NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND???

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Captain George
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2016/11/02 10:25:25 (permalink)

NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND???

Was walkin through my neighbors farm to get to my deer stand yesterday and noticed he had two steelhead in a makeshift live-well and he tossed them into his pond?? Is this legal?? Will they survive? The pond is about an acre. He has some carp blue gill and perch in there already. He's a little coo-coo if you know what I'm saying. I figure when it freezes the fish won't last without oxygen
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    PooFLinger
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 10:30:34 (permalink)
    Doubt they will live..

    Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
    #2
    Fisherlady2
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 10:40:57 (permalink)
    I believe it is against the law to transport live fish from the Erie watershed to other waters due to disease risks. on mobile now so can't easily look up the regulation but if my memory is ok it was VHS?  I'm sure someone can fact check me on that. 
     
    Thankfully it is a pond so all he will do is contaminate his own fish....
     
    Edited to correct name of contagious condition , thanks for the fact check Borg! 
    post edited by Fisherlady2 - 2016/11/02 22:23:50
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    jat1007
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 10:43:39 (permalink)
    almost positive to re-stock fish is illegal ... either way if they don't die over the winter they will die in the summer unless that lake is DEEP...
     
    this is how those stupid asain carp got all over the Mississippi and they're creeping up the Ohio wiping everything out... only a matter of time until they're all over the Mississippi water shed.
     
    just like the **** lampreys that got into the upper great lakes whenever that canal was built and allowed them to get over Niagara falls... people ruin everything...
     
    i read an article  that said Conneaut creek is one of the three major spawning areas for the lampreys because its upper reaches have such a muddy/silt bottom which is perfect for their spawning....
     
    caught a steelhead recently on a pa trib that had a round wound by its pectoral fin... guessing it was from a lamprey.


    #4
    BorgCollective
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 11:34:02 (permalink)
    from the Erie regs:
    Doesn't specify "steelhead" but probably covered under "rainbow trout".
    Transportation of VHS-Susceptible Fish       Out of the Lake Erie      Watershed
    An infectious fish disease, caused by a variant of Viral Hemorrhagic Septicemia        Virus (VHS), has caused fish mortalities in the Great Lakes. The initial list of fish species that are        susceptible to VHS includes Black Crappie, Bluegill, Bluntnose Minnow, Brown Bullhead, Brown Trout, Burbot,        Channel Catfish, Chinook Salmon, Coho Salmon, Emerald Shiner, Freshwater Drum, Gizzard Shad, Herring,        Largemouth Bass, Muskellunge, Northern Pike, Pink Salmon, Pumpkinseed, Rainbow Trout, Redhorse Sucker,        Rock Bass, Smallmouth Bass, Walleye, White Bass, White Perch, Whitefish and Yellow Perch.
    It is unlawful        to transport or cause the transportation of VHS-susceptible species of fish out of the portion of the        Lake Erie Watershed in this Commonwealth into other watersheds of this Commonwealth except when certain        conditions are met. It is illegal to use VHS-susceptible fish species, fish parts and eggs taken from        the Lake Erie Watershed as fishbait in Commonwealth waters outside the Lake Erie Watershed except        when the fish are certified as VHS-negative. It is legal to transport dead recreationally caught fish        out of the Lake Erie Watershed solely for the purpose of human consumption.
    Because of diseases and invasive        species, the Commission recommends as a good conservation practice that anglers not transport any live        fish out of the Lake Erie Watershed and introduce those fish into other watersheds. For more information        on invasive species, please see “Aquatic Nuisance Species.” For more information on VHS, please contact the Commission’s          Northwest Regional Office or visit our VHS information page.

    Yes, we are still here!
    #5
    PooFLinger
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 11:41:15 (permalink)
    I would imagine a private pond isnt illegal, but if you took a steelhead and put it in say.. the allegheny river then, yea you are breaking the law

    Gill em to kill em then Rope em smoke em
    #6
    Guest
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 11:51:25 (permalink)
    captaingeorge
     Is this legal?? 




