SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP

SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP

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SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 9/30/2008 6:21:54 PM

fly1on

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline

Since theres not much going on fish wise lately. Would anyone care to share their personal views on private ownership of the river?

Check the link below for interesting U.S. Supreme Court Rulings from long ago

Personally I think noone can own a river and it is public to the high water mark. Now you got Yankee Angler owner Dawn Rucando who thinks she can cash in on a public area....its BS man and the revolutionary war was started over lesser greivances!

http://www.adventuresports.com/river/nors/us-law-facts.htm

Post #: 1

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/1/2008 8:31:20 PM

OldSalt

Posts: 213
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline

I'd put this one to rest real quick, too many open issues relating to many different locations, rights and rivers. Yes you can own rivers, the land under and adjacent to, riparian rights, access, and you can even own and fight over the water that runs thru it. The Colorado and the Rio Grande are perfect examples. I own a section of river that runs thru my property, the whole damn thing, yet it is still controlled by the Dept. of Environmental Protection.

So, as I said, too many non-Salmon River issues here.

Think fishing, it may not seem good fishing to you, but they are there.

Tight lines,

OldSalt

(in reply to fly1on)

Post #: 2

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/2/2008 7:22:18 AM

jon_e_si

Posts: 338
Joined: 5/4/2006
Status: offline

There was a court case a few years back involving a fisherman who took a boat into Black Pond (Jefferson County) and I believe he won, but could not anchor there!

(in reply to OldSalt)

Post #: 3

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/2/2008 10:23:37 AM

fly1on

Posts: 21
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline

Your right OldSalt (about the putting it to rest) This is not a fishing topic, its a legal topic and should be discussed in another board.

Especially since there are steelies in the river !!
A buddy of mine just came back from S.R. and said they really got into steelies and browns from the lower fly zone down to the schoolhouse pool. even landed a couple. (sept 28-30)

(in reply to fly1on)

Post #: 4

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/6/2008 6:57:58 PM

TheFishbum

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Since theres not much going on fish wise lately. Would anyone care to share their personal views on private ownership of the river?

Private ownership of the streambed is the norm for property deeds going back over 200 years. The Federal Courts have ruled that such deeds are in deed legal and defensible. As for this issue being one the Revolutionary war was fought over you are right to a point. The war was fought to guarantee that owners of property could not have it usurped by the CROWN. Private ownership of property is one of the foundations of the constitution.
If you are referring to the issue in Pulaski, then you should understand that for 5 years the owner of the property warned that rude behaviour, trash, litter etc, would cause her to close the property to all but guests and customers. After 5 years she got fed up with having to clean up the trash, run the store, clean the lodge and have her guests accosted by rude and knuckleheaded fishermen. I believe if you check some of the video shot recently you will find some of that behaviour, like the young man who continually threw rocks into the river even after being asked by people behind the VFW to stop. Then there was the Smokin Man who screamed at the top of his lungs for several hours and finally was escorted from the river by a DEC officer.
As for the legality? DEC has ruled that she DOES control the streambed as it says in her deed to the middle of the river. Tickets have been given to at least 2 people and 2 others were let off.
One of the best examples of how rude and thoughtless people are is the incident last weekend. People kept crossing the property but DEC was not called until one man stopped and fished on the property, and when asked for his license pointed at his Rear End. DEC arrived 40 minutes later and the man was gone but 2 young boys were crossing the property who had been told it was private.. NOT IN THE RIVER mind you but on dry land. After the officer talked to the father they came back and stood on the bridge with their father screaming that I (Yep thats me the most hated man in Pulaski) had called the DEC on them and gotten them busted. WRONG. NO TICKET was issued to the boys. They left on their own. Then another JERK I will call Puddin Tain, started screaming at the top of his lungs that it was Unamerican.. Well let me tell you about America.. Private Property, means PRIVATE.. that the owner can do anything they wish with the property. Should she chose to she could sell it to PETA or the HSUS and you would really be messed up.
BUT let me tell you about this fine American. She is the only store in Pulaski that offers 15% discounts to the active military, and is on Tuesday the 7th providing a FREE trip to 2 boys from Fort Drum who are headed for a second tour of Iraq. Yet people call her UnAmerican.. when that is so far from the truth.
The boys in question later in the day accosted her in a Restaurant saying SHE had gotten them in trouble.. Bovine Fecal Matter.. the boys and their father got themselves in trouble by tresspassing and denying her right to control her property and protect it from ignorant jerks and litterers, and smokers who throw butts in the river.
The one jerk threatened to kick my ass if I left the store.. how proud his mother and father must be. Shame on you Puddin Tain, your shout them down tactics were exactly those used by Fidel Castro and Kruschev in the UN .. the only UnAmerican activity is that of the people denying Yankee Fly and Tackle its right under the US Constitution to control its property as decided by New York Laws.
Jim Dicken
jimd072@aol.com
PS.. Puddin Tain I still maintain you are a coward.

