Nebie/Want to be

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Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 11:06:41 AM

Mike R.

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Joined: 9/10/2008
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I have fished all mylife (47 Years) and owned a few fly rods but was clueless when I bought them, and then again when I used them. I hate to start off on the wrong foot and I know this is a loaded question how ever here it is. I love to fish for steelhead on Eries Tribs. and have only used spinning gear to do so. I want to start fly fishing and thus here is the question. I want to purchase a rod, reel, line, and flies ect. to start. If you were to make a starters kit list what would the list be. I know this is a tall order, however since I've been reading this discussion board it seem like their is a lot of experence out there. So if you were guiding me what would you hand me to fish with for steelhead in Erie's Tribs. being new to fly fishing. Thanks Mike R.

Post #: 1

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 12:19:32 PM

Cold

Posts: 724
Joined: 3/27/2008
From: Latrobe, PA
Status: online

What I was told is that an Erie steelhead flyrod would not be suitable for smaller stream trout and vice versa, therefore I went with the 5wt, which I'll get much more use from than the steelhead rod.

If you dont get a pre-packaged kit, be sure to get: rod (duh!), reel (again duh, but make sure it is matched to the weight of the rod), backing (like braided line), flyline (pretty colors, expensive...again, match to the rod weight, I was advised to start out with a weight-forward line to help in casting), SEVERAL leaders (3X to 5X), and tippet (I'm using a 3X leader and 5X tippet right now, and have no complaints).

Also, it's a good idea to get a pack of the loop-to-loop connectors, they make attaching a new leader a breeze, working on the same principle as a chinese finger trap in tandem with a short length of heatshrink tubing.

Add a few flies to the mix, and I think you'll be all set. Get some floatant if you plan on dry-flying alot, indicators and TINY shot if you want to nymph.

On the subject of floatant, I had used, for the past several months, Loon Top Ride powder floatant, which would work well...but not long. A few helpful guys here suggested using a gel floatant first, then "charging it up" with the power on occasion. Well it took me until this week to track down some gel floatant near here, and I'm a firm believer that when God invented floatant, he intended for it to be gel.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

< Message edited by Cold -- 9/10/2008 12:38:37 PM >

(in reply to Mike R.)

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 2:46:16 PM

bowmandjk

Posts: 89
Joined: 3/28/2007
From: erie,pa
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mike i use a 8 wt redington mostly for steelheads i release most of my fish so i like to get them in quickly and back in the water witout to much stress if i want to keep a fish or two and their is some area without many people fishing ill use a 5wt or a 6wt and play them but if their are other people fishing its better to get them in quickly my 2 cents

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 3:06:49 PM

indsguiz

Posts: 2033
Joined: 3/24/2005
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Mike,
This is the advice I have given to many beginner steelhead fishermen. Get yourself a cheap complete set-up. Scientific anglers makes a BASS, that's right I said Bass set-up in 7-8 wt that has rod/reel/backing/line/leader and I think some tippett. Then all you will need is a few suitable flies and you're ready to try for steel. I will say that I NEVER go smaller that 5-6 pound for my leaders or tippett and I usually use 6-8 pound. Yeah< I give up a few strikes. But I don't break off, and I can usually get the fish in pretty quickly. If you don't like S/A stuff you can go on the fisherie store site and call them and talk to Worm or somebody and they can give you some pretty good advice. I don't know if they sell S/A kits. Two of my friends who fish for steel use the very cheap Shakespeare fly combos and they like them. Reason: they can really lean on a fish to get it in . The rods are about 7-8 wt.

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(in reply to bowmandjk)

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 3:11:12 PM

GoState!

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Joined: 8/29/2008
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Well Mike, welcome to the world of fly fishing! I embarked on my fly fishing obsession when I was a young lad of 14 and have been at it ever since. For the Erie tribs a 9'-10' rod in 7 or 8 weight is a great place to start until you start to hone your skills. The reel should have a good quality disk drag to help protect your tippets and fight tough steelies without breaking off all the time. As a starting point, FishUSA offers several combos that are priced at a good entry level. Here is a link to all the fly combos they have

http://www.fishusa.com/RodAndReelCombos-FlyFishingCombos_c.html

Their Fly Fishing page is also a good place to check out all the other fly gear you might need to take to the water. http://www.fishusa.com/FlyFishing_c.html

If you want to talk to someone about the gear and what might fit you best, just give them a call. When I first moved to Erie about 5-6 years ago they really helped me get started. Their number is 1-800-922-1219.

