PREDATORS VS. DEER =

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Dr. Trout
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2014/12/22 17:24:30 (permalink)

PREDATORS VS. DEER =


ARE PREDATORS HURTING OUR DEER HERD?

Biologists from within the Game Commission and across the country are talking about it.
 
If you want to start a lively discussion on Pennsylvania wildlife, just mention coyotes.
There might be no other animal that so intrigues the state’s residents, and it’s easy to explain why.
The coyote is surrounded by mystery. It’s inhabited some parts of the state since the 1930s, but it’s a relative newcomer in others. Game Commission biologists are finding indications the coyote population is increasing in some areas of the state, yet even those who log endless hours in the Pennsylvania outdoors might go their lives without seeing one in the wild.
Add to that the false, recurring rumors coyotes were stocked by insurance companies, and the idea that coyotes ravage the deer populations so important to Pennsylvania hunters, and the reasons for coyote’s mystique become even clearer.
Wildlife biologists with the Pennsylvania Game Commission have met with leading biologists from across the country in an effort to better understand the influence of predators on deer populations.
“There are several predators in Pennsylvania that absolutely do kill deer, specifically young fawns,” said Chris Rosenberry, who heads the Game Commission’s deer and elk section. “Coyotes and bears top the list.”
In managing Pennsylvania’s deer populations, Rosenberry said, the agency annually monitors fawn production and has the ability to compensate for fawns lost to predators and other causes by controlling the number of antlerless deer licenses allocated. 
Game Commissioner David Putnam, of Centre Hall, said adjusting the allocation is an effective tool.
“However, this does not answer what is on the minds of Pennsylvania’s hunters; what impact are predators actually having on the state’s deer herd?” Putnam said.
The Game Commission studied the effects of fawn predation back in 2001. The study found about half of all fawns born each spring survived to see the fall hunting seasons. Predators including coyotes, bears, bobcats and fishers were responsible for killing about 22 percent of the fawns that died.
Game Commissioner James J. Delaney Jr., of Wilkes-Barre, said deer and predator populations, as well as habitat conditions, all have changed since the last study.
“For most of my seven years as commissioner, I have heard the concerns of many sportsmen across the state with regard to the effects of predators on white-tailed deer,” Delaney said. “We’ve done some good research work on this subject in the past, but opinions about predator impacts on deer still vary. By pulling together some of the top researchers in the country, we’ve entered into a conversation that will yield even more valuable input on the matter.”
Leading biologists from the U.S. Forest Service, Penn State, the University of Georgia, Mississippi State University, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation, the University of Alberta, and the Quality Deer Management Association were among those who provided input on evaluating the impact of predators on the state’s deer.
“These biologists have led research throughout the eastern United States looking at the impact of predation on deer,” said Game Commission Executive Director R. Matthew Hough. “Their experience and insight from their past and current research is of great interest to the agency, and to our hunters.”
One common opinion offered by some hunters is to use predator control to reduce predation on fawns. However, large-scale predator control repeatedly has been found not to work. For example, U.S. Forest Service researcher John Kilgo conducted research in South Carolina, which found that even when coyotes were taken in higher numbers, other coyotes quickly filled the void created by their absence.
“There is no doubt that predators such as bears and coyotes do prey on fawns,” Kilgo said. “Although some researchers have been able to find instances where increased coyote removal has improved fawn survival at a very local level, coyote removal on a large scale is impossible.”
Mark Ternent, the Game Commission’s bear biologist, said while the Game Commission’s last study on fawn mortality showed differences between separate areas that were studied, how those areas differed in terms of predator abundance was a great unknown.
“When the results suggested fawn predation was different in the two study areas, an explanation was difficult to tease out,” Ternent said. “We knew habitat was different, and bear abundance within those particular wildlife management units was different, but we knew little about the predator communities at a scale as small as the study areas because monitoring predator species was not part of the study.”
The previous study showed fawns might die for any number of reasons. Some die of natural causes, some are struck by vehicles, and one fawn in the study even fell down a well.
Of the fawns taken by predators, nearly equal proportions were taken by coyotes, bobcats and bears.
Ternent noted that Pennsylvania’s bear population is thriving.
“We know we have not seen the statewide population of bears decrease since the last study,” said Ternent.
And Matt Lovallo, who supervises the Game Commission’s game mammals section, noted population changes among other predators, as well.
“Predator communities in Pennsylvania have changed during the past several decades due to increased coyote populations, fisher reintroductions and fishers dispersing in Pennsylvania from West Virginia,” Lovallo said. “Management programs for bobcats and fishers also have targeted conservative harvests, allowing for growth in those populations. 
“One area of interest biologists from the Game Commission and other agencies discussed is better understanding the community structure and relative abundance of forest predators in several areas of the state to provide insight on how these species compete for and partition prey resources,” Lovallo said.
Biologists also are evaluating techniques to allow them to estimate abundance of bears, coyotes, bobcats and fishers. In addition, advanced technologies now are available to help biologists gain more insight into fawn mortality.
“We know fawns are more vulnerable to mortality in the first week of life,” said Kip Adams, a wildlife biologist for the Quality Deer Management Association. “However, there are now small transmitters that can be implanted into captured does, and when a fawn is born, a signal is sent alerting researchers and leading them to the exact location, improving monitoring.”
The window within which fawns are preyed upon is relatively short. In actuality, the chances of fawns being preyed upon shrink with each passing day as fawns grow older and are more capable of fleeing from predators. Pennsylvania’s coyotes rarely take healthy adult deer, and ongoing monitoring has indicated predators have had a consistent rather than growing impact on fawns.
As a hunter, Hough said he understands the public’s interest in predators and the importance of tracking predator impacts on fawns. To hundreds of thousands of Pennsylvanians, deer hunting isn’t just a form of recreation, but a passion and a way of life, Hough said. And, like the Game Commission, those hunters want to ensure Pennsylvania’s important deer resource is managed to ensure healthy deer, healthy habitat and hunting opportunity.
“Like the saying goes, knowledge is power,” Hough said. “And the more we know about predator impacts on deer populations, the more empowered we are to comfortably manage deer populations to benefit all Pennsylvanians.”
To that end, the Game Commission is launching a new study into predator impacts on fawns.
The new study is a bit different than its predecessor. It will be conducted in conjunction with ongoing deer research, which, among other things, has helped to reduce costs. But, importantly, the connection to existing projects will help researchers to more efficiently and effectively carry out their work.
For example, the study calls for capturing does this winter to implant the transmitters that signal when fawns are born. The job is made easier by the fact that some of those does already are fitted with GPS collars as part of a separate study on deer movements.
Likewise, the implanted transmitters will make fawns easier to find and equip with collars.
The new study differs from the original in a second way, too.
The new study will measure the types of predators present in the study areas and their relative abundance, which will be useful for interpreting any differences in survival noted during the study.
Hough touted the strengths in scope of the new study and noted the changes in predator populations and wildlife habitat that have occurred more recently.
“The time has come for new research into predator impacts on deer, and we stand to learn much from this study our staff has worked hard to develop,” Hough said. “Hunters have made it clear: The question of how many fawns are lost to predators is on the minds of many, and this study could well help answer that question.”
 

