Stinger spoons versus worm harness?

Stinger spoons versus worm harness?

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Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/6/2008 5:35:03 PM

Slay

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I was wondering if anyone else is getting the same results as we are. We use worm harnesses off the downriggers and the dipsies. We put stingers on the end of every line. While we occasionally catch a few eyes on the harnesses themselves, about 80% of our eyes take the stinger spoons.

Is this normal? I don't really care what they bite as long as we get them but I just don't understand the dramatic catch rate of the stingers versus the worm harness. Am I drowning crawlers mostly for nothing?

Also, do you folks put one crawler on each hook, or just use one crawler and place both hooks through it on the harness?

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/6/2008 9:39:36 PM

bluntman

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more than likely a speed issue as we use both all year long and do well on both, but you can definitley run harnesses too fast and spoons too slow

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/6/2008 10:33:37 PM

deetz4352

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Both produce fish for me but as bluntman says its a speed issue for the different types of lures. Faster for stinger spoons for more aggressive fish and slower with crawler harnesses for more passive fish. I only use 1 crawler on harnesses but stick them on both hooks. I have also used berkley power worms on harnesses and have had succsess with them as well. I always keep some on board if i run out of crawlers due to those bait stealin silver bass.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/7/2008 2:56:47 AM

ShutUpNFish

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I found the worm harnesses to work best out of Walnut, but there are times when the spoons will outproduce so I always run both to start. One big crawler on a harness is all you need, hooked from head and mid section leaving a good bit to dangle. For some odd reason, the stingers work well out in Ohio for me...Maybe its because I fish it earlier in the season. Also, give the Gulp crawlers a try...they work well too and less mess. I experimented with the natural, chartruese, black, watermelon and black some last year. Chartuese produced well out of the colored crawlers, but the natural seems to work best of the Gulps. Tight Lines.

< Message edited by ShutUpNFish -- 6/7/2008 2:57:58 AM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/7/2008 5:07:15 PM

Slay

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Oh we use gulp also. So does anyone else run stingers off the end of thier harnesses?

Maybe I need to decide whether to just use one or the other?

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 12:00:19 AM

ShutUpNFish

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Ohhhhh....I misunderstood! I thought you meant stingers as in spoons (Michigan Stingers) DUHHhhhhhhh! I make my own harnesses and I put stingers on all of them! It makes a huge difference in catch results...especially on those short striking eyes. Heres what they look like.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 7:11:50 AM

perchmanbo

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Paul, I see that you modified youre spinner blades. Look pretty good. See ya on the water.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 7:37:43 AM

bingsbaits

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I like the red line.. What kind is it ??

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 7:55:04 AM

perchmanbo

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Bings, he told me that its called Cajun Red. Used them last year and had great results

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 10:24:46 AM

ShutUpNFish

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Right, 30lb. Cajun Red made by Shakepeare. I use that or 30lb Stren High Impact Green. I also sometimes use blood red hooks too like the middle harness below.

< Message edited by ShutUpNFish -- 6/8/2008 10:26:28 AM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 1:27:22 PM

Slay

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Yes, I did mean Michigan stingers. We put the small ones (2/34" long I think) on a 3foot leader tied onto a barrel swivel at the end of each harness. We almost always catch our eyes on the stingers. Not sure why, maybe they think it's baitfish following the harness?

Works pretty well though. I just don't understand why they seldom take the worm harness itself.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 8:53:49 PM

Carpet Bagger

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Harnesses will outfish spoons (especially stingers) every day of the week....PERIOD...and I would love to see someone prove otherwise...Please feel free to contact me if you wish to take me up on this...

Dont get me wrong, Spoons do have their place, they are great for salmon, steelhead, and walleye will hit them, but for a go to I always stick to harnesses. I have trolled spoons and have had luck on them and in fact done quite well with them, but never as well as harnesses.

here are my custom creations...these look absolutly sick in the water and throw off so much color and flash.
(These are all fishlander blades.)

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/8/2008 11:16:22 PM

chauncy

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Which one produced the best for you today? And how far back on the dipsys. I've never had any success using dipsys but i bought some more to try this season. They say to practice with them and i'll get the hang of them but all i get is tangles and discouraged. So i use jets and spoons. Dont get the limits like a lot of guys do but i get some. Looking to improve my catch rate this season.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 9:01:45 AM

Carpet Bagger

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Chauncy,

Best color was Boy/Girl in copper. We caught probaly 5 fish on it including a nice big 8lb fish.

