Opening up the mouth?

Opening up the mouth?

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Opening up the mouth? - 9/20/2008 10:56:30 PM

Screamin Steel

Posts: 75
Joined: 10/21/2007
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I really don't know about the legality of this, but wondering if it was legal to send a few dozen guys with shovels to the mouths of the tribs to open up the sand/ gravel bars. I think I even heard about something along those lines being done before. Taking it one step further, I'ts a shame that we lack the resources currently to alter the stream flow to enhance the runs. Salmon river flow is controlled. Shame we don't have a major tailwater feeding the lake on the east and west sides, i.e. a hyrdoelectric plant with cool, regulated bottom flows. Imagine what kind of a fishery that could promote.You would get salmon runs, walleye in the spring pre spawn, we wouldn't be sitting on our rods waiting for a rainstorm right now. I'm sure there would have to be very intensive environmental impact studies done before hand, etc. But it could mean creating a fantastic nerw fishery and more clean hydro power. Just dreamin' and thinking. I won't make it up till late October, so I'm really bored right now, also waiting for archery season. Just thought I'd throw that bone out there to chew on a while.

< Message edited by Screamin Steel -- 9/20/2008 10:57:16 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/20/2008 11:04:44 PM

indsguiz

Posts: 2033
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline

Steel,
Ouch! Put in a dam on either ELK or the Nut just to improve the fishing for a little ways down stream. IMHO not a good idea. Unless there were a fish ladder put in it would destroy the upstream fishing. It would flood a lot of private property and probably totally damage the fishery due to excessive crowding below the dam. The rain will come. It normally always does. I'm hoping for about 3 days; 5 days before the "One Fly" and then be clear for the event. But it will come!
Also the tribs don't have enough year round water flow to make a hydro dam economically feasable in the summer months. So you'd get a huge winter/spring pool and then as it was drawn down to supply power a huge deep hole due to lack of inflow. So get out the shovels, or a bobcat, or 12 sticks of tnt.

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(in reply to Screamin Steel)

Post #: 2

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/20/2008 11:36:58 PM

carpin05

Posts: 404
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline

NO!!!! you can not divert the flow of water on any water in pa.....

Dont you think it would have been done by now????

You are not the only genius on the tribs....

(in reply to indsguiz)

Post #: 3

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 12:26:47 AM

joebaker79

Posts: 1541
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: online

Change the title of this thread to "How unnatural can we make steelhead fishing on Lake Erie tribs?" The fish are coming in just fine for the lack of water. I have not seen one mouth still blocked off at this time in Erie. Pretty sure they all have opened up. Should we have fire hoses going in to improve the flow so they can actually enter the mouths as well? Because if there is a problem that's it, lack of water, not lack of opening.

(in reply to carpin05)

Post #: 4

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 1:06:32 AM

Screamin Steel

Posts: 75
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline

Would anyone refer to King fishing on the Salmon river as unnatural? How about the fact that the PFBC does all the reproduction for us, and hatches all the fry? Not to mention that steelhead aren't even native to this time zone! Let's keep the line clear here, between a daydream and reality. It's not like I'm currently drafting the plans, and firing up the dozers. I've been fortunate enough to fish some amazing tailwaters, and have to say that it is totally worth the effort and resources to create new ones. Hydro power creates clean energy sources, new impoundments, boosting many different forms of recreation....and most that affect migratory fish have incorporated fish ladders by this point. BTW, during very dry years in the past, have the powers that be ever used an alternative method to help the migration?

(in reply to joebaker79)

Post #: 5

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 8:30:10 AM

pxatim

Posts: 988
Joined: 10/22/2006
From: dahn rahn ah rocks
Status: offline

Just be patient the rain will come... it always does.

(in reply to Screamin Steel)

Post #: 6

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 9:02:00 AM

ShutUpNFish

Posts: 1156
Joined: 3/16/2007
Status: offline

The fishing on the tribs has been great for years and will continue to be. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Just be patient and the mouths will open up just fine as they always do. I think there are better areas where moneys could be concentrated in anyway. Such as creating some better launches and access areas to Lake Erie in PA.

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Post #: 7

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 9:15:22 AM

Loopy

Posts: 2187
Joined: 11/29/2003
From: Girard, Pa.
Status: offline

Since we've had fish running the tribs, what year has there never been a run?

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Been Dazed and Confused for so long.

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Post #: 8

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 9:37:38 AM

joebaker79

Posts: 1541
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

Would anyone refer to King fishing on the Salmon river as unnatural? How about the fact that the PFBC does all the reproduction for us, and hatches all the fry? Not to mention that steelhead aren't even native to this time zone! Let's keep the line clear here, between a daydream and reality. It's not like I'm currently drafting the plans, and firing up the dozers. I've been fortunate enough to fish some amazing tailwaters, and have to say that it is totally worth the effort and resources to create new ones. Hydro power creates clean energy sources, new impoundments, boosting many different forms of recreation....and most that affect migratory fish have incorporated fish ladders by this point. BTW, during very dry years in the past, have the powers that be ever used an alternative method to help the migration?