#1

12 Replies Related Threads

    wayne c
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/22 18:41:09 (permalink)
    In managing Pennsylvania’s deer populations, Rosenberry said, the agency annually monitors fawn production and has the ability to compensate for fawns lost to predators and other causes by controlling the number of antlerless deer licenses allocated. 


    And they have done a very poor job of it, and that's why this is even an issue in the first place.   "predation" wouldn't even be noticeable in well managed vibrant deer populations.   There'd be "enough" deer to go 'round for predators of both the 2 legged and 4 legged variety.  This study is a complete waste of hunter dollars.   They wont do a thing about the coyote numbers as the season is already as liberal as it can get.   And a few less bear around in some areas is probably needed for multiple reasons, but not likely to satisfy anyone if the antlerless allocations etc. remain the same in those areas anyway.
     
    Just one more study to use to "fool" legislators into thinking they aren't sitting on their laurels, but doing something to address hunters concerns to just keep stringing things along 2 or 3 years at a time before making more excuses not to make changes then start all over again until this generation of hunters is done and gone as was stated by Alt.   In my estimation its 100% about "managing" hunters and legislators....not coyotes or deer.   We don't need yet another to tell us the same, or one that's self serving in nature to pgc being one lone voice of opposition to everyone else to do similar studies in other states would simply be laughable imo.
     
    Coyotes have been found to be significant predators of deer in most other states where such studies have been done, in fact Ive seen several and I have yet to see one say otherwise.  We have the same coyotes and the same deer.   And of course we know bobcat and bear aren't going to be passing up an easy fawn meal anytime soon.
     
    During the last pgc work group meeting, it was asked by a commissioner if the study areas could be used to represent statewide results, the answer by Rosenberry was NO.   He stated that a much more extensive study would need be done and that wouldn't be financially feasible.   The study respresents only the areas of the study, during the period of time the study was conducted.
     
    And that makes sense seeing as deer populations, habitat and number of predators vary greatly from region to region.  
     
    So them being so willing to waste money, knowing all this going in, reeks.  Reeks of the same stench as when they with help from Levdansky rigged the 'unbiased third party audit from out of state" that ended up being done by company of an ex deputy executive director of the Pa game commission. lol.
     
    It looks to me like they just want more garbage to twist up to suit the agenda, similar to the deer forest study.   They also no doubt want to continue to foster partnerships and "help" others.  qdmas Kip Adams is one of the participants.   He and qdma pa has been a pgc yes man since day one of the deer program.   Some of the other participating parties/agencies etc. have been up in it to their necks also.  This would benefit these other parties actually moreso than it will pgc.   Some of them are  not only gettin' paid for taking part, but also padding the resume, and gaining material for publication/writing.    All on OUR dime.    For any of them reading this, Your welcome.
    post edited by wayne c - 2014/12/22 19:10:52


    #2
    DarDys
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 07:56:57 (permalink)
    Predators take 22% of the fawns says the study. Just think how nice it would be to have those extra deer in the population

    Of course Alt, who headed up the bear program for decades was surprised to learn from a Penn State study that Bears ate fawns. And he hired Rosenberry.

