STOCKED FISH????

STOCKED FISH????

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STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:06:29 AM

PAFISHERMAN1981

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The steelies may be stocked but they do go out into the lake(which is a very big lake) and then come back in so then aren't they considered wild then? (because they have the choice to run back in) I mean its not like guys fish them out like the local stocking around my house where in two days the trout are gone???? I DONT KNOW, WHAT DO YOU GUYS LIKE ABOUT THIS ISSUE.....

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:16:46 AM

MackJ

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They may be "wildish," but they aren't wild fish by most people's definition of the term, which is "born in the stream/river/lake."

(in reply to PAFISHERMAN1981)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:40:51 AM

KJH807

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Joined: 11/26/2006
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they are not wild fish
they are not native fish
they are stocked fish

is it that time of year for the steelhead vs resident rainbow vs steelbow-rainhead debate?

(in reply to MackJ)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:49:00 AM

PAFISHERMAN1981

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KJH807

they are not wild fish
they are not native fish
they are stocked fish

is it that time of year for the steelhead vs resident rainbow vs steelbow-rainhead debate?

No just wondering! Thats all....

(in reply to KJH807)

Post #: 4

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 10:01:52 AM

KJH807

Posts: 1460
Joined: 11/26/2006
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haha

i think I am going to bump the thread for old times
it was almost a year ago

I was actually a good read and a good convo with no personal attacks

(in reply to PAFISHERMAN1981)

Post #: 5

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 10:16:04 AM

wishfishin

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yeah, and I learned a new word: "smoltification"

(in reply to KJH807)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 10:47:31 AM

Bughawk

Posts: 6107
Status: online

This is a seasonal discussion. The first are stocked. The fish are not native to the area - actually ther are no native trout in PA - brookies are actually char and not trout. There has been some talk about a very small amount of natural reproduction in the streams, so there is a very remote chance a fish you catch may be a "wild" fish and not stocked. The fish do spend a good portion of their life in the lake before they return so one could argue they have become "wild". It is a debate that honestly has no end.

The bottom line for me is steelhead are fun to catch, I enjoy fishing for them and don't really care if they are natural, native, stocked, wild, semi-wild, or whatever. Get out when you can and have a good time.

_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

(in reply to wishfishin)

Post #: 7

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 10:52:55 AM

KJH807

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i don't want to start another semantics debate
but this is another part of fishing i like
Knowing exactly what I am catching

wild- means they are reproducing

I don't think there can be a "semi-wild" classification

erie has stocked holdovers

(in reply to Bughawk)

Post #: 8

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 11:32:51 AM

Cold

Posts: 995
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From: Latrobe, PA
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So lately I've been hearing that steelhead are not exactly trout. How is this? I was under the impression that steelhead DNA and rainbow trout DNA were one and the same and that the same baby fish may become either depending on where its bucket ends up (Erie trib, or another creek). Is this right?

(in reply to KJH807)

Post #: 9

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 12:00:36 PM

KJH807

Posts: 1460
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steelhead and rainbow trout all both Oncorhynchus mykiss
http://forums.fishusa.com/m_41627/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

Basic breakdown as I understand it...

when people say that there is a "mutt" in erie
it has do with cross breeding of strains
the strains will effect when the fish come in
ohio stocks a strain that runs in spring
PA has the mutt that will run mostly in fall but also in spring

(in reply to Cold)

Post #: 10

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 12:24:31 PM

MackJ

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I caught a fresh steelhead earlier this year, and it "went wild" for about 30 seconds!

(in reply to KJH807)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 12:27:36 PM

Cold

Posts: 995
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From: Latrobe, PA
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@ MackJ

So by my understanding, we can compare "Rainbow Trout" to "dog", and "steelhead", "lake run", "lanklocked", "the PA mutt", "the OH mutt", etc. can be compared to "beagle", "bulldog", "spaniel", "dachsund", "mutt", etc.
This is speaking in terms of a scientist, of course.

Right?

(in reply to MackJ)

Post #: 12

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 1:38:30 PM

JEB

Posts: 1144
Joined: 10/27/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cold

So lately I've been hearing that steelhead are not exactly trout. How is this? I was under the impression that steelhead DNA and rainbow trout DNA were one and the same and that the same baby fish may become either depending on where its bucket ends up (Erie trib, or another creek). Is this right?

The rainbow trout, which is actually a member of the Pacific salmon family, is stocked in six continents and can be found in freshwater streams, rivers and lakes, not to mention saltwater bays and open ocean as steelhead (the sea-run form of the fish, which returns to freshwater during the spawn).
Retrived from: http://flyfishing.about.com/od/fishspecies/a/rainbowtrout.htm
The rainbow is actually a salmon !

< Message edited by JEB -- 11/13/2008 1:41:25 PM >

(in reply to Cold)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 2:01:34 PM

Bwayangler

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What about brown trout? What's the story there?
and why are no rainbow's stocked in erie tributaries for regular trout season?

