It is especially harmful to the middle class, including lower-income working people who are thought not to be paying taxes.

The “tax” is paid when prices rise as the result of a depreciating dollar.  Savers and those living on fixed or low incomes are hardest hit as the cost of living rises.  Low and middle incomes families suffer the most as they struggle to make ends meet while wealth is literally transferred from the middle class to the wealthy.  Government officials stick to their claim that no significant inflation exists, even as certain necessary costs are skyrocketing and incomes are stagnating.  The transfer of wealth comes as savers and fixed income families lose purchasing power, large banks benefit, and corporations receive plush contracts from the government- as is the case with military contractors. These companies use the newly printed money before it circulates, while the middle class is forced to accept it at face value later on.  This becomes a huge hidden tax on the middle class, many of whom never object to government spending in hopes that the political promises will be fulfilled and they will receive some of the goodies.  But surprise- it doesn’t happen.  The result instead is higher prices for prescription drugs, energy, and other necessities. The freebies never come.

The Fed is solely responsible for inflation by creating money out of thin air.  It does so either to monetize federal debt, or in the process of economic planning through interest rate manipulation.  This Fed intervention in our economy, though rarely even acknowledged by Congress, is more destructive than Members can imagine.
Not only is the Fed directly responsible for inflation and economic downturns, it causes artificially low interest rates that serve the interests of big borrowers, speculators, and banks. This unfairly steals income from frugal retirees who chose to save and place their funds in interest bearing instruments like CDs.
The Fed’s great power over the money supply, interest rates, the business cycle, unemployment, and inflation is wielded with essentially no Congressional oversight or understanding.  The process of inflating our currency to pay for government debt indeed imposes a tax without legislative authority.
This is no small matter.  In just the first 24 weeks of this year the M3 money supply increased 428 billion dollars, and 700 billion dollars in the past year.  M3 currently is rising at a rate of 10.5%.  In the last seven years the money supply has increased 80%, as M3 has soared 4.1 trillion dollars.  This bizarre system of paper money worldwide has allowed serious international imbalances to develop.  We owe just four Asian countries 1.5 trillion dollars as a consequence of a chronic and staggering current account deficit now exceeding 5% of our GDP.  This current account deficit means Americans must borrow 1.6 billion dollars per day from overseas just to finance this deficit.  This imbalance, which until now has permitted us to live beyond our means, eventually will give us higher consumer prices, a lower standard of living, higher interest rates, and renewed inflation.
Rest assured the middle class will suffer disproportionately from this process.

The moral of the story is that spending is always a tax.  The inflation tax, though hidden, only makes things worse.  Taxing, borrowing, and inflating to satisfy wealth transfers from the middle class to the rich in an effort to pay for profligate government spending, can never make a nation wealthier.  But it certainly can make it poorer.

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 29
RE: changed my mind, politicaly - 7/27/2008 12:42:21 AM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 2035
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

rap,no difference between liberals and socialism,both believe in govt run agencies in all aspects of your life, both believe in controled living enviroment(social programs, ),, as far as you being progressive,that is what carl marx's ideas really was called .  i am not here to argue, i voice an opinion, you say a left leaning moderate,well then you are in line with mccain,,, he definately is not right of center,,,i am for whoever says ,lower taxes,shrinkage of govt, less govt programs and a flat tax slate,, strong military here not overseas,, and someone to stand up to the world and say not one freedom will be comprimised for no agenda what so ever, including global warming bull,climate change bull ,spread the wealth bull, and we need to change our standard of living bull to appease the world,


Ron Paul is your guy. 

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 30
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