Mountain Lions????

Mountain Lions????

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Mountain Lions???? - 11/26/2007 2:24:54 PM

Esox_Hunter

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Well I know this topic has been beaten to death and back. But over the course of the past 2 weeks I have the same story about a mountain lion shot in the same area. I heard the story 3 different times from 3 different people who certaintly would never cross paths. The story was exactly the same from the 3 people as well, location, date, details all the same. the claim is that on Bonnebrook road just north of Penn United in Butler county that an Emu farmer had several of his animals eaten about 2 weeks ago. So the farmer waited out one night about 2 weeks ago and shot the predator....a mountain lion.

Has anyone else heard this story??? I find it hard to believe that the people who told me lied about it but im still quite a bit skeptical. Im hoping to find some pictures and such....probably not likely going to be put in a newspaper.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/26/2007 7:27:12 PM

Slate_Drake_9

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At this point, a mountain lion being shot in Pennsylvania is more believable to me than a deer being shot.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/27/2007 8:30:29 AM

SilverKype

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You could try talking to the farmer directly ??

Here's some pics from Purdue (however it's spelled) mountain, north of Bellefonte, or so they say it's from there... take it for what it's worth.

There was one hit near the PA/Maryland this past winter. Thought it got confirmed. Never heard much about it though.

< Message edited by SilverKype -- 11/27/2007 8:31:46 AM >

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/27/2007 6:24:31 PM

Slate_Drake_9

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I had the exact same two pictures e-mailed to me about 3 years ago. The e-mail said they were taken in Tioga County. I think someone's playing games with us.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/27/2007 8:04:46 PM

Maga2120

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i heard of a story last friday of a farmer having his livestock killed by a mt lion and he called the game commission the game commission said there were no mountain lions in his area, week later he shot the mt lion the farmer and his wife (only 2 people knowing about it) burried the lion, 2 days later the game commission came and un barried it and fined him. the mt lion had a tracking device in it, and from what people have been telling me they know were the lion is at, at all times and know its body temp and all kinds of stuff. like that.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/27/2007 9:09:09 PM

juddthejudge

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u know we have coyotes which for the longest time was denied by the commission. then the reintroduction of fishers to PA so as if the populationof deer isn down enoguth the newest idea mountain lions. and yes i beleive they are experimenting around with it because ot many people includig me have seen one its either the commission or someone in pa really likes them alot and is bing ing them in on thier own

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/27/2007 10:28:56 PM

bluntman

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copied this from another site

A significant percentage of people in PA say the PGC is the least trusted government agency in the state, because the PGC has stated for years, emphatically, that there are no mountain lions in Pennsylvania, even though hundreds of people in Pennsylvania, including many government employees, have seen mountain lions.

It seems that credible people in PA who have clearly seen a mountain lion do not like to be told that they did not see a mountain lion. Until earlier this year (2007) the PGC routinely offered unwavering denials to mountain lion sightings, until a farmer named Roger Madigan saw one, along with several other people, on his farm after a large outdoor party which included a roast pig cookout. Roger Madigan is a Pennsylvania State Senator. Madigan apparently didn't like being told that he did not see a mountain lion, because after his sighting he called a meeting in his office with the PGC, and brought in the only other wildlife agency that could assert jurisdiction over the heads of the PGC regarding the mountain lion issue. That agency was the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The USFWS can assert jurisdiction regarding moutain lions under the Endangered Species Act. The push of the meeting was apparently to force PGC's official position to something more rational-sounding, like "There might be mountain lions in Pennsylvania." The official statement at the end of the meeting stated that USFWS concluded that there "needs to be a study" to determine whether (and if so, how many) mountain lions exist in Pennsylvania. The USFWS now asks the public to send sighting reports of wild mountain lions directly to the USFWS, rather than to the PGC, in apparent recognition of the PGC's long-standing practice of whitewashing any sighting reports sent their way.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/27/2007 10:47:36 PM

SilverKype

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A fella in Spruce Creek had a few wolves in his backyard for a few years. Two years ago, the cage disappeared. Don't know what happened to them. They were visible along route 45.

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Post #: 8

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 11:12:06 AM

RIZ

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we do not want there to be mt lions in PA. the feds will have juisdiction over everything to do with them, like wolves in ID, WY, MT. so everyone wanting the mt. lion officially mentioned will not be happy with what happens afterwards. becareful what you wish for, you just may get it.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 1:21:52 PM

scaremypsu

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Bluntman, I am sure the website you got this off of is a very reputable site. As I recall, it is from the Big foot website and was written because the game comission wouldnt agree the trail photos taken a while back was a juvenile bigfoot!

