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When will we get rid of this madness - 10/12/2009 10:52:36 PM   
mak7464


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/28/2005
From: Pennsyl-tucky
Status: offline 		Outside of Wisconsin, who makes you wear a billboard on you back.  what other states beside PA make you display your liscnese on you back.


Will we ever catch up, its time to end this madness and let me keep it in my wallet like the rest of the free world.

< Message edited by mak7464 -- 10/12/2009 10:55:03 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/12/2009 11:19:28 PM   
Wayniac

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 9/15/2009
Status: offline 		More reasons for the wardens to stop and talk to you! It wouldn't make a difference one way or another to me. I think its nice being able to take down a tresspasser or poachers tag number to turn them in but the new license is too small to read.

(in reply to mak7464)
Post #: 2
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 12:31:06 AM   
saltydog

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 1/29/2006
Status: offline 		easy fix. get out.

(in reply to Wayniac)
Post #: 3
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 6:32:04 AM   
kevinupp


Posts: 4542
Joined: 9/22/2001
Status: offline 		Better get on the legiscritters. They're the ones that have to change the law.

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RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 7:46:13 AM   
SilverKype


Posts: 4528
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: State
Status: offline 		I don't think many hunters care.  I don't carry my wallet in the woods.

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Post #: 5
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 11:11:59 AM   
sugarfuzz12

 

Posts: 442
Joined: 2/11/2008
Status: offline 		agree with silver on that

(in reply to SilverKype)
Post #: 6
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 11:56:39 AM   
thedrake

 

Posts: 1868
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: offline 		I don't like to carry my wallet in the woods. I'd rather keep the rule as it is now.

Like someone said earlier, the license being displayed allows us to turn someone in for a violation....if we can get a license number.

(in reply to sugarfuzz12)
Post #: 7
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 1:54:08 PM   
killdeer19


Posts: 374
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Midway, PA
Status: offline 		What's going to keep the guy who hunts his own property from not buying a lisence if we don't have to display them... or the guy who only hunts the opening day of Buck season? I'd be way to tempted to take the chance of not seeing a game officer if I only hunted one day and processed my own deer. I've been hunting for 20 yrs and have NEVER seen a warden in the field in any season (and I hunt alot on game lands or public property).

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Post #: 8
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 1:59:16 PM   
CrossForkWookie

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		What's the big deal with wearing it on your back?  It makes sense for so many reasons except for one: if you already have an axe to grind it gives you something else to complain about.


.

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Post #: 9
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 2:21:53 PM   
Dr. Trout

 

Posts: 1541
Joined: 3/3/2002
From: Jefferson County
Status: offline 		AMEN !!!!

It is no big deal wearing it on the back...  or anywhere else displayed...
who cares what other states do... most do not have near the number of hunters we have in Pa..

and as mentioned it is easy to see a person has bought a license if it is displayed on his back... without one.. displayed... a WCO will have to check every single person he sees in the woods or on the road ...

as long as it is displayed I see no hassle... 

as for reporting violators.. that is going to be harder than ever with the new smaller licenses....

one thing in the PGC favor... each year the person will have the same license number.. so a licenses plate number of a vechile can be traced to the owner and his tag number...

< Message edited by Dr. Trout -- 10/13/2009 2:25:33 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 2:26:51 PM   
CrossForkWookie

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		Trout I agree with you on the size.  It was hard enough seeing the letters on the old ones, but at least it could be done. These new ones is next to impossible.


Having a license on your back holds you accountable.  It literally gives you a number, something you can be tracked with.  I fail to see what is wrong with that not just from abiding by game laws but also from a safety standpoint.  Enough people think they can get away with anything as it is, not displaying them would make things much, much worse.


Besides, if you ever saw someone out in the woods with a gun or bow not wearing one, you can automatically assume they are up to no good.......right?  What's so bad about that?



.

(in reply to Dr. Trout)
Post #: 11
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 3:43:42 PM   
bulldog1


Posts: 1782
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		Ummm, you guys might want to start carrying your wallet, it's the law that you carry ID with you..... just sayin'

I don't see the big deal about wearing it on your back, now the fishing license is a pain to keep displayed.