    Here's a sure fire way to find out:
     
    NORTHWEST (Counties: Butler, Clarion, Crawford, Erie, Forest, Lawrence, Mercer, Venango, Warren)
    11528 State Highway 98
    Meadville, PA 16335
    Law Enforcement
    Telephone: (814) 337-0444


     
    #7
    jat1007
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 11:52:00 (permalink)
    it is illegal, read it.... 
     
    sure those steelhead prob wont cause any harm but they could 


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    genieman77
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 12:03:26 (permalink)
    fishfashfush
    I would imagine a private pond isnt illegal, but if you took a steelhead and put it in say.. the allegheny river then, yea you are breaking the law



     
    That's what II was wondering
    Maybe a dumb question... But is a private farm pond considered part of the "watershed"
     
    One could reasonably presume so if pond was fed by a creek or river feeder creek.
    But spring fed, and/or  perf pipe field drainage maybe not???
     
     
     
    Will they live??
    Depends how deep and naturally oxygenated I reckon
    Maybe even how it's fed???...like spring, creek or other??
     
     
    LTA
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    Divemaster
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 12:46:21 (permalink)
    genieman77
    fishfashfush
    I would imagine a private pond isnt illegal, but if you took a steelhead and put it in say.. the allegheny river then, yea you are breaking the law


     That's what II was wonderingMaybe a dumb question... But is a private farm pond considered part of the "watershed" One could reasonably presume so if pond was fed by a creek or river feeder creek.But spring fed, and/or  perf pipe field drainage maybe not???   Will they live??Depends how deep and naturally oxygenated I reckonMaybe even how it's fed???...like spring, creek or other??  LTA


    I think as long as it is somehow connected to the watershed, it would count as restocking and be illegal, which is why the PFBC only allows certain species to be stocked in open system for each of the six major watersheds in the state.

    But, can you imagine if the 1 acre pond was deep and cold enough to support and grow Steelhead during the summer, and there was a creek feeding in to it large enough for fish to run up in the fall... Oh man, whenever I buy a house, there better be room in the back yard for a 1 acre 300' deep pond with a manmade recirculating creek :).
    #10
    genieman77
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 15:44:17 (permalink)
    Divemaster
    genieman77
    fishfashfush
    I would imagine a private pond isnt illegal, but if you took a steelhead and put it in say.. the allegheny river then, yea you are breaking the law


     That's what II was wonderingMaybe a dumb question... But is a private farm pond considered part of the "watershed" One could reasonably presume so if pond was fed by a creek or river feeder creek.But spring fed, and/or  perf pipe field drainage maybe not???   Will they live??Depends how deep and naturally oxygenated I reckonMaybe even how it's fed???...like spring, creek or other??  LTA


    I think as long as it is somehow connected to the watershed, it would count as restocking and be illegal, which is why the PFBC only allows certain species to be stocked in open system for each of the six major watersheds in the state.

    But, can you imagine if the 1 acre pond was deep and cold enough to support and grow Steelhead during the summer, and there was a creek feeding in to it large enough for fish to run up in the fall... Oh man, whenever I buy a house, there better be room in the back yard for a 1 acre 300' deep pond with a manmade recirculating creek :).



     
     
    I have two little acres ....I've given thought for years now about putting in a half acre pond for bass and bluegill
     
    I'd kill a bunch of birds with one stone...
     
    Bass to catch, gills to eat, tons of dirt for a kickazx three sided  pistol shootoing bay/berm......and 1\2 acre LESS grass to mow...what's not to love about all thaT
     
     
    LTA
    post edited by genieman77 - 2016/11/02 15:45:22
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    Divemaster
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/02 19:25:29 (permalink)
    genieman77
    Divemaster
    genieman77
    fishfashfush
    I would imagine a private pond isnt illegal, but if you took a steelhead and put it in say.. the allegheny river then, yea you are breaking the law


    That's what II was wonderingMaybe a dumb question... But is a private farm pond considered part of the "watershed" One could reasonably presume so if pond was fed by a creek or river feeder creek.But spring fed, and/or  perf pipe field drainage maybe not???   Will they live??Depends how deep and naturally oxygenated I reckonMaybe even how it's fed???...like spring, creek or other??  LTA


    I think as long as it is somehow connected to the watershed, it would count as restocking and be illegal, which is why the PFBC only allows certain species to be stocked in open system for each of the six major watersheds in the state.

