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Turtle Creek - 3/31/2008 9:13:25 AM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		Was Turtle Creek stocked this year?  I have never been real impressed with it, but I may be pressed for time on opening day, so I might fish there.
Post #: 1
RE: Turtle Creek - 3/31/2008 10:01:58 AM   
Swans500

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: online 		9th and 21st April.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 2
RE: Turtle Creek - 3/31/2008 5:18:06 PM   
6 wt swing

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/16/2008
Status: offline 		Turtle Creek has fish.  The sickest thing i see is people keeping the fish.  It seems they probably eat like poop given the watershed.  let em go

(in reply to Swans500)
Post #: 3
RE: Turtle Creek - 3/31/2008 6:24:55 PM   
plnoldrick

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		i helped stock last year and they put some really nice fish in there. but since its so close to suburbia and there really arent any other "close" streams it gets hammered to hell and back. one thing to note is before they stock they will check the waters ph to make sure the fish will survive. if we get alot of heavy rains till then and the mines up past murrysville start spewing out acid they can and will deny the stocking.

yep its  garbage dump but its outside, its water, its fishing. cant be that bad. i only fished it once after the crowds and i did pretty good on yozuri pin's minnows.

(in reply to 6 wt swing)
Post #: 4
RE: Turtle Creek - 3/31/2008 11:33:07 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		I've fished there in the past and I grew up in Turtle Creek (the town, not the body of water).  I worked at the Marvin S Tell company in Trafford when they first started stocking it.  I couldn't believe it.  I never kept anything I caught there, but like you said, it's water, it's fishing' and it's outside.  I may not have a lot of time on opening day, so I may have to go there.

The water was always an odd shade of green, the bottom had a slimy layer that reminded me of sewage, and there was always a strange smell.  But, if trout can live in it, I guess I'll fish for em.  Maybe it's improved in the years since I've fished there.

(in reply to plnoldrick)
Post #: 5
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 2:45:41 AM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 1210
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: The 1st Trench
Status: offline 		HEAVY amounts of aluminum in that stream.  I did some work on it in Duff Park a few years back.  Still do benthics and fish once a year and not much there, at least in that area.

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Post #: 6
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 5:51:47 AM   
DaGman

 

Posts: 138
Joined: 3/2/2006
Status: offline 		Used to fish it, last time a cpl yrs ago, never did any good there "but" not really knowing the stream i guess it's like anywhere else, if you don't know the body of water & where the nicer holes are, you most likely are'nt going to find em. Now although i did find a nice hole down below the parking lot area where the stream almost splits into a mild fork creating a nice deep hole, i fished it thoroughly & only had 1 decent hit, but again, if you don't know the holes, you are'nt going to find em in most cases, and that's pretty hard to do when your tagging your girlfriend along (who doesn't enjoy fishing & her son who doesn't show an interest as well) LOL.

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 7
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 9:28:20 AM   
Loomis


Posts: 496
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		My families business owns Turtle Creek Railroad, I ask if anyone fishes there please do not be disrespectful to our property as we allow people to access the stream/walk dogs/whatever.  Please be courteous to the posted signs and DO NOT bring vehicles back there.  On the railroad bridge back off of saunders someone sunk a black F-250 in summer, not exactly helping the already bad water quality.

Turtle Creek is a mystery, I like to fish it, but again as said on here I think its just because of the suburban location that it's stocked.  If it wasn't for Abers creek dumping a little bit cleaner water in it would never get stocked.  Our business is located near the headwaters in Export and it floods really bad every year at our business. We are working to get this creek channelized.  The D.E.P. has hopes that 100-150 years the water quality might be suited to hold fish and they don't want to channelize it but I think this is erroneous.  Im sick of wringning out wet files and having moldy carpets in the office, it's work that shouldn't have to be done. 

Iv'e caught browns with green film on thier backs there before.  Oh, and Iv'e seen a caddis hatch off of Saunders station road....if you can believe it.  not alot of food though, so the fish stay easy to catch.

_____________________________

http://loomisflyfisher.blogspot.com Updated 3/23/08

"I am by no means the most logical and educated person about fly fishing, but I will share with you what I know"

(in reply to DaGman)
Post #: 8
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 9:53:35 AM   
Swans500

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: online 		I fished there the last 2 seasons and caught trout there until mid June. I don't know about the health of the water but it does hold a lot of life....it is full of healthy chubs and I caught plenty of small suckers, cats and crayfish. Even in August I saw a couple of holes in Trafford area containing bunches of small rainbows chasing heaps of minnows of some sort. So I guess the local aquatic population is rather hardy.

(in reply to Loomis)
Post #: 9
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 10:10:59 AM   
shemanese

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/25/2008
Status: offline 		If there are fish and the other organisms there year round then the water cannot be as bad as some might lead us to believe. It may not be attractive like some more pristine mountain stream, but the organisms don't lie.