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 5:54:44 PM

bluntman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scaremypsu

Bluntman, I am sure the website you got this off of is a very reputable site. As I recall, it is from the Big foot website and was written because the game comission wouldnt agree the trail photos taken a while back was a juvenile bigfoot!

Thats where it is from however there are no opinions in this quote from them, only a report about a meeting that took place in a state reps office, I also have an email in to my local state rep to see what her take on this meeting was

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 7:45:57 PM

Slate_Drake_9

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Let me add this.

A few years ago the local fire department was called to a vehicle/animal wreck. Along the crashed car was a dead mountain lion according to the fire chief and crew and police. The PGC came to the accident when notified and told everyone there that the mountain lion was a deer. They picked up the dead animal, put it in the back of the truck and left.

A state park officer my wife knew told my wife and I that the mountain lion we saw in May 2002 was most likely an otter moving from one watershed to another through the woods. Biggest otter I've ever seen, by the way. I would say it could have grabbed me and took me up a tree to eat me, if otters could climb a tree.

The PGC does deny that there are "Mountain Lions" in Pennsylvania, but their officers do not deny that there are "cougars" in Pennsylvania.

Food for thought. Next time you talk to someone from the PA Game Mismanagement Commission ask them about "cougars" not "mountain lions."

_____________________________

Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

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Post #: 12

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 10:16:21 PM

rsquared

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Esox -

I live in Jefferson Twp. about 5 or 6 miles from that emu farm. Hadn't heard anything about that till I read it here. I know a few guys that seem to know all the latest hunting news & gossip in the area. I'll ask them if they've heard anything.

A couple of years ago - maybe 2 or 3 - my next door neighbor said she saw a huge cat-like animal early one morning on her way to work on our road. She said it was definitely too big to be a bob cat, and she's seen a few before at their camp up north near Mt. Jewett. A neighboring farmer - who told me directly - said he found huge cat-like prints in the snow on his land too. About the same time, another neighbor's dog was attacked and killed by another animal at night. Nobody ever confirmed what killed it. Maybe it was the real deal?

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 10:25:22 PM

Esox_Hunter

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Rsquared,

Thanks for the input, hopefully you can find out more than I was able too. I still haven't come up with enough info to convince myself. I know what can happen when a story gets passes through multiple hands. However, there always is that slim chance. By the way, the people who told me the story all claimed it had a radio in its ear.

Check this video out too....probably not from PA but who knows.

http://www.wpxi.com/video/14539923/index.html

(in reply to rsquared)

Post #: 14

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/28/2007 10:58:35 PM

rsquared

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Esox -

Just curious, if you're from around this area? Could you tell me where you heard it from? People that work at Penn United or live around there? Shoot me a PM if you don't mind with the details. I'm curious to see if I know any of these people.

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Post #: 15

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 8:30:14 AM

SilverKype

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Erie insurance stocking.

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m186/danceswithskunks/?action=view&current=MTLIONs-1.flv

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 10:45:26 AM

scaremypsu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

Let me add this.

A few years ago the local fire department was called to a vehicle/animal wreck. Along the crashed car was a dead mountain lion according to the fire chief and crew and police. The PGC came to the accident when notified and told everyone there that the mountain lion was a deer. They picked up the dead animal, put it in the back of the truck and left.

A state park officer my wife knew told my wife and I that the mountain lion we saw in May 2002 was most likely an otter moving from one watershed to another through the woods. Biggest otter I've ever seen, by the way. I would say it could have grabbed me and took me up a tree to eat me, if otters could climb a tree.

The PGC does deny that there are "Mountain Lions" in Pennsylvania, but their officers do not deny that there are "cougars" in Pennsylvania.

Food for thought. Next time you talk to someone from the PA Game Mismanagement Commission ask them about "cougars" not "mountain lions."