    But, can you imagine if the 1 acre pond was deep and cold enough to support and grow Steelhead during the summer, and there was a creek feeding in to it large enough for fish to run up in the fall... Oh man, whenever I buy a house, there better be room in the back yard for a 1 acre 300' deep pond with a manmade recirculating creek :).


      I have two little acres ....I've given thought for years now about putting in a half acre pond for bass and bluegill I'd kill a bunch of birds with one stone... Bass to catch, gills to eat, tons of dirt for a kickazx three sided  pistol shootoing bay/berm......and 1\2 acre LESS grass to mow...what's not to love about all thaT  LTA


    Absolutely! My philosophy is, if there's room for a pond, make one, lol. Honestly though, when I go to buy my own place, I'm going to make sure I've got at least a couple acres adequate for a big pond. More water to fish and less grass to cut 👍. Theoretically, if I made it 2-3 acres, I'd dig it as deep as legally allowed (I'm guessing 100-300' range is the limit even with permits and no pipes present), make sure there's plenty of gravel and sand substrate and very few plants to eliminate silt. If there's a creek around, use water from it to renew the pond and if not, make some kind of recirculating system to pump pond water up a hill and back down in in the form of a creek, and then put all kinds of cool fish in there. Steelhead, Browns, Brookies, Lakers, Kokanee, Burbot, White Bass, Drum, Smallies, Channel Cats, Shiners, Sculpins, Darters, and maaaaaybe Walleye ;). Probably just dreaming here, but if the water is cold enough and has enough O2, then.....
    #12
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 01:11:29 (permalink)
    As far as Erie Steelhead not sure if it's legal now with VHS. 
    They ( Pa. Fish Commish ) use to net them from Trout Run ,milk them, and restock them in the Fairview gravel pit ponds for years !
     
    I had friends who took Stocked Trout home in a bucket and released them in their own ponds. They did rather well providing fresh water flowed into ponds and they were deep enough. They say you need a pond at least about 10 ft. deep so as to hold oxygen in when they freeze up.  
    #13
    Mountian Man
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 04:08:30 (permalink)
    Are the snakeheads to rt5 yet?

    Thread Killer

    Veni Vidi Vici...
    #14
    DarDys
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 07:30:23 (permalink)
    For those wanting to build a pond, take a look at the number of government agencies and the amount of paperwork required. Before being granted the necessary permits needed to do what you want to do on your own land.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    Divemaster
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 08:12:09 (permalink)
    DarDys
    For those wanting to build a pond, take a look at the number of government agencies and the amount of paperwork required. Before being granted the necessary permits needed to do what you want to do on your own land.


    Yes, it's rediculous, but would be worth it to me. If I don't have an outdoor pond, there's either going to be one in my basement or a creek through my living room. You guys laugh now, but a recirculating custom made glass aquarium going along the edges of a room cold enough for Brookies is something I may be curious (or stupid?) enough to try :D.
    #16
    genieman77
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 09:08:01 (permalink)
    DarDys
    For those wanting to build a pond, take a look at the number of government agencies and the amount of paperwork required. Before being granted the necessary permits needed to do what you want to do on your own land.



     
    A know a guy in the area that dug a 6-8 acre  pond.
    a creek thru his property fed it.
    What he did was essentially dam the creek after excavating
     
    big no-no
    several years after  building the pond, they made him remove  the dam
    His great pond is nothing more than a big  hole with a tiny creek/drainage ditch running thru the middle 
     
     
    I haven't looked into any regs on farm ponds.
    Truth is, I'd rent the equipment and fly under the radar anyway.
    No creeks, natural or otherwise  to feed it...unlikely  I'd  draw any attention from Fed, State or local authorities
    I'd have to rely on perf pipe drain from my farmer neighbor's  fields
    (which i know he'll let me run)
     
    ..L.T.A.
     
    #17
    DarDys
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 10:21:01 (permalink)
    About a 1/2 mile down the road, a guy put in about a 1/2 acre pond. It was fed by a spring in his hay field. The discharge, which I never saw functioning also went into his hay field. The pond wasn't over five feet deep.