(in reply to fly1on)

Post #: 5

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/6/2008 8:01:25 PM

SPIKER

Posts: 98
Joined: 1/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheFishbum

quote:

Since theres not much going on fish wise lately. Would anyone care to share their personal views on private ownership of the river?

Private ownership of the streambed is the norm for property deeds going back over 200 years. The Federal Courts have ruled that such deeds are in deed legal and defensible. As for this issue being one the Revolutionary war was fought over you are right to a point. The war was fought to guarantee that owners of property could not have it usurped by the CROWN. Private ownership of property is one of the foundations of the constitution.
If you are referring to the issue in Pulaski, then you should understand that for 5 years the owner of the property warned that rude behaviour, trash, litter etc, would cause her to close the property to all but guests and customers. After 5 years she got fed up with having to clean up the trash, run the store, clean the lodge and have her guests accosted by rude and knuckleheaded fishermen. I believe if you check some of the video shot recently you will find some of that behaviour, like the young man who continually threw rocks into the river even after being asked by people behind the VFW to stop. Then there was the Smokin Man who screamed at the top of his lungs for several hours and finally was escorted from the river by a DEC officer.
As for the legality? DEC has ruled that she DOES control the streambed as it says in her deed to the middle of the river. Tickets have been given to at least 2 people and 2 others were let off.
One of the best examples of how rude and thoughtless people are is the incident last weekend. People kept crossing the property but DEC was not called until one man stopped and fished on the property, and when asked for his license pointed at his Rear End. DEC arrived 40 minutes later and the man was gone but 2 young boys were crossing the property who had been told it was private.. NOT IN THE RIVER mind you but on dry land. After the officer talked to the father they came back and stood on the bridge with their father screaming that I (Yep thats me the most hated man in Pulaski) had called the DEC on them and gotten them busted. WRONG. NO TICKET was issued to the boys. They left on their own. Then another JERK I will call Puddin Tain, started screaming at the top of his lungs that it was Unamerican.. Well let me tell you about America.. Private Property, means PRIVATE.. that the owner can do anything they wish with the property. Should she chose to she could sell it to PETA or the HSUS and you would really be messed up.
BUT let me tell you about this fine American. She is the only store in Pulaski that offers 15% discounts to the active military, and is on Tuesday the 7th providing a FREE trip to 2 boys from Fort Drum who are headed for a second tour of Iraq. Yet people call her UnAmerican.. when that is so far from the truth.
The boys in question later in the day accosted her in a Restaurant saying SHE had gotten them in trouble.. Bovine Fecal Matter.. the boys and their father got themselves in trouble by tresspassing and denying her right to control her property and protect it from ignorant jerks and litterers, and smokers who throw butts in the river.
The one jerk threatened to kick my ass if I left the store.. how proud his mother and father must be. Shame on you Puddin Tain, your shout them down tactics were exactly those used by Fidel Castro and Kruschev in the UN .. the only UnAmerican activity is that of the people denying Yankee Fly and Tackle its right under the US Constitution to control its property as decided by New York Laws.
Jim Dicken
jimd072@aol.com
PS.. Puddin Tain I still maintain you are a coward.

Take Salmon River and shove it up your

!!!!

(in reply to TheFishbum)

Post #: 6

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/6/2008 8:17:56 PM

metalslayer

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/29/2002
Status: online

I am in favor of the land owner's rights to do w/ as she wishes--but the vids of foul hooked salmon doin cartwheels I'll pass on---if the vids weren't so grainy I could blow them up and see the hooks in the bellies and arses

_____________________________

Steel on a pin---so easy a caveman can do it.

(in reply to SPIKER)

Post #: 7

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/6/2008 11:49:16 PM

salmotrutta

Posts: 1179
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

So are you the guy who's been sitting in the chair along the river then? Not that it matters- just asking.
Is the shop open? I was up a couple weeks ago. No lights & a note on the door. No I didn't get out & read the note.

(in reply to metalslayer)

