Tipping a guide

Tipping a guide

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Tipping a guide - 10/24/2009 1:02:18 PM

Hav2Fish

Posts: 65
Joined: 8/25/2003
From: Central PA
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What would be an appropriate amount to tip your guide for a drift boat trip on the Salmon? Assuming the day was productive, that is.
Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/24/2009 1:58:26 PM

nysteelieguy

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/21/2007
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Don't just tip if the day was productive. Many factors are out of a guide's hands. The fish don't bite great every day. Something you should know as an angler. You should learn a few new things in a day's fishing with a guide.

A good guide will also show you what it takes to come back and catch fish on your own next time.

As long as he works tirelessly to put you on fish, and does everything he can do, the rest is up to the fish.

I will generally give a $50 tip if the above conditions are met, no matter what we catch.

(in reply to Hav2Fish)

Post #: 2

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 6:31:31 AM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
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The guides are self employed. Why would you tip them? They get 100% of the price you paid them. They're not low paid employees like waitresses, doormen, etc. Do you tip your family doctor?

(in reply to nysteelieguy)

Post #: 3

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 10:11:51 AM

deadfishred

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Joined: 7/27/2009
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Having been on a few guided trips out there with my dad, he always had a guideline - if the trip sucked and the guide sucked - no tip. If the trip sucked but the guide was good - 10% - if the trip rocked and the guide rocked anywhere from 15% to 25%. Guides expect to be tipped and deserve it. It is very difficult to scratch out a living as a guide on the Salmon River.

(in reply to young)

Post #: 4

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 11:41:13 AM

hot tuna

Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: young

The guides are self employed. Why would you tip them? They get 100% of the price you paid them. They're not low paid employees like waitresses, doormen, etc. Do you tip your family doctor?

We do not get 100% and are required to file any wages to the IRS just like anyone else. As far as being low paid, figure it out.. The amount of money spent on equipment and only getting paid if hired. Then divide the number of days not hired, the amount of "free" time spent on scouting by the amount of income coming in, it's a tough way to make a living.

quote:

ORIGINAL: deadfishred

Having been on a few guided trips out there with my dad, he always had a guideline - if the trip sucked and the guide sucked - no tip. If the trip sucked but the guide was good - 10% - if the trip rocked and the guide rocked anywhere from 15% to 25%. Guides expect to be tipped and deserve it. It is very difficult to scratch out a living as a guide on the Salmon River.

Thats a fair assessment... but just remember, nobody can control the habits of the quarry. A great guide can work their azz off but the game may just not cooperate.. Same flip , you may have a pizz poor guide but catch a lot of fish. It's what you take away from the trip to me is the most important factor.. Did the guide stand in 1 spot all day ? Even though you caught fish all day what did you really learn ?
Did you cover and learn different holding patterns of where & when fish will use them ? Higher flows VS lower flows ? You may not have caught any fish but at least you may have a better understanding of the habits & water.

_____________________________

http://foreverwildoutfitters.com/

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen

(in reply to young)

Post #: 5

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 1:28:05 PM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
Status: offline

quote:

We do not get 100% and are required to file any wages to the IRS just like anyone else. As far as being low paid, figure it out.. The amount of money spent on equipment and only getting paid if hired. Then divide the number of days not hired, the amount of "free" time spent on scouting by the amount of income coming in, it's a tough way to make a living.

Sorry, I don't feel bad for people who go fishing for a living.

If you don't like it, get a real job.

And yes, you do get 100%. If you charge 200 a day, you receive 200 a day. A waitress makes $2.60 an hour regardless of what is charged for the food she serves. That's why she gets tips.

Everyone pays taxes.

(in reply to hot tuna)

Post #: 6

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 2:07:30 PM

draketrutta

Posts: 40
Joined: 9/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: young

quote:

We do not get 100% and are required to file any wages to the IRS just like anyone else. As far as being low paid, figure it out.. The amount of money spent on equipment and only getting paid if hired. Then divide the number of days not hired, the amount of "free" time spent on scouting by the amount of income coming in, it's a tough way to make a living.

Sorry, I don't feel bad for people who go fishing for a living.

If you don't like it, get a real job.

And yes, you do get 100%. If you charge 200 a day, you receive 200 a day. A waitress makes $2.60 an hour regardless of what is charged for the food she serves. That's why she gets tips.

Everyone pays taxes.

I gotta agree with Young.

I have no sympathy for guides who cry the blues. If you don't like it - get another job.
Someone forgot to mention that the equipment costs and all other related expenses are written off against any revenue taken in - just like any other self-employed person.

Finally, given the fact that a major portion of a guides take is in cash, I'd be very surprised if they report all of it.