    PennDot, yes, PennDot had him remove it because it was within 100 feet (or 150, I don't recall exactly now) of a two lane PennDot maintained road and that is a no-no because someone might drive off the curve and end up in the pond. Because there are no guide (guard?) rails there, they didn't want someone from a wreck drowning in the pond. Yep, that was their government logic.

    My next door neighbor, used some creek stone to alter the path of the creek that runs along the edge of his property. The diversion moved the creek bed about 15 feet for a distance of about 50 feet. He used no equipment to move the stones, just picked and piled to create a diverter like is done with stream improvement projects.

    He owns both sides of the stream and the stream bed movement kept the stream on his property. In addition, he did the work in the dead of winter when no one was around.

    Within a month of making the change, DCNR, the Conservation District, and the PAFBC showed up. Not only did they make him put the stream back into the regular channel (which changes frequently due to high water), he paid a $10,000 fine as well.

    The stream is an approved trout water, but isn't stocked (it is not class A) for more than a mile either upstream or down.

    I wanted to do some stream improvement to our creek (we own both sides) to create some deeper holding water. I friend has a connection to US Fish and Wildlife, so instead of me wrangling with at least three government agencies, i used them because they were the "fast track" to getting all the studies, designs, and permits.

    They first looked at the stream (which they have done projects on already in different locations, so they had familiarity with the stream) in June of 2015. I still don't have the paperwork.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #18
    Porktown
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 10:58:33 (permalink)
    My Aunt has a few ponds on her property.  My cousin deals with all of the legal issues and upkeep, ect.  I think if spring fed, there is a lot less issues, both legally and potential disaster, than damming a creek and making a reservoir.  I think they had to design the overflow a certain way, and had a good bit of time and money in the planning phase, to avoid any property damage to others.  A failed creek dam, could be disastrous to those down stream.  I'm sure there are examples of government overreaching, but to just dig and dam an existing creek, is not a good idea.
     
    I don't think digging 100'-300' would do much for steel head.  Once it gets so deep, that water doesn't keep oxygen.  You will probably hit bedrock muck sooner, and would be very expensive to get through it.   I'd bet the steelhead could live from fall until spring if enough forage in a pond deep enough to not freeze solid.  Might be able to catch a few times for fun?  I highly doubt you could get conditions on a 1 acre pond to hold them over the summer, yet make them bigger.  Maybe hold them, if you had a cold water spring feeding.  
     
    Better off like Genie said on the blue gills for food and large mouth or channel cats for enjoyment.  The gills in my Aunt's pond are almost all hand size and many large mouth are 20"+.
    #19
    fisherofmen376
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 11:06:02 (permalink)
    That kinda stuff makes me lose faith in the givernment to care for us and help us with our problems!!! (sarcasm).
    Amazing that some folks want MORE government.
    Not to worry, help is on da way!! There's a radio ad where joe Biden assures us that "Hillary will wake up every day looking for ways to make our lives better.". Haha!!
    post edited by fisherofmen376 - 2016/11/03 11:09:05

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    Divemaster
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 11:41:08 (permalink)
    Porktown
    My Aunt has a few ponds on her property.  My cousin deals with all of the legal issues and upkeep, ect.  I think if spring fed, there is a lot less issues, both legally and potential disaster, than damming a creek and making a reservoir.  I think they had to design the overflow a certain way, and had a good bit of time and money in the planning phase, to avoid any property damage to others.  A failed creek dam, could be disastrous to those down stream.  I'm sure there are examples of government overreaching, but to just dig and dam an existing creek, is not a good idea. I don't think digging 100'-300' would do much for steel head.  Once it gets so deep, that water doesn't keep oxygen.  You will probably hit bedrock muck sooner, and would be very expensive to get through it.   I'd bet the steelhead could live from fall until spring if enough forage in a pond deep enough to not freeze solid.  Might be able to catch a few times for fun?  I highly doubt you could get conditions on a 1 acre pond to hold them over the summer, yet make them bigger.  Maybe hold them, if you had a cold water spring feeding.   Better off like Genie said on the blue gills for food and large mouth or channel cats for enjoyment.  The gills in my Aunt's pond are almost all hand size and many large mouth are 20"+.