Cougars are mountain lions but from western origin. Also, i have never seen anything were the game commission says there are positively no mountain lions in Pennsylvania. They state there is no conclusive evidence that there are free ranging wild mountain lions in Pennyslvania. There have been mountain lions found in pennsylvania but DNA analysis shows they are from western origin "cougar" meaning they were released here. The PGC has investigate many sightings and they havnt found any conclusive evidence. Penn state recieves evidence all that time and they have no conclusive evidence as well. How many cases has the USFWS found conclusive after they announced they were taking on investigation of mountain lion sightings? I don't understand why people think this is a conspiracy. If there are mountain lions great, but why do people think the game commission is hiding it. What would be the logical reasoning behind it? I am sure I will get a reply referring to the stocking of coyotes as well and how the PGC lied about that. If you look at any state east of the Mississipi coyote populations have been increased dramatically. So either the PGC and insurance company are introducing them everywhere in the eastern US and Candada or the populations are increasing and expanding their range. I think it is halarious what I hear out of people, I have talked to people who has been seeing a black panther, stocking mountain lions a few miles from my house, peoples friends brothers cousin seeing a coyote stocking truck. It is amazing how far these stories travel in so quick of time. Its like when I come in from fishing on the lake and limit out. I tell one person and the next day there are 200 boats there.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 10:53:03 AM

scaremypsu

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Taken out of a PGC press release

"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is working to compile and evaluate scientific evidence to understand the status of the eastern cougar and to determine what future actions the Service should take," Roe said. "We receive alleged sighting reports from various places in the state, and we encourage Pennsylvanians to direct their comments to the USFWS." As part of the review, the USFWS is seeking information on the status of the eastern cougar in the 21 states -- from Maine to South Carolina and westward from Michigan to Tennessee -- where the Endangered Species Act protects it. Lacking definitive evidence of the species' existence, the Service has presumed the eastern cougar to be extinct. According to the USFWS, it is improbable that a small cougar population persisted in the eastern states for over a century. Most of the confirmed cougar records since 1950 (animals killed, good quality photos/videos, genetic evidence) are known to be escapes of captive origin. There may be thousands of captive cougars in the eastern United States.

The USFWS are trying to cover it up as well!

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 1:41:22 PM

TJR178

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I'm originally from Butler and I still hunt there. I didn't here anything about that mountain lion, but I believe it.

Also, my buddy has pics of a mountain lion that was on his sister's back porch in Franklin.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 10:43:08 PM

nightowl207

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From the research ive gathered, i believe that there are no eastern moutain lion species left. however, i do believe there are mountain lions that were brought in by human, there are many ways an exotic animal can be brought into pennsylvania. my uncle lives in ellwood city, pa and he has a friend who has a mountain lion and a permit for it. this guy has had moutain lions from the time he was a kid, when you could get away with having whatever animal you could get your hands on. anyway, he said he used to go to ohio and buy them like they were any domestic animal. and says you still can buy them, just have a secluded place to have em and dont get caught. but yet i do believe the game commission tries to hide the found mountain lions, for many of reasons. just a couple years ago, a guy that works with my dad was tring to sell me his alligator that was getting to big for him to keep. he said if he cant sell it hes throwing it in the river. well he didnt sell it to me and my guess is it went in the river. I sure as hell wasnt buying it. Also another incident ive seen, a friend of mine shot a coyote in venango county near the allegeny river that had a tag in its ear that just had #s on it. he called the game commission and they said they dont know what it was about and told him not to worry about it. Could this be an escaped exotic pet, some survey animal, or was it released by an agency? who knows.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 11:14:42 PM

DanesDad

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I know guy who has a sister in law, whose daughters best friend swears she's seen bigfoot in Pennsylvania.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 11:24:04 PM

rsquared

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Did it have a radio collar on it, or just tags in its ear? My cousin's uncle's nephew saw two bigfoots (bigfeet?) out stocking coyotes once up north.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/29/2007 11:41:57 PM

Esox_Hunter

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Aside from the mountain lion question, I can honestly confirm an explosion of coyotes around my area (northern allegheny county). I never even heard word of a coyote in the area until about 3 years ago. Now I have witnessed more than 5 deer shot in the evening during archery, destroyed between the time they were shot and the following morning from coyotes(people I hunt with like to wait until early morning to track them if its cold enough). I now sometimes hear their eerie howls in the evenings while walking out of the woods. Hard to say why the population went from near zero to thriving in a very short time. I hate to speculate, but the fact is they have exploded, makes ya wonder huh. Seems odd in my neck of the woods that we now need to worry about coyotes and mountain lions....lol. If the game commission had a part in this they did a hell of a job, we currently have a coyote, mountain lion, and a deer problem.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 1:39:38 AM

nightowl207

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

I know guy who has a sister in law, whose daughters best friend swears she's seen bigfoot in Pennsylvania.

my best friends second cousin know this kid dane whos dad puts whip cream on his nuts cause its the only way to get his heifer to lick em.

dont be so nieve buddy, thats what makes you so dumb.

