'10 Doe Tags...

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Ironhed
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2010/07/07 20:18:19 (permalink)

'10 Doe Tags...

Don't forget, county treasurers start accepting resident apps. this coming Monday.

Mow the does!

Ironhed
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    wayne c
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/07 21:04:06 (permalink)
    Mow the does!


    Sounds like a sticker you might see on Screffler or Isabellas bumper.
    #2
    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/08 07:45:17 (permalink)
    Mow the does, then wonder where the bucks are.
    #3
    doubletaper
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/08 10:03:44 (permalink)
    i wonder if dr. trout will tell us what rock to sit on so we can all get a doe by 10:00am first day?

    http://streamsidetales.bl...015/05/helles-yea.html
    it's not luck
    if success is consistent 





    #4
    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/08 10:11:35 (permalink)
    It's easy to find-- it's the closest rock to the stump with the pile of corn on 11 months of the year. His pet Susie Q should be ready to shoot this fall.
    #5
    Ironhed
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/08 22:27:35 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Mow the does, then wonder where the bucks are.


    In the same sense, we got over 150 trail cam pics the last 2 days and only 6 of them were bucks. 
    You can bet your **** we're gonna mow the does!

    Ironhed
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    mr.crappie
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/08 22:37:59 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Ironhed

    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Mow the does, then wonder where the bucks are.


    In the same sense, we got over 150 trail cam pics the last 2 days and only 6 of them were bucks. 
    You can bet your **** we're gonna mow the does!

    Ironhed
    And just how is that going to get you more picts. of bucks? sam

    #7
    Ironhed
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/08 22:41:14 (permalink)
    Are you serious?

    Ironhed
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    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 07:40:12 (permalink)
    150 deer pics with only 6 bucks
    Slightly over half of the fawns born are bucks in any given year
    From previous posts you hunt areas with good feed plus food plots so the area should support many deer
    Sounds more like a problem with losing too many fawns of which half are bucks rather than too many doe
    Either that or the bucks all found a place to hideand aren't moving as the old doctor always claimed
    For what it's worth, so far in the area around my house I've seen 4 doe, 3 fawns, and 4 buck, none of which are legal,
    #9
    DarDys
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 10:26:54 (permalink)
    Around my house I have been seeing a few deer, but zero fawns.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #10
    wayne c
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 10:34:13 (permalink)
    Ironhead, seeing as i doubt your buck doe ratio...or even antlered buck to antlerless deer ratio is 25 to 1, Im guessin' it was simply a matter of alot of the same doe and fawns were spending a bit more time in front of the camera than the bucks.

    I see nothing wrong with controlling the doe numbers where needed. Though if you had been "mowing the does", your land would more resemble the conditions over most of the rest of the state, and odds are you wouldnt have been getting 150 pics in 2 days. Just sayin'.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/07/09 10:36:44
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    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 10:56:03 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: wayne c

    I see nothing wrong with controlling the doe numbers where needed. Though if you had been "mowing the does", your land would more resemble the conditions over most of the rest of the state, and odds are you wouldnt have been getting 150 pics in 2 days. Just sayin'.


    I don't think so. People have been dropping as many does as they possibly can in our area( I hunt the same general area as Ironhed) for over 10 years now. We have always had longer seasons and practically unlimited tags here being that we are in a SRA. I hunt private land, but most of the places are littered with guys and I still have no trouble getting 80+ pics a day on the trail cams. Just sayin'....
    #12
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 11:19:31 (permalink)
    Here's Susy Q and her fawn .... taken this morning (Friday)

    DR. TROUT'S OUTDOORWORLD MESSAGE BOARD


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    mr.crappie
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 11:25:22 (permalink)
    Yes I am serious,please tell me how shooting more does = seeing more bucks. Also if you are serious about wanting more does shot ,maybe a little (spot burning} would be helpful. lol sam
    ORIGINAL: Ironhed

    Are you serious?

