Pa checking 20 hp motors

Pa checking 20 hp motors

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Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/24/2007 4:12:33 PM

sixers

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Supposedly the Pa rangers are checking 20 hp motors on Pa lakes with 20 hp limits like Lake Arthur. The fine is over $300. I do not know if they started to check Pymy for 9.9 hp. A local Pa boat dealer has a couple of used 25hp Hondas and Mercs with 20 hp stickers on them for sale. It seems that with the crackdown many are trading their stuff to get legal limits.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/24/2007 5:05:46 PM

bluntman

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I know Ill sleep better now that the fish gestapo is on thier annual fund raiser

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/25/2007 1:08:05 AM

Crack

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I don't know how they would be able to do this. To my knowledge the only way to tell what size motor it is besides stickers is to get the vin number off the motor and then they would have to research it to find out what the HP really is.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/25/2007 1:18:43 AM

pghmarty

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If you can alter a 9.9HP to have 15HP(slightly larger carb is often all it needs)you can alter a 25HP to have 20HP
A dirty air filter is all it takes to reduce HP
Leave the stickers off-let them figure what the horse power is at the prop.
I have never seen a portable dynomometer.
If the law states rated horse power there is not much you can do.
If it only limits HP it is up to them to proove what it is.

Engine serial numbers are not random.
They have manufacturer, date of production, model and HP
It would not take more than 1 page to have all this information

< Message edited by pghmarty -- 7/25/2007 1:27:34 AM >

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/25/2007 7:52:44 AM

sixers

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You are correct in that it would take some doing.

The bottom line is be aware that Pa may be clamping down on the HP limit and if you are willing to try an oversized motor on some of these lakes at a cost of $300 plus then that is a personal decision and hopefully , you get by. However, don't brag at the launch about it.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/25/2007 9:21:30 AM

indsguiz

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Marty,
If your information is correct (and 99% of what you post is) then what they would need is a corresponding list of carb serial #'s to cross reference with the engine #'s. Also, I heard somewhere that there is some sort of accustic device that can measure H.P. by listening to the engine at W.O.T. You heard anything about that? I guess it would stand to reason that a more powerful motor would be louder. I just can't find the pertainent infomation.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/25/2007 9:46:47 AM

pghmarty

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This is about all I could find about HP sensers:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3618/is_199801/ai_n8793054/pg_2

Probably not possible on an outboard motor unless in a lab.
Noise does not increase by HP alone-the only differance between a 305 and 350 engine is bore size but probably the same noise level.
Change the cam and igniton timing and noise will increase dramaticly.
My 454 with comp cam is louder than a stock 454MAG.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 1:22:35 AM

Crack

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I don't think they would be able to check your carb. You can keep a carb off a 9.9 and rejet it to a bigger opening and let more fuel in. Personally I think it would be very hard for them to do. Marty is right to my knowledge of the number containing the horse power. But I have also seen engines that the number was pretty beat up. The only real way they could in force that is if they made you bring your engine in to test it. If you are at the ramp talking about how your engine is a 20 horse with 9.9 stickers on it then I think they might have a case but if you don't say anything it would be up to them to prove your 9.9 is really a 20 horse.

Also Marty the HP sensor in the link you posted above looks like it is for machining equipment. Wouldn't do the same thing for a boat motor. I work in Tool and Die and they make those for production shops so they can stop the machine when a tool breaks with out someone watching it all day.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 6:07:19 AM

BIGHEAD

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Was up arthur last night and the game comm. check my motor twice. Once on the way on the water and once on the way off the water. Damn JUST A LITTLE MUCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the first officer was nice and the second one was just plain NASTY But I was good to Go.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 9:06:05 AM

jlh42581

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get a 9.9

Bore it out, put steped pistons in it, raise the compression ratio to something rediculas like 15:1 then rejet the carb and put high octane airplane fuel in it.

I made a honda 200x three wheeler stand up from a slow roll in 3rd gear, cant even imagine what you could do with a two stroke. It was bored out .020 over.... i miss that machine.

< Message edited by jlh42581 -- 7/26/2007 9:07:27 AM >

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 2:25:33 PM

pghmarty

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There has to be a way to bolt a blower or at least a turbo charger on a 9.9.

"Injection is nice but I would rather be blown"

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 6:11:15 PM

BIGHEAD

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Actually Boring out the motor real does not to much.Unless it is like 40 to 60 over. Most people bore out the motor to tighten things up. It will give a little more compression but not much more than that.I have played with many two stroke bikes before. wiesco piston kits with a bore to fit and reeds,carb kits will defiantly help.as far as using Airplane fuel will burn up a motor Unless you to do the above. I wonder how many people received fines last night????????//

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 8:46:09 PM

northparklake2

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only use a higher octane fuel if you raise the compression. otherwise you are wasting your money. but using racing fuel shouldnt burn up a motor. the higher the octane the less likely to predetonate.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 9:10:57 PM

pghmarty

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High octane fuel and avgas-aviation fuel have different formulations.
It is not just a different octane.
Racing fuel has more energy/volume and will have more power.
Racing fuel has a totally different smell both raw and burned.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 10:12:34 PM

Split Shot

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This makes me sick! For years they knew that people were running 18hp. Tahatsu's on Arthur and no one did anything about it. Now, 1 guy get's stopped 2 times in one day.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/26/2007 10:29:53 PM

creel

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Dave are they just checking the boats with 20 hp stickers on them, or checking all motors. John

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 5:29:46 AM

BIGHEAD

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John they were checking everyone that i seen. they are just doing their job. But just a bit annoying

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 8:08:28 AM

sixers

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Remember the new Honda and Merc 25's are 3 cylinders.