(in reply to CrossForkWookie)
Post #: 12
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 3:49:21 PM   
theyjustswimup


Posts: 88
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		with the new licenses i think they can be displayed anywhere. does nto have to be on your back.  I carry a waist pack and put it on there this year

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Post #: 13
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 5:06:07 PM   
KISHWAA


Posts: 852
Joined: 4/21/2008
From: DUQUESNE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bulldog1

Ummm, you guys might want to start carrying your wallet, it's the law that you carry ID with you..... just sayin'


  ummmmm, thats why you take your ID out your wallet and put it in your pocket just sayin'

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Post #: 14
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 6:55:43 PM   
Claypool313

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online 		Seriously folks.  PA needs to get out of the dark ages.  We have wallet size licenses now, let's keep them in our wallets, alright.  I'm sure we collectively could come up with more good reasons to eliminate the back tag than not.

Just to name a few.

No more getting caught and knocked off going through heavy brush.  Always having to check.  Do I still have my license?
No double holders for the doe tag flopping around.
No more holes in jackets w/o the special loop.
No more wet tags.
No more switching back and forth between hunting coats, orange vests, during the overlap.  That's not to mention backpack.

Cripes.  And the deputies only check people on the side of the road anyway, so what's the difference between turning around and getting out your wallet?  You have to anyway to show your ID.


< Message edited by Claypool313 -- 10/13/2009 6:56:41 PM >

(in reply to KISHWAA)
Post #: 15
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 7:16:01 PM   
Dr. Trout

 

Posts: 1541
Joined: 3/3/2002
From: Jefferson County
Status: offline 		""And the deputies only check people on the side of the road anyway""

that may be true in the areas you hunt but not so around here (2F, Jefferson and Elk)

The WCOs and Deputies will go into the woods around here in a heart beat to check a hunter if they think he is up to no good...  and not displaying a license would cause them to do just that..

No more getting caught and knocked off going through heavy brush.  Always having to check.  Do I still have my license?

never had that happen, I believe I would feel it tearing my coat if it got hung-up on something 


No double holders for the doe tag flopping around.
My license holder folds in two, so as long as I have a buck tag it is good folded away..


No more holes in jackets w/o the special loop.

two small pin holes in my jacket.. I just keep using the same two holes... but most of them already have a place to attach license.. 


No more wet tags.
not sure how you are getting your tag wet ??? my license holder is plastic..


No more switching back and forth between hunting coats, orange vests, during the overlap.  That's not to mention backpack.

okay that's one !!

I do not like carrying my wallet either..
so I have a Xerox copy of my drivers license in the license holder with the license.. that's my proof of ID...

wallet and other "stuff" is locked in my truck...



_____________________________

TIL LATER..
DOC
DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD

(in reply to Claypool313)
Post #: 16
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 7:57:35 PM   
Hummer82

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 5/5/2009
Status: offline 		IMO I think its a pain when I hunt waterfowl because it flares birds.  Might as well wear a mirror on my back.

(in reply to Dr. Trout)
Post #: 17
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 8:56:36 PM   
Claypool313

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online 		Typical reaction.

I don't have to defend my statements.  Either you agree with them or you don't.  Just sayin.

(in reply to Hummer82)
Post #: 18
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/13/2009 11:10:01 PM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 2329
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: 20' up a white oak @ full draw
Status: offline 		With the new license size there is no reason to display it. WCO told me that if it was changed, they would have to disrupt people's hunts more often to check licenses.

Funny, when I hunt colorado, they are courteous enough to wait until I have finished hunting or am at a point where they will not disturb my hunt much.