(in reply to young)

Post #: 7

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 2:11:45 PM

deadfishred

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Joined: 7/27/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: young

Sorry, I don't feel bad for people who go fishing for a living.

If you don't like it, get a real job.

You sound jealous. Don't you think if it was that easy, everyone would do it? I would NEVER EVER want to guide for a living. Have you ever serously thought through what being a guide entails? A guide on the Salmon River none the less. I'm sorry, but you have no clue. Talk to a professional guide some time, someone who guides for a living. You will change your tune.

(in reply to draketrutta)

Post #: 8

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 2:15:14 PM

deadfishred

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Joined: 7/27/2009
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Let me clarify my previous post by saying that being a guide isn't a terrible job, its great...there's just alot more that goes into it than any other job...its very difficult and stressfull at times. Ask any guide if he loves his job, and he will more than likely say "yes"...but then ask him about how much money he takes home, ask him how many days off he gets when he's not dealing with clients. Ask him how often he gets to see his children, or go to a party, or go out with his friends.

(in reply to deadfishred)

Post #: 9

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 2:48:27 PM

CrossForkWookie

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Joined: 2/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: deadfishred

Ask him how often he gets to see his children, or go to a party, or go out with his friends.

Can't that be said for every other job too? Lots of people make the same $ or less than a guide but yet they gotta do what they gotta do to make a living.......and perhaps see their families even less or have social lives, etc. So I don't by that as a valid excuse.

The going rates for guides should already cover all their operating expenses plus make a profit. If someone isn't charging enough that they have to rely upon tips then perhaps their business model is off. Shouldn't tips should be the icing on the cake? That would be like me going and living a lifestyle I couldn't afford this year under the assumption I get a bonus next year that will make it so I can afford that lifestyle.

I know guides, and yes it is demanding in alot of respects. So is my job. So is yours and alot others. I'm not saying it isn't but don't come crying to me that they have stress that others don't have. We all deal with it and we all choose to do what we do. If we don't like it we are free to find other employment that suits our "needs".

Ok, as far as tips I always tip. Like someone said above if you can see the guide went over and above to help you learn things, show you things then he gets more. If he only goes through the motions and you feel it, then less.

.

(in reply to deadfishred)

Post #: 10

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 5:58:59 PM

waDerboy

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Joined: 10/1/2004
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Many guides do not get 100% of the money paid for a days guiding. Often there is a tackle shop,motel or other guide that sets the price and then keep 25-40% as a finders fee. That is to say if you paid the lodge owner 250 for a day of guided fish the guide that worked his tail off for you only received $150-$200. It is a tough way to make a living.

(in reply to CrossForkWookie)

Post #: 11

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 6:15:55 PM

dimebrite

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Joined: 9/2/2009
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tipping is a choice that a customer who gets provided a service from a professional decides to do or not do. i do believe that all costs and proposed profits should be figured in to running any business being that i run a business myself. tips should not be a prediction of yearly profits. tips should be considered a bonus. i've never used a guide myself, but i would assume that if i ever did i would've tipped them. do i think it's a requirement... no. but to hear someone say that guides are making 100 percent is very ignorant. just like tuna said, guides have to claim their money... and if they don't, the IRS will eventually audit and check their records and then ask how have you lived the past ten years without claiming any money, or so little. And the IRS has no sympathy. THEY WILL WRECK YOU AND THROW ON PENALTIES THAT ARE TRIPLE OF WHAT YOU EVEN OWE THEM.so right there you can easily take 20 percent right off the top. for gear, yes YOUNG AND DRAKE, they can write it off at the end of the year, but what most people don't realize; a tax write off is just a refund on sales tax spent and non taxation on that money spent, because it's not profit. all it is is a minor tax brake for businness expenses. the only benefit a guide would get out of writing off their gear is not paying sales tax on the equipment they bought for themselves or others. at most, maybe they can write off a vehicle or two along with gas. remember though, this only a tax brake.so many people think that write offs are a full refund. don't think tax write offs are breaking the bank for people. and at the end of the year, you don't actually get it back. the government just deducts it from what you owe them. YES... what you owe them. business's do not get tax returns. if i told you what i pay the state and federal each month, you would not believe me. put my insurances on top of that, then you see me held by my neck up against the wall gasping for air ....BUISNESS IS BUISNESS.... DON'T EVER THINK THAT ANYONE RUNNING ANY TYPE OF BUSINESS IS MAKING 100% PROFIT. AND FOR PEAT SAKES, LEAVE THE GUIDES ALONE. HAVE YOUR OPINION AND KEEP IT AT THAT. IS IT REALLY NECESSARY TO MOCK A GUIDE WHO'S JUST TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING DOING WHAT HE LOVES. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RUNNING A BUSINESS.