Post #: 8

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 12:24:55 AM

TheFishbum

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline

Yep, I am the unlucky cuss who has been shooting the video.. and yes I know most of the fish I shot pics of were hooked illegally.. though the still pics were ONLY of fish hooked legally. I wateched one fellow one day hook over 25 fish and break every single one off. Not sure where he gets his hooks from, but I am pretty sure I have a few of them in my collection since customers who caught fish legally gave me any extra hooks.
Yep, I am the guy in the chair..
I am now back in Kentucky. I was impressed by the fishery, but less than impressed by the number of jerks that man the wall daily in the town pool. The Smokin Man, Puddin Tain, the little yard ape who tosses rocks into the pool and you wonder why the lady put the property off limits.. but worse were the actions of the VFW commander who got involved in this and on my first day told people to violate the law. Why is the commander of a VFW Post becoming involved in the business of the store next to the lodge?
Worse he let Puddin Tain stand on lodge property and threaten me as well as yell obscenities at me.
I have spent most of the last 10 years writing about fishing in Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Brazil, Alaska, Indiana, Ohio and now New York. I know that fishermen are losing more and more land to private property owners who will not tolerate the kind of actions I saw in Pulaski. Who will not tolerate, trash, and litter, cigarette butts, yards of fishing line, and more on their properties.
The shop is open if you call. The number is on the door. She is going through some family problems right now and feels that the store is less important than her child. I am sure no one will disagree with that.
The origin of deeds that give people ownership of streambeds goes back to English Law, where Rich and powerful people controlled entire streams and water rights. People who came here from England made sure that the same thing could not happen here and the courts have ruled in several states that if the original deed is old enough that the conditions in it go forward. The deed to Yankee Fly and Tackle goes back over 200 years. The building is according to available records the OLDEST in town.
I know that the Hamilton V. TWRA decision in Tennessee as well as the Barclay decision in New York back up the DEC decision that YFT owns the stream bed. Beyond that courts in Kentucky have ruled water is public but land is owned and if a river rises hunters and fishermen can not enter private property lines. Where that line is has NOTHING to do with High or Low water marks but goes to the deed UNLESS the property was purchased after a specific date when the Inland Waters Act took affect.
The real shame is that she had to take this action to protect the river from trash and knuckleheads.
YES, I said it and do not care if disagree. I know right from wrong and the way I was treated, and the way She is being treated was UnAmerican.
Fathers who encourage the kind of actions taken by the 2 young men who were chastised by the DEC officer, should be neutered. They do not need to pass on the kind of values that deny people their rights. They approached the owner of YFT in a restaurant and loudly proclaimed she had gotten them in trouble and people should not go to YFT... Now last I checked if you break the law it is YOUR fault not the person who called the DEC... but worse they stood and yelled from the bridge for 20 minutes that I was UnAmerican, when in fact it was them who were acting UnAmerican.
The stupid part of all of this is, that at any time, if people asked nicely and were respectful we did allow them to cross the property to fish under the bridge. All she wanted was to see responsible people fishing.
If you wanted to land a fish, fine, as long as it was legally hooked. If foul hooked shake it off... All reasonable requests.. but even the simple action of asking for permission was denied her by several people including the Hippie who pointed at his ass last weekend.
The trash was too much. The pollution was too much. People causing problems for guests.. too much. She closed the property to all but those who were SMART enough to be polite and respectful.
Jim Dicken
AKA Gomer Jones

(in reply to salmotrutta)

Post #: 9

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 12:30:51 AM

TheFishbum

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline

Watch them in High Quality on Youtube.com there is a seperate link for high quality. I shot all in DV-AVI except the ones on BigFishTackle.com.. which has a lower limit on loads. Most are over 700MB with some as much as 1000MB. You can probably see the hooks you are talking about.
JimD072@aol.com
Check out HotDickenCider.com for some great humor.

(in reply to metalslayer)

Post #: 10

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 8:19:23 AM

Estimated

Posts: 66
Joined: 8/27/2007
From: Mckeesport Pa
Status: offline

I bet if those people who are littering and Hooking fish illegally owned that property it would be posted.I mean who wants a bunch of scumbags on there property messing the environment up on there land? It sickens me that humans would litter in the places they like to go and Fish ill never understand this. I mean would you throw your cigarette butts on your floor at home and toss your empty iced tea or soda bottle or your floor? She owns that land how about if 20 people just decided to go on there property and just hang out there and leave this weeks garbage there. Why is there even an issue? Now that's unAmerican.

_____________________________

http://www.smalliesontheyough.com

(in reply to TheFishbum)

Post #: 11

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 10:23:22 AM

elephanthead

Posts: 1275
Joined: 12/2/2003
Status: offline

Fishbum, what's the link to that video showing all the "respectable" behavior. Thanks, Dave

(in reply to TheFishbum)

Post #: 12

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 10:45:28 AM

Uncle Kevin

Posts: 88
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DMIyP3gD3M

This might be it...

_____________________________

...just watch for the twitch and then bring on the thunder!

(in reply to elephanthead)

Post #: 13

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 11:34:04 AM

salmotrutta

Posts: 1179
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

Yep- and the sad thing being this behavior isn't limited to the town pool. That pool is only a tiny portion of the river, of many rivers where this kind of thing goes on. People who don't have the common decency to respect each other, others property and nature by littering, ill behavior, ad infinium.

(in reply to Uncle Kevin)

Post #: 14

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 2:47:19 PM

Estimated

Posts: 66
Joined: 8/27/2007
From: Mckeesport Pa
Status: offline

Seems Like that place has a few good scumbags..............

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(in reply to salmotrutta)

Post #: 15

RE: SALMON RIVER PRIVATE OWNERSHIP - 10/7/2008 3:33:51 PM

elephanthead

Posts: 1275
Joined: 12/2/2003
Status: offline

thank you...pretty sad.....kid probably was on his way to help out at the salvation army or red cross orrrrrrrrr to check in from work release. Dave

(in reply to Uncle Kevin)

Post #: 16

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