< Message edited by nightowl207 -- 11/30/2007 1:41:34 AM >

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 7:49:47 AM

SilverKype

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Again--

Please explain to me WHY the PGC would stock coyotes, then:

Have no bag limits
Allow hunters to shoot them 365 days a year
Allow baiting for them.

Sure would be a stupid investment don't ya think ??

Anyway, think about what you would do if you killed a coyote with a tag in its ear. What would be the FIRST thing you'd do ?

Damn right, you'd take a picture. Where are the pictures folks ??? You would think by now someone would have at least played a joke.

Lost in the wind...

< Message edited by SilverKype -- 11/30/2007 7:53:18 AM >

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Post #: 25

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 11:24:54 AM

thedrake

Posts: 1374
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From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

Let me add this.

A few years ago the local fire department was called to a vehicle/animal wreck. Along the crashed car was a dead mountain lion according to the fire chief and crew and police. The PGC came to the accident when notified and told everyone there that the mountain lion was a deer. They picked up the dead animal, put it in the back of the truck and left.

A state park officer my wife knew told my wife and I that the mountain lion we saw in May 2002 was most likely an otter moving from one watershed to another through the woods. Biggest otter I've ever seen, by the way. I would say it could have grabbed me and took me up a tree to eat me, if otters could climb a tree.

The PGC does deny that there are "Mountain Lions" in Pennsylvania, but their officers do not deny that there are "cougars" in Pennsylvania.

Food for thought. Next time you talk to someone from the PA Game Mismanagement Commission ask them about "cougars" not "mountain lions."

I'm not doubting your story, but i'm unsure why the fire department and police were called to respond to a car accident involving a mountain lion? Did the car hit a tree also? I just cant see something the size of a mountain lion doing a lot of damage to a car.

(in reply to Slate_Drake_9)

Post #: 26

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 11:42:48 AM

thedrake

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rsquared

Did it have a radio collar on it, or just tags in its ear? My cousin's uncle's nephew saw two bigfoots (bigfeet?) out stocking coyotes once up north.

I actually talked to bigfoot up north a year or two ago while I was helping stock mountain lions for the insurance companies. He was very nice, and helped with the stocking. He told me that bigfoots (or bigfeet), were stocked by Dr. Alt back when he was in charge of the deer herd. Bigfoot told me that he heard hyenas and tigers were going to be stocked next, but not to tell anyone, but I figured the secret would be safe with you guys.

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 11:55:49 AM

scaremypsu

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Nightowl,
think about the population dynamics of the coyote, they have few predators, high survival, able to reproduce at a young age and have large litters. Animals that are in areas of abundant resources exibit an exponential growth curve. Coyotes have an average litter of 5-7 per year. In three years that single pair of coyotes can produce 21 coyotes( you said you didnt see a coyote around your house 3 years ago). But, the offspring are capable of reproducing as well. Lets say the first years offspring reproduced (although more comonly after the 2nd year). So lets say the first year litter was 6 pups, for simplicity we will say there are 3 males and 3 females and they bred together producing lets say 5 offspring each. That would be 48 coyotes in two years from 1 original pair. You can only imagine what the number would be after one more year to make it 3 years, plus I dont feel like thinking that hard. Nightowl, Not trying to give you a hard time just letting you know how quickly populations can grow, especially for an animal capable of producing 5-7 offspring each year. There are plenty of examples in the past where animals were almost extirpated and now the populations are huge. Look at geese, believe it or not they were almost exterpated in the early 1900's, same with deer, look at comorants expanding their range. It happens, again I don't even see why the game commission would deny stocking coyotes if they did. Every other animal they have reintroduced, has been covered extensively by the news and publications as well as studies, Fishers, otters, elk, hacking of eagles. Why wouldn't they disclose they introduced them? If your answer is: people would be upset because it would decrease deer numbers. Well they did that publicly through increasing doe licences, they didnt seem to care about people complaining then. So as Silverkype has mentioned there are easier ways to go about it then stock coyotes, just something to think about.

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Post #: 28

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 4:48:41 PM

TransAmWS6

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Coyote population is one of the very few species to expand and grow tremendously since human inquest in the united states, almost every state has coyotes now and alot of them

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 4:50:24 PM

TransAmWS6

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http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=458&q=163663 read that

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Post #: 30