Virginia; opposition silent after Sunday deer hunt

First Virginia Sunday Hunt for Deer in 115+ years Initiated....Towns Not Burned Down, Civilians Still Safe, Report to Work on Monday
It was astonishing this morning to watch the feed of the Facebook group "Legalize Virginia Sunday Hunting for All."  I'm not sure anyone actually killed a deer.  All I saw were pictures of tree stands, sunrises, compound bows, crossbows, and long bows.  And the word "Thanks."  Thanks primarily to the group's de facto head Matt O'Brien, but thanks to everyone who called their legislators, wrote emails, kept up to date on slanderous and untrue editorial articles ghost-written by the opposition to a free day in the woods.

What was notable, in addition to the complete lack of police or media reports of conflicts with this army of hunters across the Commonwealth, was the lack of attention paid by our staunch opposition. Several organizations  claimed to be so pointedly concerned about public safety - the safety of all Virginians, they said - that they had to spend thousands of dollars (often, based in government-funded offices like the Virginia Horse Council) warning legislators and the public of this imminent travesty - of skies blackened with arrows, dog walkers whalloped by crossbow bolts, and pedestrians (because uninvited pedestrians always need to be walking across private, posted property at 6:15am, right?) gored by expanding hunting points.

After many years and tens of thousands of dollars spent lobbying against a landowner's right to harvest game on his or her own property on Sunday, these organizations lost.  And they lost loudly, predicting, as one dullard legislator did, volleys of arrows from "powerful enough bows" zinging across property lines throughout the Commonwealth.  So with all this grave concern for other users of private property (why are other people using private property without permission while the owner and his or her family and friends are legally hunting?), surely these organizations took to the airwaves and the internet to warn the collective public about the killer arrows coming from hidden treestands throughout the Commonwealth today.  Right?  Because all of the commotion, the fake newspaper articles written by lobbyists, the complaints from "non-hunters" whose names could never be verified, and the anti-hunters in general, this commotion, it had to be real - coming from a real place of fear.   So, let's see the public warnings that these groups (the unique alliance of anti-hunters, anti-farmers, farm lobbyists, and hound lobbyists...good luck figuring that out) obviously must have been publishing to make sure the quite certain menace of private land Sunday hunting does not injure or maim any person or non-game animal:

Humane Society of Virginia (HSUS - VA) website - news page:  No update on Sunday hunting

HSUS-VA Facebook Page - Recently Deleted before Sunday hunting began

Virginia Farm Bureau website  - news page:  No update on Sunday hunting

Virginia Farm Bureau Facebook Page - No update on Sunday hunting

Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance - news page:  No update on Sunday hunting

Virginia Horse Council -news page:  No update on Sunday hunting

Virginia Horse Council Facebook page - No update on Sunday hunting

Just Say No to Sunday Hunting in Virginia Facebook page - No update on Sunday hunting

Wow.  All the publications, the phone calls, the automatically generated email messages from anti-hunters in other states....all of that combined reflected what these organizations told legislators was a very legitimate fear of public safety, not at all a war of ideas or rights for "who gets to use the woods on Sunday."

And yet, they are silent.  They are silent because they know there is no public menace.  They are silent because they know that bringing their losing issue up again will just invite those who dare to think for themselves to dig up their dire predictions of bloody horror, and compare them to the idyllic peace that was, and is still, Sunday in Virginia.

dpms........ Very well written!

I'm not against Sunday hunting in PA. nor am I for it. I'm just an old dog from 'back in the day'. Like the referee viewing a replay of a call made on the field, I need unquestionable proof to make my call.

I listen to what both sides have to say and I've worn the shoes of both sides.

As for no rebuttals being made from the opposition that remains to be seen. Most of the opponents you speak of have fought and lost greater battles and come back to win the war.

The legislators up for re-election may have "cut off their noses; to spite their face" if they voted against the wishes of the strong lobbying organizations you mention. You can bet your bottom dollar; PA. law makers will be watching the results.

Though, I'm sitting on the fence, I have to admit I haven't seen enough logical reasoning for me to call my legislators to voice my support for Sunday hunting.

Right now my concern is with the reduction of our whitetail population. Not your fault, not mine but, until the deer numbers increase substantially (2 yrs. with hunting) I do not want 'any' more days added, to aide in the genocide of the PA. Whitetail.

Again, well written and, I feel your pain.

Let the deer rebound and discuss it again if you want. When nearly all game species are declining it makes no sense to allow what would be the greatest number of hunters of any day of the week continue to decimate the game population. Many of the pushers of Sunday hunting (including those who started the lawsuit) were also pushing for more herd reduction. Sunday hunting in PA equals my property posted. More days to chase less game on less land will not lead to hunter satisfaction.

approximately 27.0% if Sunday hunting were allowed.
 
 
 DRod--This was the number given to the politicians by the firm hired to do the work for the presentation of the economic benefits of Sunday hunting to the State.
 
Actually, archery season currently accounts for approx. 32% of the total deer harvest so to carry the math out, with Sunday hunting archery could account for over 40% of the total deer kill not counting those not found. ----Ask the gun hunters what they think of that. How about it DarDys?