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Post #: 19
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 8:04:07 AM   
gary3414

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 7/19/2009
Status: online 		I have been checked many times as many as 3 times in one day by 3 different wco's. It doesn't matter if its in your wallet or on or back they will want to see it and usually take it out of the holder to see the info on the inside. Never had anyone ask to see other form of id. If your waterfowl hunting buy a camo license holder and pin it on backwards. Mine is always like that and have been checked at least once a week no one has had a problem with it. They know it flares birds.
I have had to go back and look for my license twice both times leaned against a tree and holder came unpinned and license fell off my jacket. Fixed that problem with a pair of pliers.  I would rather replace a lost license than try and replace everything in a lost wallet.

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 20
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 9:55:54 AM   
heyiknowyou


Posts: 307
Joined: 9/17/2009
From: eeeeeeeeeeeerie
Status: online 		i keep an expired driver's license in my license holder and change it every 4 years when i get a new expired one. if the occifer wants to see a current ID, he can walk with me to the truck so i can get my wallet. never been hassled for not having a hunting license on my back so long as i have a hunting license.

(in reply to gary3414)
Post #: 21
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 10:49:34 AM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 2329
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: 20' up a white oak @ full draw
Status: offline 		the point is, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Why do you need to inturrupt someone's hunt to check a license? If you want to see it, because you as a wco suspect they are doing something illegal, have the courtesy to wait until they are finished with thier hunt and then check them. Or wait until they have moved or something. Every time I have been checked it has gone something like this.

It is 7:00 am. I am in a white oak which is dropping acorns by the truck load, the sun has just come up. I can hear movement behind me in the thicket. Just then I see two figures coming down the trail.

From 60-75 yards away comes a holler (loud enough to run all of the game out of the entire county),
"WCO ............... Pennsylvania Game Commission! Step down from the tree!"

Me (climb down during the only am prime time I will get to hunt all week)
"Something wrong guys?"

them "Nope just need to check your license."

Bunch of crap! Find something better to do, or learn some manners. Wait at my truck, wait quietly in the distance till I climb down, or at the very least until the best part of the morning is over.

Seroiously, when was the last time a state trooper pulled you over and said "nothing wrong, just wanted to see your license."

I am considering learning where the wco's hunt and goin in during prime time to ask them game law questions. That lies along about the same courtesy level, the way I figgure it.

NOW, if you see me doing something illegal, then by all means, come in and check me out, write me up and so on and so forth. I have real issues with the courtesy displayed by some of our WCO's and deputies. Their badge does not give them free run of the woods.

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Post #: 22
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 7:07:30 PM   
Mountian Man


Posts: 1751
Joined: 4/16/2007
From: THE ABYSS
Status: offline 		I agree with musky on the courtesy of WCO's and I'll throw in Fish Wardens too...

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Post #: 23
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 7:46:11 PM   
Claypool313

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: online 		MM.  That's not just bordering on hunter harassment.  Feel sorry for ya.


Only time I've ever been checked, any state, (been hunting for 19 yrs), was when I was 15 or so.  And that was only b/c my forgetful cousin went beboppin down the field without his orange hat on during an extremely warm day in rifle.

(in reply to Mountian Man)
Post #: 24
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 10:58:52 PM   
heyiknowyou


Posts: 307
Joined: 9/17/2009
From: eeeeeeeeeeeerie
Status: online 		luckily i've never run into them in the woods... they've only ever been waiting at the truck when we get back.

(in reply to Claypool313)
Post #: 25
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/14/2009 11:08:50 PM   
Ironhed


Posts: 5349
Joined: 11/7/2001
Status: offline 		Got checked once, at my vehicle, quite a few years ago, by Jack Lambert himself.

Ironhed

(in reply to heyiknowyou)
Post #: 26
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/15/2009 10:02:57 AM   
CrossForkWookie

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		Been my experience in 30 years of hunting they never come into the woods looking for you unless they get a tip somethings up in that area.   If it happens over and over and over again to someone, then I'd say there's a pattern in there somewhere that needs addressed.  Just sayn'.

If it just hapenned once, then chalk it of to "one of those things".


Still, what's the big deal if it happens once.  I'd say it's good to know they are out there making honest attempts at doing their jobs.  But maybe that axe is still laying around, having to get grinded again.