    Well, maybe not that deep then haha. Could probably use some sort of aeration device to mix the deep water with the shallow so that it is oxygenated, or have a spring come in at the bottom like the finger lakes have, but we'll see, that's still years away for me. There's a quarry I dive at in NWOH that's about 1-2 acres. Half of it is shallow, 8-80' deep with a sand and cobble substrate while the other half drops off to deep water that is 80-130' deep with a cobble and boulder substrate. There's no water that feeds in to it, no creeks or springs, and no artificial aeration, and relatively little plant life other than right along the shoreline. Yet, water temperature even in August never rises above 74° at the surface, the very bottom is 38-39° all year, and in the 30-80' range in the summer, the water is 55-62°. Visibility ranges from 5-100' in it and it supports thriving fish life all year. Everything from Rainbow Trout, Smallmouth and Largemouth Bass, Bluegill, Crappie, Channel Catfish, Paddlefish, and even Lake Sturgeon. The O2 levels must be pretty high somehow, since the trout will be as far as 100' down to as shallow as an inch or two under the surface at any point during the year.

    I definitely want to figure out some way to make a year-round coldwater pond in the future. Bass are okay and all, but I wouldn't make a pond for something I can find in nearly any lake in PA. Lake Trout, Brookies, and Burbot on the other hand, I'd invest a good chunk of money for to have available in my back yard.
    post edited by Divemaster - 2016/11/03 11:43:41
    #21
    Lucky13
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 14:23:41 (permalink)
    WE had a guy up here who wanted Lake Trout stocked in a Stormwater Pond. WE had a heck of a time educating him on limnology and the habitat requirement of the fish.  Before you start building a "pond" that will support Burbot and Lake trout, yuou may want to look around at buying your very own oligotrophic Lake as the purchase will likely be a lot cheaper than the construction project, and Ma Nature has already been successful, where as you have about a snowball's chance in hell of getting it to work.  Please name me one man made dug lake that supports lake trout and Burbot.  I want Pigs to fly so I can get my bacon with a shotgun, but.....
     
    Also, you may want to look at a civil engineering text to get a sense of how big a hole it takes at the surface to hit a depth of 100-200 feet, depending on soil type, bedrock type, permeability, etc.
     
    The reason there are so many regulations about this stuff is that the water belongs to everyone (the State), and when people don't do their due diligence ( homework) before they start building stuff, they can muck it up pretty good for everyone else!
     
     
    #22
    Divemaster
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 17:32:17 (permalink)
    Lucky13
    WE had a guy up here who wanted Lake Trout stocked in a Stormwater Pond. WE had a heck of a time educating him on limnology and the habitat requirement of the fish.  Before you start building a "pond" that will support Burbot and Lake trout, yuou may want to look around at buying your very own oligotrophic Lake as the purchase will likely be a lot cheaper than the construction project, and Ma Nature has already been successful, where as you have about a snowball's chance in hell of getting it to work.  Please name me one man made dug lake that supports lake trout and Burbot.  I want Pigs to fly so I can get my bacon with a shotgun, but..... Also, you may want to look at a civil engineering text to get a sense of how big a hole it takes at the surface to hit a depth of 100-200 feet, depending on soil type, bedrock type, permeability, etc. The reason there are so many regulations about this stuff is that the water belongs to everyone (the State), and when people don't do their due diligence ( homework) before they start building stuff, they can muck it up pretty good for everyone else!  


    Guess I'm moving to Manitoba :). Lol, I can just see someone from the state coming to inspect all the noise complaints from neighbors and seeing a 200' hole in my back yard hahaha! Honestly though, however that quarry is setup, which I'm still trying to figure out, I'd like to have something like that if I can get enough property. I'll have to talk to the owner next year when I'm there.
    #23
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 19:40:45 (permalink)
    Most regulations come about because of violators ! I agree some don't make sense, but when companies or people continue to take advantage of others by there misconduct, or illegal actions, regulations come into play . 
    #24
    Brad_porter77
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 21:36:31 (permalink)
    Rope em and stock em
    #25
    Divemaster
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    Re: NEIGHBOR PUTTING STEELHEAD IN HIS POND??? 2016/11/03 21:39:29 (permalink)
    Brad_porter77
    Rope em and stock em


    Allegheny River is going to be full of steelhead within a month here if I go by that policy :).
    #26
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