Good Luck!

(in reply to bowmandjk)

Post #: 5

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 3:48:52 PM

Esox_Hunter

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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I will mirror most of what has been stated so far. A rod in the 9-10' range in a 6-8wt, coupled with a reel that has a good smooth disc drag. WF fly line is pretty much the standard also. As for leaders I like total length to be around 10' with a final tippet no lighter than 4x. Some guys prefer to use flouro tippet however, I generally stick with mono frog-hair or rio.

For your terminal tackle some floats, a shot dispenser with a good variety of sizes, and some extra spools of tippet in 2-4x will be all you need. Some type of clippers and a set of forceps should be with you at all times as well. A landing net can come in handy at times but, it can be a pain carrying a decent sized one around all day. One last item that I feel is manditory would be a pair of polarized shades

For selecting flies you are likely to get a ton of different responses. I will break it down to what I would deem a good entry-level assortment. Keep in mind there are far more patterns that will take steelhead, these are just some of the basics, the flies below would be a good place to start when stocking your box this fall!

Egg paterns(blood dots, glow bugs, suckerspawn, estaz flies, ect.) in sizes 10-18, in a variety of colors

Nymphs- Pheasant tails, hares ears, copper johns, stonyfly patterns, prince nymphs in sizes 12-16, stonefly patterns will work well in larger sizes at times(6-10)

Woolly buggers- Carry them in various colors in sizes 8-12

(in reply to GoState!)

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 4:59:54 PM

Sage4wt

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Joined: 4/9/2007
From: PORTAGE
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I would go with a rod that is 9'-10' and a 6-8wt. A quality reel with good drag, preferebly mid or large arbor. Orvis has some great rods and reels that are on sale now. Decent fly line and leaders/ tippet. Got to have some chest waders and I would recommend getting a wading belt with a back support for long days on the tribs. Polarized glasses are also a must. As for flies, go with plenty of sucker spawn, chrystal meth, glo bugs, estaz, and other egg patterns. All in various sizes and colors because you never know. Don't forget your nymphs and buggers also. Pretty much what everyone else said, lol. This link will be helpful also.
http://forums.fishusa.com/Steelhead_fishing_101%25%25%25By_Formerguide%21/m_103195/tm.htm

(in reply to Esox_Hunter)

Post #: 7

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/10/2008 5:30:11 PM

beanynymph

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Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline

Dear Mike
You have already gotten some great advice and I will try to add to it.
The best investment I ever made was to hire a guide for a day. He really brought me up to speed quickly on casting, mending, reading the water, drag free float, strike indicators, how not to fall in, etc. It might seem like a lot of money, but if you split it with a friend, its not too bad, especially if you consider how much you are already spending in terms of time, travel, gas and lodging.

I have been steelheading for 8 years in the Ohio, PA and NY tribs of Lake Erie and have evolved to:
10' 6wt rod, WF line, yarn strike indicator, 3x or 4x flourocarbon tippet depending on how finicky the fish are.

I catch 90% of my fish on glow bugs (various colors #12 or 14), sucker spawn (cream, tan 12 or 14), crystal meth (white, pink, orange #12 or 14), prince nymphs (12-18) and black stone fly nymphs. You can spend a lot on a reel, but I just bought an Okuma SLV for $60 that I am anxious to try out. It might be a bit heavier than a diecast reel, but the drag seems to be sealed so hopefully in will not freeze up in the winter.

Welcome to the obession!

(in reply to Esox_Hunter)

Post #: 8

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/11/2008 8:05:10 AM

SmallieAngler

Posts: 33
Status: offline

i think i'm in the same boat at Mike R. I have had some cheap outfits in the past and am looking to buy a decent outfit for steelheading. I'm pretty sure Orvis makes quality stuff and I was looking at the clearwater II rod and battenkill mid-arbor reel, but not sure whether to go 6 weight or 7 weight? as it turns out, the 6 weight is approximately 60 bucks cheaper or so, but i'd rather spend extra cash and get the right thing. is this a quality set-up?