Best colors I use are shrimp, watermelon, purple voodoo, lime anti-freeze, boy/girl, and red death.

in the 22-27ft i was running dipsys at 3.5 back 60ft and cookie (3/0 dipsys) on 1 setting back 80ft, trolled 1.8-2.0mph.

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 6/9/2008 10:21:22 AM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 10:29:30 AM

Slay

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Hmm..interesting. We seem to catch almost all of our eyes off the michigan stingers. They seldom take the harness itself. So they certainly outfish the harness for us. I am trying to understand why that is. We do manage to limit ou, but it takes a long time. Maybe we are trolling the harnesses too fast. We run about 2.5 - 3 MPH generally with the harness/michigan stinger combination on each line.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 10:52:21 AM

Carpet Bagger

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Slow down to 1.7-2mph if you are running harnesses.

Stingers are designed to be run at higher speeds in excess of 2mph and dont have much wobble under 2mph. Might want to look into some other types of spoons that are of higher quality than the lackluster paintjob of the Michigan stingers.

I run alot of fishlander products and find their paintjob to be superior and similar in color to that of stinger. The fishlander spoons have a slimmer nose and wide bottom with allows them to have a very nice wobble at speeds under 2mph and up to 3.5mph. Stinger tend to have a wider spoon at the nose which requires alot more effort and pull to get the full action out of the spoon.

Another brands you will want to see is YECK and Dreamweaver. Finish actually stays on these spoons much better than the stingers. Im not saying the paint doesnt come off, but in order for that to happen you actually have to catch fish.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 11:53:31 AM

Slay

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So your saying that the harnesses are travelling too fast so they are taking the Michigan stingers instead?
I just thought they liked the stinger spoons better than the worm harness.
That is a definate possibility. I will take a look at other stypes of spoons then and slow down. I don't like hearing people talking about limiting out in 2-3 hours when I am putting in 7.

I would like to limit out early so I can put in some perch fishing time for a change.
That hasn't happened yet.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 12:29:40 PM

Carpet Bagger

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Slay some days we can boat 24 walleyes in 3hrs when its hot and heavy...I very rarely run boards. All dipsys and harnesses pulled from 1.7-2mph. generally speaking I dont usually run more than 6 rods. Just personal preference...

If you want to limit out early my biggest suggestion to you would be get on the water early. The morning bite for walleyes is key. I generally launch at walnut at 4am. Beats the crowd and gets me on the fish early when they are really tuned up.

Ive had days where the morning is hot and heavy and we boat all but 3 or 4 fish early then the sun gets high in the sky and we struggle to put the last few in the boat. Almost as if they disappear.

Other days its just non stop all day.

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 6/9/2008 12:35:04 PM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 1:05:28 PM

Slay

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We run 6 rods also. 4 dipsy's and 2 on the down riggers. We usually get there at about 5:30 am.
Believe me, I know how tough tgetting hose last 3 or 4 eyes can be.

I will certainly look into those spoons. I don't want to not have them attached the harnesses because they produce so well, so I better get some that can handle the lower speeds so I can entice them with the worm harnesses as well.

Thanks!

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 1:12:40 PM

Dream Catcher

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You are pulling harnesses way too fast . Listen to CB on this I would bet my paycheck nothing outfishes harnesses out of Erie , PA for eyes except commercial nets. As the water warms the speed can be slightly increased . General rule of thumb is colder the water slower the presentation. Saturday I caught 3 drifting for a half hour in a freak wind @ 1.3 MPH on harnesses ; after that the wind would not blow us fast enough to drift effectively. Slow down ...... I pull from 1.5 - 2.3 MPH depending on water temps .

I would not put a spoon on the same leader as a harness ; it probably interferes with how your willow blades spin with that trailing spoon pulling it down .

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 2:52:36 PM

Carpet Bagger

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To each his own, but in my opinion i will put worm harnesses up against just about anything in a side by side comparision. Im not saying you are going to catch huge fish, or bigger fish, but more fish at a faster rate...yes...

Picture sunday. We got 13 walleyes total. Ranged from 19-28" most in the 23-25" range. theres no discrimination with walleye and worm harnesses...they all will go for em.