I do not think that a 3 cylinder would pass a minor 20hp inspection .

All ohio registered boats must pay a Pa, state lake fee at Pa state ( not federal) lakes like Arthur. At that point they check the boatind/motor registration.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 8:46:27 AM

creel

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thanks Dave

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 9:00:23 AM

eyesandgillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sixers

Remember the new Honda and Merc 25's are 3 cylinders.

I do not think that a 3 cylinder would pass a minor 20hp inspection .

All ohio registered boats must pay a Pa, state lake fee at Pa state ( not federal) lakes like Arthur. At that point they check the boatind/motor registration.

Umm, can you please locate the law that states this? I believe if your home states registration is current, you are good to go in any PA lake unless you moor it there, then you most likely have to pay a fee. I have been wrong before but, my relatives are from Cleveland and have their boat at our campground at Wilhelm and it is registered OH and they have never paid any additional fees to launch or use the lake at Wilhelm.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 10:04:51 AM

sixers

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Maybe, I miss quoted it. In the past, I have paid a yearly launch fee to launch at Lake Arthur and my boat is registered in Ohio. I paid my fee without any questions, it was about $15 . They checked my boat registration but since 9.9 hp's are not registered, they did not check that. Indeed, I think you can buy the pass on the internet at the state site.

It is my understanding that this applied to all State Lakes ( non Federal). Now Pymy is run by both so one does not pay the fee to launch on the Pa side, I have asked about that to the Pa campground officers.

Sorry, for the lack of information, I am just relating my experience.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 11:24:11 AM

Porktown

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Anyone know if you can use those motor connector mounts (main motor to kicker) in restricted lakes? I've seen people using them, but not sure if it was legal. Do they want motors over 20HP completely out of the water?

The only thing that I have ever seen is "The use of motor over 20HP is prohibited". Does that mean for steering purposes as well?

Anyone ever use the Cabelas Tie bars?

< Message edited by Porktown -- 7/27/2007 11:27:12 AM >

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 11:37:05 AM

pghmarty

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You can't start the larger motor.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 8:56:04 PM

sixers

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It use to be at Pymy that you had to take the prop off the larger motor. I believe they have relaxed that, I never have taken the prop off my 25hp on pymy but just used my kicker ( a 5 hp) with that T-bar connection to the main motor to steer and troll with.

The Ohio rangers said that you could use the larger motor on pymy if conditions got bad and you were trying to get off the lake. However, this was one ranger and not in the law.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 9:14:49 PM

Stillhead

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I don't mind them checking at all. Yes for years they let people get away with 18hp with 9.9 stickers. They finally changed it to 20 hp and now there's guys running 25's with 20 stickers. Come on, how fast do you need to go? I was and still am all for them upping the hp to 20 and now I think they should enforce that. There's no reason for anything bigger.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/27/2007 10:58:00 PM

pghmarty

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Taking the prop off of the other motor will reduce drag a little.
People that like to tell others about running for 6 hours and only using 4 gallons of gas might notice a differance.
Disconecting and raising the cicker motor will make more difference if you have an underpowered boat.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/28/2007 12:19:48 AM

Mikastorm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stillhead

I don't mind them checking at all. Yes for years they let people get away with 18hp with 9.9 stickers. They finally changed it to 20 hp and now there's guys running 25's with 20 stickers. Come on, how fast do you need to go? I was and still am all for them upping the hp to 20 and now I think they should enforce that. There's no reason for anything bigger.

I agrea with you. don,t really like boats blasting by me while I,m trying to enjoy the day.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/28/2007 5:36:37 AM

BIGHEAD

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Well still I think the problem is that you can only by a 20 four stroke now! or be forced to buy a 9.9 or a fifteen in a two stroke. And I prefer a 2 stroke over the four stroke. But thats what i like some people like the fours. Just like some people like Pepsi and some like coke i like rootbeer! Seen the gamey's have a new prop boat. You hear the thing from a long way off.

< Message edited by BIGHEAD -- 7/28/2007 1:29:23 PM >

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/28/2007 12:40:47 PM

*commander*

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sounds like somebody possibly blew past the wrong person. these guys running 20's and 30's arent smart enough to slow down when passing other boats. if the wco's are checking motors and are going to continue to check motors, there is going to be a lot less boat traffic on pymy and arthur. the wcos could possibly get 50-100 boats every weekend just from the guys that fish tourneys with illegal motors.

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RE: Pa checking 20 hp motors - 7/28/2007 1:29:42 PM

*commander*

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you do not need to remove the prop and dont need to have the prop of the larger motor out of the water.

imo if youre going to connect 2 motors together pay up and get the EZ Steer outboard to outboard kit. the cheap bars that fit in the front of the motors are rated for low mph. really only supposed to be used for trolling. they are to be removed at higher speeds. seems like a pain in the butt to remember to connect and disconnect all the time.

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