(in reply to Swans500)
Post #: 10
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 3:34:08 PM   
plnoldrick

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shemanese

If there are fish and the other organisms there year round then the water cannot be as bad as some might lead us to believe. It may not be attractive like some more pristine mountain stream, but the organisms don't lie.


your right its not that bad, seriously. the only problem they have had in the past is the mines that lie on the feeder tribs to the creek dumping acid. from what the wco told me they will never be able to seal them shut. so every year in advance of the stocking some lab checks the water quality to see if it will support trout. you gotta understand trout are a little more fragile then other fish. so it could be possible for it to hold a variety of stuff but not be at a high enough standard to hold trout.

bunch of years ago after they started stocking the stream again they had a huge fish kill from acid mine drainage. i believe they lost everything they stocked. since then they have done the water quality testing. i think alot of people issues with the creek come from the pre improvement era. but its still suburban and suffers from the same trash/blight that every other piece of land does in the area.

(in reply to shemanese)
Post #: 11
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 6:44:49 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		I've seen small minnows/chubs in there. So it may not be as bad as imagined.  But it definitely has an odor and an odd color.

Does anyone know if that guy that owns the property between Forbes road at Blackburn and the old brickyard is still hostile to fishermen?

(in reply to plnoldrick)
Post #: 12
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 6:48:34 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loomis

My families business owns Turtle Creek Railroad, I ask if anyone fishes there please do not be disrespectful to our property as we allow people to access the stream/walk dogs/whatever.  Please be courteous to the posted signs and DO NOT bring vehicles back there.  On the railroad bridge back off of saunders someone sunk a black F-250 in summer, not exactly helping the already bad water quality.

Turtle Creek is a mystery, I like to fish it, but again as said on here I think its just because of the suburban location that it's stocked.  If it wasn't for Abers creek dumping a little bit cleaner water in it would never get stocked.  Our business is located near the headwaters in Export and it floods really bad every year at our business. We are working to get this creek channelized.  The D.E.P. has hopes that 100-150 years the water quality might be suited to hold fish and they don't want to channelize it but I think this is erroneous.  Im sick of wringning out wet files and having moldy carpets in the office, it's work that shouldn't have to be done. 

Iv'e caught browns with green film on thier backs there before.  Oh, and Iv'e seen a caddis hatch off of Saunders station road....if you can believe it.  not alot of food though, so the fish stay easy to catch.


If this mans family owns that line, we need to respect his wishes.  I believe that line accesses the entire length of the creek that is stocked.  Personally, I'd treat the land as if it were my own.  Styrofoam bait cups are especially annoying!

(in reply to Loomis)
Post #: 13
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 7:58:57 PM   
Swans500

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: online 		People leave the area a rotton mess, but then, the provided trash bins were not emptied for the entire spring and summer last year...council or owners...I don't know.
On last years opening day....in barely 40 degree temps, several groups of young guys with only one of them actually fishing, left a pig sty of empty beer bottles (10 o'clock in the morning)....ketchup and mustard squirted everywhere....plastic bags and half full bait containers all in the water....
Even the older guys who really look the "pro trout fisher" part left the styrofoam crap all over the place. This goes on for 4 weeks or so, with the double stocking. Beyond my comprehension how these people, getting out after a long winter, can behave like this, because as we have said here....not a pristine mountain stream, but it is all we have in the area.

Dennis.


(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 14
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/1/2008 9:31:24 PM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 1210
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: The 1st Trench
Status: offline 		Most of the fish you guys are describing are what we call the usual suspects.  Typically these 3 make up 80-90% of the bio mass in severely degraded streams.  Creek Chub, White sucker, Black Nose Dace.  All three are some of the most pollution tolerant fish in western PA.   Keep in mind the only section I have worked on is in Duff Park in Murraysville, but I have also found very few benthics there in extensive sampling.

_____________________________

All my heroes smell like fish.

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Post #: 15
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/2/2008 8:40:34 AM   
Loomis


Posts: 496
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		It makes me sick that people don't think to Pick up thier trash.  I was at yellow creek yesterday off of Ferriers Run playing fetch with the pup, when two gentleman came down picking up trash.  They told me that a doctor from Delmont owns the property and they keep it clean out of courtesy for him allowing access....need more people like that on Turtle.   I think people believe since it's already bad how can it get worse?  It's nice place to take kids I guess, for the housing plan dad wishing for the mountains, it's a nice little relief.  Please try to help keep the area clean and access will continue

_____________________________

http://loomisflyfisher.blogspot.com Updated 3/23/08

"I am by no means the most logical and educated person about fly fishing, but I will share with you what I know"

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 16
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/3/2008 9:50:41 PM   
6 wt swing

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/16/2008
Status: offline 		There are parts of TC that are actually quite spectacular.  I grew up in wilkins township and now live in export.  The big effort should be that Turtle Creek being stocked could be the eastern part of Allegheny county's Pine or Deer Creek.  Make it a DHALO -- although it still needs clean up from Penn Hills runoff/laundry day and murrysville/export orange mine acid the creek is better lookin than the best pine creek view.  At least between saunders and the "BY"

(in reply to Loomis)
Post #: 17
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/6/2008 12:14:19 AM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		Isn't that the main area that is stocked?