(in reply to JEB)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 2:13:23 PM

Cold

Posts: 995
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From: Latrobe, PA
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Because they all escape out into the lake, never to return...

(in reply to Bwayangler)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 2:15:37 PM

Skip16503

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From: Erie Pa
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There are Rainbows stocked in the Erie Tribs Millions of them

_____________________________

Mile Creek Custom Rods

(in reply to Cold)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 2:15:53 PM

KJH807

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Joined: 11/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bwayangler
...
and why are no rainbow's stocked in erie tributaries for regular trout season?

beacuse it is not an approved trout water and can't support a resident population of fish

(in reply to Bwayangler)

Post #: 17

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 2:29:08 PM

Cold

Posts: 995
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From: Latrobe, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KJH807

beacuse it is not an approved trout water and can't support a resident population of fish

Really?! I thought it was considered pristine wilderness area, and it was classified as a heritage water. There's some great little native brookies in there, you just gotta know where to look. It's a really rustic experience.

(in reply to KJH807)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 2:59:01 PM

KJH807

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Joined: 11/26/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cold

Really?! I thought it was considered pristine wilderness area, and it was classified as a heritage water. There's some great little native brookies in there, you just gotta know where to look. It's a really rustic experience.

you've been spending too much time at 16mile heitage wilderness perserve

(in reply to Cold)

Post #: 19

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 5:39:41 PM

JEB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bwayangler

What about brown trout? What's the story there?
and why are no rainbow's stocked in erie tributaries for regular trout season?

Browns were brought over from Europe originally, we have wild fish in PA, just not natives. They stock browns for regular trout season in Elk & 20 Mile creeks.
The PFBC is now stocking fingerling brown trout to hopefully support a fall run of them mixed in with the steelhead in the near future.

The regular rainbows you are refering to are not stocked due to fear they might reproduce with the approx 1-3%(Guys are my #'s right?) of our steeleheads that actually spawn in the Erie tribs. Plus a lot of people would not be able to tell if the fish was a stockie rainbow or a jack steelhead, thus increasing the possibilty of keeping a lot of younger steelheads. Hope that helps answer your ?'s.

< Message edited by JEB -- 11/13/2008 5:46:55 PM >

(in reply to Bwayangler)

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RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 5:47:34 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1653
Status: offline

First off, lets define "wild", so everyone is on the same page.
By Executive order of Genieman77, the term "wild", will hence forth and for ever be defined as a naturally reproduced Erie trib steelhedz

seriously '81, "wild" is generally recognized as naturally reproduced and nothing else.
(not to be coRnfuzed with "native"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cold

@ MackJ

So by my understanding, we can compare "Rainbow Trout" to "dog", and "steelhead", "lake run", "lanklocked", "the PA mutt", "the OH mutt", etc. can be compared to "beagle", "bulldog", "spaniel", "dachsund", "mutt", etc.
This is speaking in terms of a scientist, of course.

Right?

Yes, that's right for the most part.
You have the right idea.
But "land locked", or "lake/ocean run", don't apply.
cause a steelie will always be a rainbow, but a land locked rainbow will never be a steelie.
It has to travel and mature in a BIG pond (either ocean or great lakes) to be considered a steelie

There are many strains of steelhead.
You dog breed analogy is perfect.
The common strains stocked in these parts that I know of are Manistee, (Michigan and Ohio) Skamania, (Michigan) and PA's Mutt fish.
(I don't know what strain NY stocks)

PA's "mutt" fish label really doesn't apply in a technical sense IMO, if we use the dog breed apology.
It may have started out as a "mix breed" pup at one time, but after so many generations and generations, it's become it's own breed, essentially.

clear as mUdd, right?

..L.T.A.

(in reply to Cold)

Post #: 21

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 6:09:56 PM

Bwayangler

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skip16503

There are Rainbows stocked in the Erie Tribs Millions of them

Are you referring to the fingerlings?

(in reply to Skip16503)

Post #: 22

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 6:30:00 PM

Bwayangler

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Joined: 10/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bwayangler

What about brown trout? What's the story there?
and why are no rainbow's stocked in erie tributaries for regular trout season?

Browns were brought over from Europe originally, we have wild fish in PA, just not natives. They stock browns for regular trout season in Elk & 20 Mile creeks.
The PFBC is now stocking fingerling brown trout to hopefully support a fall run of them mixed in with the steelhead in the near future.

The regular rainbows you are refering to are not stocked due to fear they might reproduce with the approx 1-3%(Guys are my #'s right?) of our steeleheads that actually spawn in the Erie tribs. Plus a lot of people would not be able to tell if the fish was a stockie rainbow or a jack steelhead, thus increasing the possibilty of keeping a lot of younger steelheads. Hope that helps answer your ?'s.

Thanks, That does help out, I really hope a run of brown's exists in the future. Although i believe it might ruin the fun of catching a big brown.