(in reply to beanynymph)

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/11/2008 8:55:57 AM

Mikastorm

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Joined: 10/18/2006
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I agree with what bowman said about the weight and fighting the fish, when there is a hole with a few too many people and you hook up , you want some backbone to bank the fish as soon as you can. I used the 10, 6wt. and it takes a while longer to get them in than having a 7-8 wt. Also I use straight 6lb. test floro. for my leader and do very well, with few break offs. If the fish are being picky, put a magget on with your egg. I don,t do it but seen a guy hauling them in last year like that. Try adding a dropper to your egg or wolly bugger and your catch will go up.

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/11/2008 1:37:27 PM

Esox_Hunter

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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Smallie- I fish the Erie tribs with a clearwater II in a 10' 7wt tip flex. The only drawbacks I have seen with the Clearwater are that it is bit heavy and just a tad too stiff for my tastes( I should have got the mid-flex). The price was right and my other 7wt had snapped right before I bought that one. It certainly gets the job done, it is no the prettiest rod but it fishes pretty well and carries a good backing from Orvis. That is another good thing about Orvis; they have some of the best customer service on the market. If you can get a good price on the rod that would be a good starter rod for you. Since you are really just starting out I would recommend a 7wt. in the 9-10' range

What length and flex were the rods you were looking at?

I know many people who own battenkill reels; I never heard one of them ever having trouble with them. They seem like they are a very good reel for the price.

(in reply to Mikastorm)

Post #: 11

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/11/2008 3:06:07 PM

SmallieAngler

Posts: 33
Status: offline

i was looking at the 9'6" mid-flex. Its 200 bucks, but its gaurenteed for 25 years, come on. I don't think thats too bad of a price, as long as its a decent rod i'll use for awhile. Do you think the 6-wt would be better, or still stick with the 7? the 6 weight is a 9' mid-flex as well, and its $160, but i'll gladly spend the money to get something better suited.

(in reply to Esox_Hunter)

Post #: 12

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/11/2008 3:57:10 PM

Esox_Hunter

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Joined: 8/2/2006
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When I bought my Clearwater last year mine (10' 7wt) was less than $120 shipped to my door. In the $200 price range I would have to say there are better rods out there. I would say it is a decent rod for $120 and a marginal rod at $200. I was under the impression that you found one that was on sale. In that range I think you would be better suited with a TFO Professional series rod or a Cabelas LST. I have fished the TFO rods and they are very nice for the money. I have a 9'9" 5wt Cabelas LST I use for big water trout and I love it, I almost bought the 9'6 7wt for steelhead and I probably should have. Even better Cabelas has them on sale right now, they are normally about $180 and they are now $110. Another option I will suggest is to find a used rod. Sometimes you can get very good deals on high-end rods that are slightly used or a discontinued model. Most of the warranties are transferable so if something should happen they would take care of you. One that comes to mind, if you could find one now, would be a Sage SLT. You can sometimes find them now in the mid $200 range and they are awesome rods, they were discontinued a little while back.

On the subject of determining what weight you want, you need to decide what you will be doing with the rod. If you will only be fishing steelhead and maybe occasional bass I would go with the 7wt. If you want a rod that you can still use for inland trout or panfish a 6wt will be better suited. If you plan to fish steelhead and maybe occasional salmon an 8wt would be my choice. You are likely to hear some varying responses as to what line weight is the best, these are just my personal opinions.

< Message edited by Esox_Hunter -- 9/11/2008 3:59:56 PM >

(in reply to SmallieAngler)

Post #: 13

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/12/2008 9:08:44 AM

dakotab

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Joined: 8/7/2007
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Check out ebay. Here's one that may be a good deal. http://cgi.ebay.com/9-Foot-7-Weight-4-Piece-IM8-Fly-Rod-With-Case-and-Reel_W0QQitemZ300255343263QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300255343263&_trkparms=72%3A1163%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

(in reply to Esox_Hunter)

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RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/12/2008 10:44:52 AM

RIZ

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Joined: 4/17/2002
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when looking for rods for steelhead, do not get a fast action or even a med/fast. a mod or mod/slow, i feel, is better for protection light tippets when the fish makes a sudden surge, as they prone to do. so if the states it's a tip flex or is rated at 7 and up, i think, it's too fast. other will disagree. i use a 6 wy but sometimes feel i could use a 7wt. an 8wt is good if you really want to lean on fish and use heavy line.