    Why is the PGC doing any studies on anything? Rosenberry has proven that even though he has a PhD, he has no idea how to set up a basic control group study that had enough of a sampling size to produce any meaningful results. Look at the collared buck study as a prime example of how not to do a research study. There is a reason someone with a PhD is working at the PGC instead of doing research and teaching at a university -- the suck at it.

    If a study is needed, and there should be very rare instances when that is true, subcontract it out to real researchers at a university.

    Unless they won't come to the desired preconceived answer.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #3
    Esox_Hunter
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 11:35:41 (permalink)
    I know the depths of the earth must be frozen solid, but I agree with Wayne here. 
     
    It pointless to me to throw money at something when we already have the information we need at our disposal.  We all know that the results of this new study will not change the PGC's DMP either way.  We already have virtually unlimited coyote hunting and very liberal bear hunting seasons, so I don't think we're going to see many changes there.  To top it off, they selected two large study areas that are not exactly known as prime habitat areas, so any new results can't be translated to areas where the majority of hunters are spending their time.  I really fail to see what this study will accomplish or what benefits it will provide to hunters statewide.  
     
    I think I saw that they expect this study to cost around $1.4 million; just think of how far that money would go if used for habitat improvement projects...
            
    #4
    r3g3
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 14:05:32 (permalink)
    A decent bounty of Yotes everywhere might help a bit-over and above the pelt value.
    Heck when I was a kid back in the olden days Fox had a $5 bounty- ya took in the ears to the Town clerk.
    Wayyyyy too many predators for Turkey and Deer now- not to mention other small game.
    Had a hen Turkey with a full dozen young show up out back this year-then the red tails came and stayed day after day - in a week all we had was the hen.
    post edited by r3g3 - 2014/12/23 14:40:28
    #5
    S-10
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 15:10:50 (permalink)
    Problem= predators killing too many deer.
    Answer = reduce antlerless allocations to offset loss from predators.
     
    My fee for problem solving $400,000----I just saved the PGC one million dollars. LOL
    #6
    wayne c
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 15:54:53 (permalink)
    Funniest part for me is they act like they are going out of their way to somehow doing us some big favor with this and making it sound as if they all of a sudden, out of the blue, just decided that including it in with the "forest study" was a convenient way to go about this predator study by making some concessions and going above and beyond the forest study, moreso than originally intended.   Yet when I read the deer forest study research etc. to this point and all that it entails, there is little doubt in my mind a mortality study was to be included all along anyway whether we the "customers" wanted it or not.  They are already looking into just about every other aspect of the whitetails lives within the two study areas and fawn survival would've been the only thing they were missing if it weren't for this grand favor they are doing not at all out of their concern for the forests hobblebush and trillium biodiversity, timber etc..... but because we "customers" have been asking for it. lmao.     As you all know, this partnership initiating this study pgc + dcnr + other usual allies have ALWAYS had the mantra;  'hunter first'. lol.
    post edited by wayne c - 2014/12/23 16:08:46


    #7
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 15:57:10 (permalink)
    S-10
    Problem= predators killing too many deer.
    Answer = reduce antlerless allocations to offset loss from predators.
     
    My fee for problem solving $400,000----I just saved the PGC one million dollars. LOL




     
    Problem is S-10; your solution is a common sense approach that has 100% success written all over it.
     
    Biologist have a severe lack of common sense; therefore, a study (5-7 years) will have to be conducted to see if a 'common sense approach' is feasible.
     
    If I may, I would like to suggest adding a second common sense approach, to that of yours, and that being to reduce the amount of biologist within the PGC.  Just think of the money that would save over a 5-7 year study.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #8
    dpms
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 16:46:31 (permalink)
    Esox_Hunter
    I know the depths of the earth must be frozen solid, but I agree with Wayne here. 



    I do as well and it saved me some typing.

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #9
    DarDys
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/23 17:13:14 (permalink)
    Wait. That is five agreements. How can that be? We must really be wrong.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #10
    Big Tuna
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/26 17:10:54 (permalink)
    We have an outdoor writer that said that yotes  don't eat deer. They have way to many other things to eat.
    #11
    rmcmillen09
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/27 10:41:47 (permalink)
    We have an outdoor writer in our region , I'm sure he has to wash his lips off regularly or even his whole head ? 
    #12
    rmcmillen09
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    Re: PREDATORS VS. DEER = 2014/12/27 10:47:35 (permalink)
    When a resident in Erie,County shot a bear that was frequently visiting his children's play area in his yard,he was given a fine for the cost to replace the animal! Do they have an ATM that when you put a check in the slot a bear comes out? 
     
    #13
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