When you eat dinner what do you want...Does it look good??...taste good??...smell good?? If so i bet you want to eat it...With a harness you are appealing to alot of senses of that fish. Sight (flash and color), Sound (blade vibration), Smell (worms have some scent), Taste (YUM WORMS!), and Touch (bam hookset)...

Spoons only hit on a few senses of Sound and sight...somedays that just isnt enough...fishing is a brainless activity...Find fish, find depth, catch fish...But every little additional adjustment you make as an angler has a small impact on what you catch and how well you catch it. Every little detail and small observation you make and compromise to helps you become a much more successful and consistant fishermen...Sometiems its just depth, or a small adjustment in speed, or a particular color, mayber running a bait just a little shallower or deeper, and sometimes just dumb luck...but I fully believe that if you catch fish faster or more than another person that you are doing something that is just a little bit different and appeals to that fish just a little bit more.

Everyone has worm harnesses...some tie their own...some buy their own...custom painted...hammered finish...flat finish...1 blade? or 2?...blade size...blade type...hooks...bead colors...there is so much elaboration that can be made out of this lure to make it just slightly more effective than another.

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 6/10/2008 10:15:02 AM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 3:47:03 PM

Noplacelikehome

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C. B. I am sure you know what you are talking about BUT when the water is loaded with junk fish, a larger spoon(over 3 inches) would really give a crawler harness a run for its money. The harness is usually stripped as soon as it gets let out(mostly silver bass). Where as a spoon NEVER has to be rebaited. Since it is in the water longer than the harness it will catch more fish, I am not saying always, but we have out fished harnesses a bunch of times UNDER those CONDITIONS. Just thought I would give you a senerio to ponder. We fish spoons about 95% of the time.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 3:57:41 PM

Carpet Bagger

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You have never caught a junk fish on a 3" spoon? I sure have. I understand what you are saying, however still just cause your bait is now less likely to catch junk fish it is also less likely to catch walleyes when you finally hit them. Yes i have hit piles of junk with my harnesses and gone though many dozen worms, however I've also hit big groups of walleyes with them and loaded in 24 eyes in 2 or 3 hrs with 5-6 rods.

IF I could find a lure that worked better than a worm harness does in the waters of Lake Erie i would use it exclusivly and promote it to its fullest capability.

I am on Pro Staff with Fishlander, they make some of the finest spoons you have ever seen solid brass with a great durable paint job, in many different sizes, i run them on my riggers with decent results, but nothing catches fish as well as the harness blades they produce. If i could catch fish with spoons as well as i can with harnesses, trust me, I'd be using them because I have probaly the best source for them in the Great Lakes with Fishlander.

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 6/9/2008 4:02:00 PM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 9:46:58 PM

Brad1

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Carpet Bagger,

Just order two 22" trolling bags from Amish outfitters as a result of your posting the recommended trolling speed for harnesses. I've always run about 2.5 mph. Sounds like I've been trolling too fast all this time. Also, I'd really like to get more info on how to make harnesses with those beautiful willow leaf blades you've posted on this site. I'd like to find out how to make them, and where to buy the materials.

Thanks for the good info.

Brad

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/9/2008 10:14:57 PM

Carpet Bagger

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From: Greenville, PA
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The amish bags are probaly the best you will find. Yep you need to slow down with harnesses.

The blades can be purchased from Fishlander or from Great Lakes Guide Online (you can see the whole color chart there and they have alot of the willows in stock), but are not cheap by any means over a $1 per blade generally. All components and beads can be bought from netcraft, stamina, or hagens. Just yahoo or google the sites above, I dont want to get in trouble for posting competing sites on here. They should come up number 1 in the searches.

I tie all my erie harnesses up with 30lb Yo-Zuri Hybrid. Its a florocarbon co-polymer that has some great knot strength as well as abrasion resistance. I have never had it fail, but I do retie them once they start getting worn out. I also use high quality, 1/0 or 2/0, hooks from VMC, Gamakatsu, or Matzuo.

There all my secrets are out...lol

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 6/10/2008 10:23:40 AM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/10/2008 9:15:16 AM

griffon

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I hear a lot of talk about Dipseys here, but don't here anyone talking about using bottom walkers. I would think that when the walleyes are shallow, bottom walkers would work very well. I know that most places I have fished for eyes, that was the preferred method when drifting (either that or a jig tipped with meat).