(in reply to dakotab)

Post #: 15

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/15/2008 12:17:35 PM

Bigdadyrods

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Joined: 9/15/2008
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Mike R.
I maybe new to the board, but not new to the fishing with a fly rod. You got some good advice here. Check with some of your local TU members, as they usually chase after the steelies too.
I always found some of the best advice coming from the small shops that are still in business. There is a boat load of info there just waiting to be given out.
For me, I like a 7 or 8wt about 9'6".

Big D

(in reply to RIZ)

Post #: 16

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/15/2008 12:47:30 PM

Mike R.

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Joined: 9/10/2008
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Thank you everyone for the advise. I purchased a Orvis Clearwater II rod 10' 7wt with a battenkill mid arbor reel. Now some advice as to what to use when and how. Tippet lenth, leader lenth and wt. How to rig the flies. I like to fish elk alot, but Iam open minded. I may even sneak off a day and go up this week. Again thanks for everything.

(in reply to Mike R.)

Post #: 17

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/15/2008 1:05:39 PM

doubletaper

Posts: 1025
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline

i have the clearwater 7wt. 9 1/2"and like it a lot. streamers and buggers you can get away with 7' to 7 1/2' tapered leader. if you get 8lb. rated you can always add on smaller lb. test.
i keep both gamma/frog hair florou. and superstrong tippet with me depending on water conditions anywhere from 3x to 6x flouro for clear water cond. sometimes i'll just use gamma leader material for off color in 6lb. . i usually use fast snaps on the end of my tippet when using streamers and buggers this way i don't have to continue to retie new streamers and buggers.
nymphs and eggs i'll tie on without the fast snaps. my 2cents ~dt
(this is also my largemouth rod also)

< Message edited by doubletaper -- 9/15/2008 1:08:41 PM >

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beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

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if success is consistent

(in reply to Mike R.)

Post #: 18

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/16/2008 5:09:13 PM

MRBM

Posts: 39
Joined: 8/5/2004
Status: offline

Buy and read The Steelhead Guide by John Nagy. There are other steelhead fishing books out there but this might be the best. It contains just about all you need to know about fly fisning the Erie tribs. Well worth the money.

(in reply to Mike R.)

Post #: 19

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/16/2008 6:35:25 PM

BucksCOFisher

Posts: 31
Joined: 10/16/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SmallieAngler

i think i'm in the same boat at Mike R. I have had some cheap outfits in the past and am looking to buy a decent outfit for steelheading. I'm pretty sure Orvis makes quality stuff and I was looking at the clearwater II rod and battenkill mid-arbor reel, but not sure whether to go 6 weight or 7 weight? as it turns out, the 6 weight is approximately 60 bucks cheaper or so, but i'd rather spend extra cash and get the right thing. is this a quality set-up?

I use the battenkill MA for steelhead and kings and have yet to have a problem with it. I love the large drag adjustment knob when it is 20 degrees and I can't feel my finger tips.

(in reply to SmallieAngler)

Post #: 20

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/18/2008 2:34:09 AM

Todd1126

Posts: 34
Joined: 5/22/2006
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hey mike. i have 4 rods and reels for sale under fly fishing tackle. come by and cast any or all of them. my cell and home number are on my posting. all equipment is brand new. i personally love to fish stealhead on a 10'-7wt. its easy to mend with and it rolls like a dream. all rods have registered warrenties and i have the boxes for all reels. i just have to much stuff. all of the combos cost me at least $600 and i have them posted for $250 a combo. i'll swap rods and reels if you want. give me a call.

(in reply to Mike R.)

Post #: 21

RE: Nebie/Want to be - 9/19/2008 2:03:05 PM

Mike R.

Posts: 9
Joined: 9/10/2008
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I know this isn't a fishing report but this will be my last entree on this posting. I fly fished for the first time and here is how it went. I fished Manchester hole and hooked and landed a 3 pound steel head on a black wooley bugger, I then went up stream to the falls and hooked and landed another on the same thing and the fish was the same size.
I went to the elk creek access and missed the first big steel head when it swirled on a black wooly bugger. I then changed to a zonker and hook a big fish but it broke me off. I missed a few other strikes. And then I hook a 6 pound fish that was out of the water more than it was in, and landed it, With out a dought it was the funnest day of fish Ive every had. Again thanks for the advise.

(in reply to Mike R.)

Post #: 22

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