DarDys
While you are correct that I don't like the idea of being in the majority and getting seconds to the archers, or is it thirds to the archers and the early MZ gang, or is it fourths to the archers, the early MZ gang and the seniors, or is it fifths to the archers, the early MZ gang, the seniors, and the juniors, or is it dead last except for the traditional MZ group, it now is what it is and if I have to give up a larger percentage of the deer harvest (although a filled tag ends a hunting season no matter the day of the week) in order to basically double the number of days I can pheasant hunt, I say add the Sunday.

 
When I see non archery hunters bring up the point of gun only hunters being the majority, I like to provide some clarity to the discussion using PGC numbers.
 
We have lost close to 400,000 rifle deer hunters. Archery hunters have held their own and have risen slightly. Rifle only hunters used to comprise close to 75% of deer hunters. Currently, rifle only deer hunters only comprise 58% of all deer hunters. Rifle season still accounts for 68% of our antlered kill and it only take 2 weeks to accomplish it with three days being the most heavily hunted. Archery(42% of deer hunters) accounts for 32% of the antlered harvest and it takes 9 weeks to do it. 
 
There is a lot of talk of "balanced" harvests coming from some commissioners as the percent of the total harvest by archery rises. The fact is, as we lose rifle hunters, the balance is still heavily in favor of the rifle only hunters. 

There is a certain Yuck factor involved in killing what may be a infected deer even when assured there is little danger to humans from eating it. There is also the aversion some have to be involved in further reducing the deer herd regardless what the PGC says.

S-10
DPMS the problem is the buck harvest used to be 68% of 200,000 and now is 68% of 120,000 or so.  That leaves 55,000 or more rifle hunters wondering why they no longer harvest a buck and looking for someone to blame. It's also a big reason we are losing rifle hunters even as bow hunter numbers remain steady.

 
My point was the talk of the majority which is no where close to what it was. I agree that there are many reasons why rifle hunters have exited the seen. Less deer being one of them but there are less deer available to archery hunters as well. Participation hours for archery have been increasing while it has been decreasing for rifle. Are archers willing to increase their time in the field for success because of less deer available? 

I have certainly increased my time in the woods in order to keep my success rate where it is. Knock off another 27% of the population each year which is what Sunday hunting will do for a 2-3 year time frame and you will lose both archery and rifle participation.

Yes==that in turn will decrease the hunted population by approx the same 27% each year for a few years. As the hunted populations are decreased further each year more hunters will become discouraged and give up the sport as they have been doing for the last decade in Pa.

You are talking about adding a day most people have off. The two Saturdays have the second and third highest harvest of deer of the two week season for a reason.  Remember Alt admitting he screwed up by starting doe season on the last Sat of buck season and hunters killed 60K more bucks than he anticipated because of the extra pressure from the doe hunters pushing the deer. I wouldn't be surprised if the kill increased by more than the 27% in the beginning.
 
As far as gobbler season goes show me the numbers to prove your claim on participation VS harvest. Hell, I know several folks including myself that have killed gobblers in the afternoon.

The PGC for mine, although I may have mis-remembered that one as the saying goes. It may be 1st day, second day, first Sat, second Sat. The point being, harvest is directly related to number of hunters in the woods.
 
 
words to that effect are also found on page 50 of the draft deer plan.
 
Also in PGC press release 27=-002, they increased allocations to remove 100,000  doe to make room for the extra bucks AR was supposed to save.
 
  In press release 032-06 Quote: demonstrates the strong relationship between antlerless license allocations and harvest.

S-10
You are talking about adding a day most people have off. The two Saturdays have the second and third highest harvest of deer of the two week season for a reason.  Remember Alt admitting he screwed up by starting doe season on the last Sat of buck season and hunters killed 60K more bucks than he anticipated because of the extra pressure from the doe hunters pushing the deer. I wouldn't be surprised if the kill increased by more than the 27% in the beginning. 

No doubt harvest will go up but I don't think because participation may increase 27%, according to a report, harvest will increase 27%. It is all speculation on both ends I guess.

But, in the end, my support is primarily centered around other points, unrelated to hunting deer.

DarDys
The majority may no longer be what it once was, but until the number of gun hunters dips below 50%, that us still a majority. -- that is a simple math fact.

Yes, still a majority. With that said, many rifle only hunters are very unaware of how many they have lost from their ranks and how slim of a majority they still hold. Not saying you are in the group.

DarDys
You are correct, but slim schmim, Presidential elections are won with less than that majority. Spin all you want, but 50.1% us a majority.

No spinning here as I have said several times rifle only hunters still hold a majority. The point I am making is many rifle only hunters have no idea how slim a majority it is when discussing deer harvests and opportunities among various user groups.

There is a big misconception that the little group of archers is killing a disproportionate number of deer and leaving few for the great masses of rifle hunters. That is simply not the reality these days.

S-10
The PGC claimed 700,000 deer hunters when they were trying to convince us the kill percentage was the same as before HR.  When they were trying to get Sunday hunting passed they claimed they had 840,000 deer hunters. I guess you use whatever number gives you the answer you need.

I was not aware that they used the 840,000 number recently in regards to deer hunters. I have heard 700,000 and 750,000 before and base my numbers off of the 750,000.