.

(in reply to Ironhed)
Post #: 27
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/15/2009 10:11:28 AM   
CrossForkWookie

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Claypool313

Seriously folks.  PA needs to get out of the dark ages.  We have wallet size licenses now, let's keep them in our wallets, alright.  I'm sure we collectively could come up with more good reasons to eliminate the back tag than not.

Just to name a few.

No more getting caught and knocked off going through heavy brush.  Always having to check.  Do I still have my license?
No double holders for the doe tag flopping around.
No more holes in jackets w/o the special loop.
No more wet tags.
No more switching back and forth between hunting coats, orange vests, during the overlap.  That's not to mention backpack.

Cripes.  And the deputies only check people on the side of the road anyway, so what's the difference between turning around and getting out your wallet?  You have to anyway to show your ID.



All of these reasons are "matter of convenience" reasons.

They have nothing to do with safety, or management of hunters.

I think as a landowner you'd feel better about people going to/from your land if you knew they had a license on them that makes them accountable.  For so many safety and enforcement reasons it just makes sense.

PA has changed their ATV laws in recent years to make it so they need registered.  The reasons are much the same.......before people riding them came and went as they pleased and caused problems without any way of holding them accountable.  Funny how people change when they feel big brother is watching or if they do something wrong someone can take their plate # and report them.  No different with hunting.



(in reply to Claypool313)
Post #: 28
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/15/2009 1:39:54 PM   
mak7464


Posts: 501
Joined: 9/28/2005
From: Pennsyl-tucky
Status: offline 		All you can see now is a yellow box on a back.

No one is going to be able to get your numbers unless you are sitting with them.

I for one, when getting permission to hunt, give the land owner, my license #, phone number, and a description of any vehicles I may park on or around his property.  This year the land owner is getting several pounds of pepper stick from a successful hunter.

When a WCO sees you with one on they check you -- so what changes for them -- Ive been checked before in different areas and never had one look from the distance and say.  "Yea, that one in your holder looks like this years from here, your ok."

Yes it is a "matter of convenience."  A plate on your 4 wheeler stays on it..you dont have to transfer it to a different coat every time the weather changes or a new season comes in or worry about losing it.  Hell I remember a few years ago when the GC tried to get the turkey hunters killed by giving the things a blue tint...LMAO.

The Digest and the law contradict one another!!!

PAGE 84 of the Pennsylvania Hunting and Trapping Digest says this:

"Display:  Hunting and furtaking licenses can be folded to fit in a license holder.  If you are checked by a wildlife conservation officer or the landowner while afield, you must have all appliacable hunting  and furtaker licenses on your person, along with positive ID to confirm identification and residency."

"can be folded"  is not must be folded or must be displayed! 

I add this statement to my friends who told me last night while I was speaking of this thread that "when I asked the guy at wal-mart if he had any holders to fit the new licenses he told me that you dont need to display them any more." 

I then searched the PDF of the digest for this year for the word display, displaying or displayed and none of the hits have anything to do with displaying your license.

The offical code says:

Sec. 2711. Unlawful acts concerning licenses.
(a) General rule. - Except as otherwise provided in this title, it is unlawful for any person to:
    (1) Hunt or take any game or wildlife by any means or manner or device, including the use of dogs, without first securing and personally signing and displaying the required license.


    so until that is changed I will continue to display mine, but I wont like it. 
    Remember: the digest is not the law, when your arrested, they cite the "Code" not the digest.


< Message edited by mak7464 -- 10/15/2009 1:41:06 PM >

_____________________________

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to CrossForkWookie)
Post #: 29
RE: When will we get rid of this madness - 10/15/2009 2:53:46 PM   
Dr. Trout

 

Posts: 1541
Joined: 3/3/2002
From: Jefferson County
Status: offline 		We already discussed this ... but .. one more time.. the wal mart guy is WRONG !!!

the license has to be displayed !!!

_____________________________

TIL LATER..
DOC
DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD

(in reply to mak7464)
Post #: 30
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