Steel, that was my point. It's already a man made thing, so how much further do you want to take it? Should we have the dams automatically filet the fish for us so we can avoid the hastle of having to catch them?

(in reply to Screamin Steel)

Post #: 9

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 12:37:50 PM

glen

Posts: 243
Joined: 10/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joebaker79

quote:

ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

Would anyone refer to King fishing on the Salmon river as unnatural? How about the fact that the PFBC does all the reproduction for us, and hatches all the fry? Not to mention that steelhead aren't even native to this time zone! Let's keep the line clear here, between a daydream and reality. It's not like I'm currently drafting the plans, and firing up the dozers. I've been fortunate enough to fish some amazing tailwaters, and have to say that it is totally worth the effort and resources to create new ones. Hydro power creates clean energy sources, new impoundments, boosting many different forms of recreation....and most that affect migratory fish have incorporated fish ladders by this point. BTW, during very dry years in the past, have the powers that be ever used an alternative method to help the migration?

Steel, that was my point. It's already a man made thing, so how much further do you want to take it? Should we have the dams automatically filet the fish for us so we can avoid the hastle of having to catch them?

I THINK A CANAL OR BIG PIPE SHOULD BE PUT IN GOING TO POOR RICHARDS SMOKEHOUSE. WOULD SAVE A LOT OF TIME GLEN

< Message edited by glen -- 9/21/2008 12:38:18 PM >

(in reply to joebaker79)

Post #: 10

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 1:52:01 PM

swinger

Posts: 352
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Screamin Steel

I really don't know about the legality of this, but wondering if it was legal to send a few dozen guys with shovels to the mouths of the tribs to open up the sand/ gravel bars. I think I even heard about something along those lines being done before. Taking it one step further, I'ts a shame that we lack the resources currently to alter the stream flow to enhance the runs. Salmon river flow is controlled. Shame we don't have a major tailwater feeding the lake on the east and west sides, i.e. a hyrdoelectric plant with cool, regulated bottom flows. Imagine what kind of a fishery that could promote.You would get salmon runs, walleye in the spring pre spawn, we wouldn't be sitting on our rods waiting for a rainstorm right now. I'm sure there would have to be very intensive environmental impact studies done before hand, etc. But it could mean creating a fantastic nerw fishery and more clean hydro power. Just dreamin' and thinking. I won't make it up till late October, so I'm really bored right now, also waiting for archery season. Just thought I'd throw that bone out there to chew on a while.

Congratulations!!!! Truely one of the worst ideas ever brought upon this board.

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Post #: 11

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 3:48:40 PM

Bughawk

Posts: 5940
Status: online

Actually the project holes on Walnut have been altered to create fishing areas. In fact, I would say it is about time to clean out the stop sign hole. It has progressively filled in over the last few years.

I am not so sure about the hydroelectric plant on the streams. Don't think there is enough flow and besides I don't think there would be a good place to put a dam.

Screaming Steel ignore the hostile comments. That happens when you think out loud sometimes.

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pax vobiscum +

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Post #: 12

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 3:56:21 PM

Stillhead

Posts: 2800
Joined: 12/19/2003
Status: offline

I don't think they are allowed to dig in walnut creek anymore, except for dredging the mouth for boats.

(in reply to Bughawk)

Post #: 13

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 5:49:44 PM

chrisrowboat

Posts: 3335
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: not here
Status: offline

There is lots of fish in the lake!
Why don't you fish there? Too far to walk???

(in reply to Stillhead)

Post #: 14

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 5:52:25 PM

chrisrowboat

Posts: 3335
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: not here
Status: offline

DCNR/DEC edict

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Post #: 15

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 9:34:48 PM

Screamin Steel

Posts: 75
Joined: 10/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Screaming Steel ignore the hostile comments. That happens when you think out loud sometimes.

No doubt.

(in reply to chrisrowboat)

Post #: 16

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 10:01:59 PM

carpin05

Posts: 404
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline

Shut up, well said......

Bug he said the mouth not the holes??????

(in reply to Screamin Steel)

Post #: 17

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 10:03:28 PM

*commander*

Posts: 1677
Status: offline

swinger just cant find anybody to swing with

. like in grade school, when he's mean to you it just means he likes you. dont bend over to pick up the steel if he's behind you.

pick up a shovel and dig away. might get in trouble if law enforcement shows up but i doubt anybody else will say anything to you. they'll wait to post it here.