(in reply to 6 wt swing)
Post #: 18
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/6/2008 10:05:54 AM   
6 wt swing

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 3/16/2008
Status: offline 		Yeah parts of that hold trout all year.  the bends down from suanders etc are nicely sheltered from suburbia.  Above Saunders there are stretches with trout as well.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 19
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/6/2008 7:57:25 PM   
Livinfishin

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 9/25/2007
Status: offline 		I am amazed every year that the PFBC has to resort to stocking Turtle Creek for publicity. Believe me, that is the ONLY reason it is stocked. Quite sad. Turtle Creek is still very badly polluted in the headwaters not only from mine acid drainage, but also from a heavy aluminum discharge upstream of Export, and also sewage discharges.  If it were not for Haymaker Run and Abers Creek somewhat diluting the polluted water upstream, the middle section would be a dead waterway, as is the headwaters and lower section below the Conf. w Brush Creek.  Down from there the creek is completely dead.  Every year I fish it several times and every year I see dead fish along the banks.  A real shame.

< Message edited by Livinfishin -- 4/6/2008 7:58:42 PM >

(in reply to 6 wt swing)
Post #: 20
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/9/2008 8:04:31 AM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		Surprisingly, every year someone catches a trout down in East Pittsburg.  Where the heck does aluminium come from?  Brush Creek (if that's the one that runs from Irwin and Ardara) is frighteningly polluted.

It's a shame nothing can be done.

(in reply to Livinfishin)
Post #: 21
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/9/2008 9:29:43 AM   
shemanese

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 3/25/2008
Status: offline 		While I am not familiar with the particulars of Turtle Creek, aluminum contamination in streams usually comes from acidic discharges or acidic runoff in the case of acid precipitation. Since acid rain is not known to be a big problem away from the ridges it is most likely the aluminum in Turtle Creek is coming from some especially low pH (high acidity) mine discharges.

Sometimes being observant will give you a good indication of whether or not there is aluminum in the water. As the pH starts to rise (due to the buffering capacity in the watershed) the aluminum will begin to precipitate causing the water to take on a sort of milky appearance and the white aluminum sulfate will settle on the bottom.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 22
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/9/2008 5:16:27 PM   
plnoldrick

 

Posts: 345
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shemanese

While I am not familiar with the particulars of Turtle Creek, aluminum contamination in streams usually comes from acidic discharges or acidic runoff in the case of acid precipitation. Since acid rain is not known to be a big problem away from the ridges it is most likely the aluminum in Turtle Creek is coming from some especially low pH (high acidity) mine discharges.

Sometimes being observant will give you a good indication of whether or not there is aluminum in the water. As the pH starts to rise (due to the buffering capacity in the watershed) the aluminum will begin to precipitate causing the water to take on a sort of milky appearance and the white aluminum sulfate will settle on the bottom.


the nail has been hit on the head. milky neon green with tons of white flakey stuff on the bottom and white froth here and there.

(in reply to shemanese)
Post #: 23
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/9/2008 10:33:31 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		It does have a strange color that I've never seen anywhere else that I've actually fished.

(in reply to plnoldrick)
Post #: 24
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/9/2008 10:48:10 PM   
Livinfishin

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 9/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

Surprisingly, every year someone catches a trout down in East Pittsburg.  Where the heck does aluminium come from?  Brush Creek (if that's the one that runs from Irwin and Ardara) is frighteningly polluted.

It's a shame nothing can be done.
Aluminum discharge is upstream of Export.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 25
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/9/2008 11:23:21 PM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 1210
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: The 1st Trench
Status: offline 		it is the second worst stream that I have sampled in western PA (out of over 70)

_____________________________

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Post #: 26
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/10/2008 3:37:16 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

it is the second worst stream that I have sampled in western PA (out of over 70)


The scary thing is, that means there is one that is worse!

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 27
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/10/2008 3:55:02 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Livinfishin

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

Surprisingly, every year someone catches a trout down in East Pittsburg.  Where the heck does aluminium come from?  Brush Creek (if that's the one that runs from Irwin and Ardara) is frighteningly polluted.

It's a shame nothing can be done.
Aluminum discharge is upstream of Export.


How much upstream is there? 

(in reply to Livinfishin)
Post #: 28
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/10/2008 4:04:51 PM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 1210
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: The 1st Trench
Status: offline 		McClarens run next to the airport.  Deicer runoff along with all the added impervious surfaces has destroyed it.

_____________________________

All my heroes smell like fish.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 29
RE: Turtle Creek - 4/10/2008 6:11:02 PM   
Swans500

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: online 		Well....despite all the quality problems, does anyone know if the creek did pass this years test and get stocked this week????

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 30
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