So the browns that are caught in the tribs are those stocked during the regular fishing season? Are they spawning? or trying to?

(in reply to JEB)

Post #: 23

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 6:42:50 PM

JEB

Posts: 1144
Joined: 10/27/2001
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bwayangler

quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bwayangler

What about brown trout? What's the story there?
and why are no rainbow's stocked in erie tributaries for regular trout season?

Browns were brought over from Europe originally, we have wild fish in PA, just not natives. They stock browns for regular trout season in Elk & 20 Mile creeks.
The PFBC is now stocking fingerling brown trout to hopefully support a fall run of them mixed in with the steelhead in the near future.

The regular rainbows you are refering to are not stocked due to fear they might reproduce with the approx 1-3%(Guys are my #'s right?) of our steeleheads that actually spawn in the Erie tribs. Plus a lot of people would not be able to tell if the fish was a stockie rainbow or a jack steelhead, thus increasing the possibilty of keeping a lot of younger steelheads. Hope that helps answer your ?'s.

Thanks, That does help out, I really hope a run of brown's exists in the future. Although i believe it might ruin the fun of catching a big brown.

So the browns that are caught in the tribs are those stocked during the regular fishing season? Are they spawning? or trying to?

The browns that are now being caught in Erie are yes, retuns from the regular trout season stockings or strays from NY. Fish will not always return to the same stream that they were stocked in, even as smolts. They catch salmon out of Erie and Pa does not stock them anymore, they migrate from Lake Huron & Lake Ontario. I don't think the browns are actually spawning due to the low number of them, but the urge to move upstream is still there. You never know what you can hook into when fishing the erie tribs. I've caught Kings(1981), Cohos, browns & steelheads. I've seen photos of Pink salmon & lake trout caught as well. All the great lakes are connected, so in theory a fish could travel into all of them, and some do wander quit a bit.

(in reply to Bwayangler)

Post #: 24

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:15:49 PM

egg sac

Posts: 2512
Joined: 10/2/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: genieman77

There are many strains of steelhead.
You dog breed analogy is perfect.
The common strains stocked in these parts that I know of are Manistee, (Michigan and Ohio) Skamania, (Michigan) and PA's Mutt fish.
(I don't know what strain NY stocks)

PA's "mutt" fish label really doesn't apply in a technical sense IMO, if we use the dog breed apology.
It may have started out as a "mix breed" pup at one time, but after so many generations and generations, it's become it's own breed, essentially.

clear as mUdd, right?

..L.T.A.

You forgot about Chambers creek strain, London strain and Gonaronska strain ..I do belive the NY steelies are Chambers creek strain. From what has been told to me in the past our PA muts are part Manistee, part Skamania, part Chambers creek, part Gonaronska, part London and part domestic rainbow.

_____________________________

SO MANY FISH SO LITTLE TIME.
WHY ARE ALL THE PLACES I HAVE YET 2 FISH SO FAR AWAY?

(in reply to genieman77)

Post #: 25

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:38:30 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1653
Status: offline

Thanks Eggy

Don't know about the other strains you mentioned, but London strain is no longer stocked in Ohio and hasn't been for years and years.
Manistee is what Ohio stocks.
I've heard thru the vine they're tinkering to try make a Fall runner too.

..L.T.A.

(in reply to egg sac)

Post #: 26

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 9:58:06 PM

bluehalo

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Joined: 10/29/2008
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My understanding is once a trout makes it thru a season, although it IS stocked, they are referred to as "holdovers".
And since some of you fellers seem to know about rainbow strains and geneology, all this talk about onchorynkus mykiss? What ever happened to salmo gardineri ?

(in reply to genieman77)

Post #: 27

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/13/2008 10:21:51 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1653
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluehalo
What ever happened to salmo gardineri ?

is that the suff at the grocery store that comes in a glass jar with hot or mild peppers and a few other viggies??

I prefer the mild, personally.

..L.T.A.

(in reply to bluehalo)

Post #: 28

RE: STOCKED FISH???? - 11/14/2008 5:37:26 AM

casts_by_fly

Posts: 2638
Joined: 10/18/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bluehalo

My understanding is once a trout makes it thru a season, although it IS stocked, they are referred to as "holdovers".
And since some of you fellers seem to know about rainbow strains and geneology, all this talk about onchorynkus mykiss? What ever happened to salmo gardineri ?

halo,

'Salmo' is the old nomenclature. Salmo refers to atlantic salmon and relatives. Brown trout fall under that category as they are very closely related to atlantic salmon. Rainbows were originally named salmo because the people who named them were from the east, had worked with brown trout and relatives, and found browns and rainbows to be closely related (as are all of the trout families). However, recent research says that rainbows are more closely related to the pacific salmon species, thus the Oncorhynchus naming.

Thanks,
Rick

(in reply to bluehalo)

Post #: 29

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