(in reply to CrossForkWookie)

Post #: 12

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 6:24:24 PM

dimebrite

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/2/2009
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YOUNG I CAN'T RESIST FROM SAYING MORE SINCE I'VE READ BACK AND NOTICED THAT YOU MENTIONED GET A REAL JOB IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. WHAT IS IT YOU CONSIDER A REAL JOB. WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING. DO YOU PUT YOURSELF ABOVE SOMEBODY WHO CHOOSES TO FISH FOR A LIVING. ARE YOU THAT SHALLOW.

(in reply to Hav2Fish)

Post #: 13

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 7:23:05 PM

Uncle Kevin

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Joined: 2/4/2008
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Very few if any guides actually "fish" for a living. They take other people fishing and rarely get the chance themselves to pick up a rod. They are often working 12+ hour days and only a portion of that time is spent on the stream with a client. The rest of the time is spent preparing gear, repairing equipment , etc.

If anyone has ever rowed a drift boat for 4 - 8 hours straight, while rigging lines, baiting hooks, untangling snags and birdnests, all the time trying to put the people in the boat on to the fish then you have lived the life of a guide for a day.

The upside is no office, no desk, and you get to spend your days in some of the greatest places on earth.

Like everything the grass always seems greener.

So to answer the question at the start of the thread I tip 20% if I feel the service I have been given is the best that the person could provide.

_____________________________

...just watch for the twitch and then bring on the thunder!

(in reply to dimebrite)

Post #: 14

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 8:37:27 PM

draketrutta

Posts: 40
Joined: 9/22/2009
Status: offline

Dimebrite:

I have not bashed any guides in this thread, so please don't play that card. My comment pertained to
the ones that claim poverty (and I have met a few). My reply to them was simple - find yourself another job if you can't make a go of it. It's the same response I'd give to anyone else - no matter what their chosen job was.

Furthermore, being a small business owner myself, I am fully aware of how a business operates, their reporting requirements and the oversight tools at the disposal of the IRS. Like most other small business owners, I make quarterly tax payments based on my YTD income statements. The amount of expenses written off against my revenue are a direct reduction of tax owed the govt - based on my applicable tax bracket. They represent much more than simply a giveback of sales tax (which by the way I include as part of my equipment purchases which are written off).

Furthermore, if anyone has any tax savy and maintains up-to-date business records, their year-end target would be to owe 10% of their total tax bill -(not subject to IRS penalty). Many people think it is a great thing to get a big refund from Uncle Sam. IMO it is stupid, because they are providing the govt an interest free loan all year.

Finally, the IRS has no possible way to track cash income that is not claimed by an individual or small business - whether it is a guide that fails to report 20% of their annual income or a laid-off carpenter collecting unemployment who forgets to report the cash he made under the table.
As long as a person does not receive a 1099 form and does get too greedy - the IRS is the least of their concerns.

(in reply to Uncle Kevin)

Post #: 15

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/30/2009 8:38:26 PM

troutslammer

Posts: 134
Joined: 5/31/2009
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a tip shows appreciation for someone who is willing to bust their a... for someone elses enjoyment , go to a bar or restaraunt and don't leave a tip and pray to god that the same waitress or bartender isn't working next time you go in cause the service just might suck ! guides remember people from year to year , if u tip well they will remember it and work even harder next time to try to get more money , no tip and they are like anyone , figure why bust my a... for nothing

(in reply to Uncle Kevin)

Post #: 16

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/31/2009 12:48:43 AM

pafisher

Posts: 2246
Joined: 8/15/2002
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A good guide is worth every penney you pay them if he does what tuna states,teaches you the water,the position of the fish in relation to water flow,how to present the lure,etc.He will cut the learning curve way down and that is worth a little extra if he educates you.When you consider their overhead and grief they endure at times they don't charge that much,they sure won't get rich being a guide.

(in reply to troutslammer)

Post #: 17

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/31/2009 8:02:26 AM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
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dimebrite: A real job is a job in which the person actually produces something tangible. In other words, when they leave work they can show what they've done (e.g. mined 3 tons of coal, framed in a house, laid one square of shingles, transported goods 600 miles, forged 100 tons of steel, etc.).

Showing people how to fish isn't a job. It's a hobby they get paid for. I've shown countless people how to fish. I don't charge them.

Manipulating numbers that represent the goods that people with real jobs have produced (e.g. bankers, accountants, and the like) isn't a real job either. It's useless administration.

If the majority of people still had real jobs like they did a few decades ago we wouldn't be in the crisis we're in today.