< Message edited by *commander* -- 9/21/2008 10:08:54 PM >

(in reply to Screamin Steel)

Post #: 18

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 10:17:44 PM

smallhook

Posts: 886
Joined: 9/15/2000
Status: offline

I remember years ago someone opening the mouth of Elk with a steam shovel.

(in reply to *commander*)

Post #: 19

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/21/2008 10:23:58 PM

*commander*

Posts: 1677
Status: offline

just digging in the sand, that's all. after he gets it opened up he'll have 50 guys fishing around him.

< Message edited by *commander* -- 9/21/2008 10:24:39 PM >

(in reply to smallhook)

Post #: 20

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/22/2008 7:37:38 AM

bjkaledas

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: online

Looks like we could be getting some rain soon.

http://www.accuweather.com/us/pa/erie/16501/forecast-15day.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=1&metric=0

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Post #: 21

RE: Inserting The Foot! - 9/22/2008 9:38:06 AM

MackJ

Posts: 324
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

You guys need to think big: install a large diameter pipe and pump system-- plenty of water in the lake. During low water periods, pump the water upstream and turn on the faucet. I suggest one pipe running up Rte 832. You can dump into Walnut and Elk with a single pipe.

(in reply to ShutUpNFish)

Post #: 22

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/22/2008 9:39:10 AM

dealinsteel

Posts: 151
Joined: 11/16/2006
Status: online

Oh Dreary Erie how we can't wait for you to become miserable again!

(in reply to bjkaledas)

Post #: 23

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/22/2008 9:41:48 AM

bjkaledas

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: online

Well, those two days of rain on there could be the one. Let's keep our fingers crossed that if it does change, that it is just another day of rain added on. What do you think we would need? 2 inches or more?

(in reply to dealinsteel)

Post #: 24

RE: Inserting The Foot! - 9/22/2008 9:55:53 AM

egg sac

Posts: 2423
Joined: 10/2/2000
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: MackJ

You guys need to think big: install a large diameter pipe and pump system-- plenty of water in the lake. During low water periods, pump the water upstream and turn on the faucet. I suggest one pipe running up Rte 832. You can dump into Walnut and Elk with a single pipe.

While your idea if done would get alot more water in a stream it would not cause a good run cause most of the fish that would enter the stream would now turn back or not come in at all because the entire sent of the stream would be changed. While granted you will get strays that were not origanaly stocked in said stream the majority were from previus stocks and will enter the stream based on its smell that they remmeber from the time they were stocked thier. More project ares is what we need the more hioles that can be kept open the better fishing we will all have for years and years to come. I could have sworn if each of the 2 project holes they did stayed open they were going to make even more of them in the future.Stop sign hole is all but filled in now and surely needs dug out or diverted to self flush itself so it can be the old deep hole we all know in the past.

< Message edited by egg sac -- 9/22/2008 9:57:43 AM >

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SO MANY FISH SO LITTLE TIME.
WHY ARE ALL THE PLACES I HAVE YET 2 FISH SO FAR AWAY?

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Post #: 25

RE: Inserting The Foot! - 9/22/2008 10:34:25 AM

dealinsteel

Posts: 151
Joined: 11/16/2006
Status: online

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/outdoors/p_134438.html

Picture of Elk above Folly's from Wednesday

(in reply to egg sac)

Post #: 26

RE: Inserting The Foot! - 9/22/2008 2:46:59 PM

Jester

Posts: 40
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

Now if you can just get the Trib to keep re-printing that pic for the next 6 months, the 'Mupheres' will stay in the Burgh and youinz' guys in Erie will have one heck of a Chrome season through next spring:-)

(in reply to dealinsteel)

Post #: 27

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/22/2008 3:38:00 PM

krafish

Posts: 9
Joined: 4/24/2007
Status: offline

I think doing anything at the mouth would have little to no effect on the steelhead. Water temp and flow rate determines the run. I believe the fish commission could do more to improve the fishery by expanding on what was done in Walnut Creek. The holes they cut in the stream bed have made fantastic holes out of a poor area. Why couldn't this be done in several other areas? This might speard the crowds a little and make some new spots where there is poor fishing now. This would really be great in some of the public access areas.

(in reply to Screamin Steel)

Post #: 28

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/22/2008 3:54:47 PM

seejib

Posts: 192
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline

Too many man made things will make man made problems for the future. Besides you will all be pissed when you get done digging and the wind changes making big waves and fill your hole fight back in!!

(in reply to krafish)

Post #: 29

RE: Opening up the mouth? - 9/22/2008 6:52:13 PM

swinger

Posts: 352
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seejib

Too many man made things will make man made problems for the future. Besides you will all be pissed when you get done digging and the wind changes making big waves and fill your hole fight back in!!

I was thinking the same thing. Nice post.

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Post #: 30

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