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/10/2008 10:08:09 AM

Carpet Bagger

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Griffon, You are correct. Bottom bouncers work extremly well when walleyes are in shallower. The only disadvantage i have with them is the limited amount of rods you can run off the boat when compared to dipsys.

You could always run a few out clip them on an inline board and put them off the side and still run 2 off your boat with great success when the fish are in shallow. Generally however the walleyes will only stay in there while the food is good and the water temp is low. Usually by july the amount of fish in there is limited (depending on the weather), not to mention the amount of junk in there along with them increases as well. With this 90degree heat we keep having every day, I cannot imagine the shallow water stuff to keep going much longer as the water temp continues to rise each day.

Walleyes are generally a colder water fish, they like to lay on the thermocline, which is the break where the upper portion of the water is significantly warmer than the lower part. Generally this playes into their eating habits since this is where you will find most natural forage fish like emerald shiners, which are also a colder water fish.

Dipsys shine when you can run them at suspended fish. We fish a relativly deep section of water here in Erie, PA. When the peak summer months off walnut creek hit you are generally fishing walleyes over 60-70ft of water suspended 35-50ft down. Dipsys allow you to get that bait to that precise depth and keep it there. Adding linecounters to the mix with dipsy divers allow you to put that bait right back down where it took the last fish and continually run multiple rods at a fast pace with great success. Its a repetition thing. They also work very well in the shallows if you can run them 5-10 ft off the bottom which is what alot of guys do just because they are used to it.

Dipsys you set...you wait for the firedrill to start...ive had mornings where all i got is 6 rods layin in the bottom of the boat and fish all over the deck....and everyone is laughing...and my dad is just yelling, "come on lets get these rods back in the water"...its a real treat when this happens...Organized Chaos

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 6/10/2008 10:27:03 AM >

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/10/2008 11:49:04 AM

Dream Catcher

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Bottom walkers for drifting or trolling ?On Saturday a 1/2 or 1 ounce weight 5 ft in front of a harness was the ticket when the wind would blow enough to get us to atleast 1.3MPH . Pickin eyes up close to the bottom in 20 - 25 FOW Any slower & they won't touch it. Easy pickings when they are shallow. At a faster troll I could not see bottom bouncers being effective ; but drifting is another story ....

When I drift I like to stagger different weights ; in doing so it spreads your fishing lines out . 2 poles at opposite ends of the boat on 1/2 ounce with more line out to hit the critical depth , as you add more weight the less line you have out , the next two poles 1 ounce , the last two would be an ounce & 1/2 . If you think about it the presentation is slightly different for each angle presented . .Works for me and I get the opportunity to bag some nice eyes on light tackle (perch poles w/ 6 lb fireline) . Also I use different blades on harnesses some rigged w colorados / some with willows and they both picked up eyes Sat.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/10/2008 11:53:32 AM

Carpet Bagger

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dream Catcher

Bottom walkers for drifting or trolling ?On Saturday a 1/2 or 1 ounce weight 5 ft in front of a harness was the ticket when the wind would blow enough to get us to atleast 1.3MPH . Pickin eyes up close to the bottom in 20 - 25 FOW Any slower & they won't touch it. Easy pickings when they are shallow. At a faster troll I could not see bottom bouncers being effective ; but drifting is another story ....

When I drift I like to stagger different weights ; in doing so it spreads your fishing lines out . 2 poles at opposite ends of the boat on 1/2 ounce with more line out to hit the critical depth , as you add more weight the less line you have out , the next two poles 1 ounce , the last two would be an ounce & 1/2 . If you think about it the presentation is slightly different for each angle presented . .Works for me and I get the opportunity to bag some nice eyes on light tackle (perch poles w/ 6 lb fireline) . Also I use different blades on harnesses some rigged w colorados / some with willows and they both picked up eyes Sat.

Ive already used a 3oz bottom bouncer in close with a harness and caught many walleyes on it. Drop it right down let it hit bottom then engage it let it drag, then let it out to bottom again and engage it. It will hover over the bottom when trolled and occasionally tick bottom. Lots of fun getting a 25" eye on a 3oz bouncer on a medium action rod.

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RE: Stinger spoons versus worm harness? - 6/10/2008 12:04:45 PM

Dream Catcher

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Trolling . Thats pretty sweet . Never would've thought to try .... I'll give it a go if they are still shallow by Saturday ...LOL Was looking at lake temp map looks to be getting around 68 off of erie . 10 degree warm up in 10 days . Sheesh

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