(in reply to pafisher)

Post #: 18

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/31/2009 8:04:34 AM

dimebrite

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the whole 100% comment is what got me going drake. sorry if i targeted you. but no matter what, a guide has to claim something even if all he does is cash business. it all catches up sooner or later. i do know it is a standard to tip guides though. just like the appliance delivery guy and the carpet cleaners and what not. me, i'm a plumber, and i never get tipped. everyone thinks we're braking the bank, that's just the nature of my business. personally, i believe a guide should get tipped before some appliance delivery guy. and trust me, those guys expect a tip. tight lines to all...

(in reply to pafisher)

Post #: 19

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/31/2009 9:16:50 AM

young

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Joined: 9/23/2009
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Appliance delivery workers and carpet cleaners work for someone else. They are employees that are paid less than the value of the work they do. If they earn $300 for their boss in a day, they only receive $100. That's why they get tipped.

They have nothing in common with people who are self-employed.

(in reply to dimebrite)

Post #: 20

RE: Tipping a guide - 10/31/2009 11:05:08 AM

dimebrite

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/2/2009
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i understand and somewhat agree with our current crisis. but a job is a job. there are many other reasons we are in the crisis we are in now. but i don't think we need to get in to those. fish should be the main topic of this forum. my only quam was really only the 100 % comment and i'll leave it at that.

(in reply to young)

Post #: 21

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 7:21:32 AM

cappoletti

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/10/2004
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A cash flow of 200 bucks a day is peanuts for a small business owner. Give the guide a tip or dont employ his services. Yeah it looks like a great job and that counts for something. But help the guy out so you can be sure he will be there for you next year.

(in reply to dimebrite)

Post #: 22

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 9:26:55 AM

dimebrite

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/2/2009
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i'm just still waiting to hear what young does for a living since he has so much to say about everyone elses business...

(in reply to cappoletti)

Post #: 23

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 11:34:04 AM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
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If a guide needs more than 200 to stay in business then he should charge more than 200.

(in reply to dimebrite)

Post #: 24

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 3:46:14 PM

dimebrite

Posts: 153
Joined: 9/2/2009
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i guess he's taking the 5th...

(in reply to young)

Post #: 25

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 4:32:13 PM

hot tuna

Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dimebrite

i guess he's taking the 5th...

Hope you didn't mean me (lol)
I just got back from well guiding...
it was a 2 day hunting trip.. when Pro takes clients out , it's not fishing or hunting for the guide, it's teaching, walking, cooking, driving & having to set up & takedown process.. Do I complain , heck no otherwise why would you go through all that work and not play the game...
Does it pay well ?? I think it is a fair charge for the service provided and hopefully a happy client received.
As for supporting a family on that income ?? I made $600.00 (before taxes) for 3 days work, how long would that last until another trip ? (want to hire a guide ) .. Always good thing when the wife has a good job..

Tip or not that’s your choice and I would only expect one as a gratitude and bonus...

_____________________________

http://foreverwildoutfitters.com/

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen

(in reply to dimebrite)

Post #: 26

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 4:38:56 PM

waDerboy

Posts: 2376
Joined: 10/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: young

Appliance delivery workers and carpet cleaners work for someone else. They are employees that are paid less than the value of the work they do. If they earn $300 for their boss in a day, they only receive $100. That's why they get tipped.

They have nothing in common with people who are self-employed.

Did you even read my post.
Most guides get there clients by referral by tackle shops and lodges.
They get 25-40% less than what the client is being charged.
If a client is being charged $300 per day the guide doing 8-10 of labor is getting $180-$225.
Booking a client on you own at full price the next year that has been referred to you will get you blackballed by that booker.

(in reply to young)

Post #: 27

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 4:53:17 PM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
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Can you send me a copy of the sourced report you drew your statistics from?

K thanks.

(in reply to waDerboy)

Post #: 28

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 4:54:55 PM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
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i guess he's taking the 5th...

This thread isn't about me. It's about guides and tipping.

Anyway, I only respond to questions that are asked directly and in proper grammatical form. Even then it's completely at my discretion. If you don't like it, join Homeland Security and break into my house or email account.

(in reply to young)

Post #: 29

RE: Tipping a guide - 11/1/2009 6:20:43 PM

ShutUpNFish

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Joined: 3/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hav2Fish

What would be an appropriate amount to tip your guide for a drift boat trip on the Salmon? Assuming the day was productive, that is.
Thanks.

You tip them what YOU feel they deserve and how much you can afford. There are many factors that come into play....Did he work hard for you, was he respectful and courteous, was he prepared, did you get what you paid for and did you have a good time. Just to name a few. As someone stated above, its not ALL about catching fish.

(in reply to Hav2Fish)

Post #: 30

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