    Ironhed


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    wayne c
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 12:11:33 (permalink)
    Esox, I dont believe the does get "mowed" on restricted access posted lands in sras where 80-100 pics per day are being had.., like they do get mowed (unfortunately excesssively mowed) on open to anyone private and public lands elsewhere in most non-sra units.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/07/09 12:13:21
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    Esox_Hunter
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 13:58:25 (permalink)
    If you saw the amounts of does that get shot off of some of the local farms in the areas every year then you would see my position. A small group of guys I know have been taking 10+++ does from a 100 acre restricted property every year for as long as I remember. It doesn't seem to be hurting them too much. The smaller properties we have down here and their proximity to houses make it all but impossible to wipe out the deer.

    However, I do see your point when I look at some of the larger private, non-posted areas I hunt in 2B. There are more hunters than ever in these areas and it is pretty evident they have "thinned" the herd out, but not to a point anywhere like some of the northern counties.

    I am just hoping for the return of the whitetail to the "camp" areas to get all these people outta my areas. I shared the woods with about 20 people on first day of gun.....on 120 acres. Never saw more than 2-3 guys until about 4 years ago and I would maybe cross paths with 1 other archery hunter throughout the season.

    #16
    DanesDad
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 20:35:43 (permalink)
    Mow the does. I'm gonna get that bumper sticker.
    #17
    dpms
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 21:35:15 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: mr.crappie

    Yes I am serious,please tell me how shooting more does = seeing more bucks.


     
    There is some research from QDMA that does show that a yearling buck may be less likely to disperse during spring dispersal if it's mother was harvested during the previous fall.
     
    Also, if a piece of habitat can support X number of deer, a hunter can increase a B/D ratio through selective harvest.  There will always be new yearling bucks entering the property that have dispersed from other areas plus if antlered harvest is limited, the percentage of bucks will increase despite a heavy doe harvest.

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #18
    wayne c
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 22:01:37 (permalink)
    There is also research from pgc that counters the qdma findings. And Rosenberry has stated most yearling bucks do indeed disperse, here in Pa. Though there are a lot fewer existing to disperse anyway.

    Also with your improving buck doe ratio theory, id agree to a point. But that doesnt apply when most surrounding areas have been reduced greatly and are below cc. Though not sure how that applies to sras, speaking in general.

    Slaughtering the doe doesnt in any way equate to more bucks. It equals fewer. Hence our current decades low buck harvests.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/07/09 22:07:13
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    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 22:09:05 (permalink)
    While the percentage of bucks in the herd will increase, the actual total number of bucks will decrease, as we have seen in the years since AR/HR was implemented. On large areas of private ground where the deer numbers and hunters can be tightly controlled you can manuiplate the ratio to increase the total number of bucks in the herd but those areas are few and far between in Penna and none are on public land.
    #20
    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 22:12:38 (permalink)
    As a side note, yesterday I saw a doe with both of last years fawns which now are a spike and tiny four point. Must be she didn't get pregnent last year and let the bucks stay with her so far this year.
    #21
    wayne c
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 22:13:52 (permalink)
    the percentage of bucks will increase


    From a hunter satisfaction stance, PERCENTAGE in this instance is 100% meaningless. Would you be happier to see 2 deer all season and 1 be a buck...

    Or 25 with 8 being bucks?? Percentage in the first scenario is MUCH higher... But honestly... who the hell would care? lol.

    D]
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/07/09 22:22:27
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    wayne c
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 22:36:43 (permalink)
    Info on Pa yearling buck dispersal:

    "Hunters interested in how and why yearling bucks disperse should be intrigued by the findings of a collaborative research project on white-tailed deer conducted by Penn State, the Pennsylvania Game Commission and the U.S. Geological Survey.

    "You hear a lot of talk among hunters and landowners about trying to retain or protect deer with superior genes on their properties," said Duane Diefenbach, adjunct associate professor of wildlife ecology and leader of the Pennsylvania Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit, housed in Penn State's School of Forest Resources. "The truth is that it appears yearling males are going to disperse no matter what -- on average 70 percent of them will disperse three to six miles.
     "The effects of Pennsylvania's antler restrictions, increased harvest of does and added attention to quality deer management by landowners and deer-hunting enthusiasts have not affected overall dispersal -- just the timing of it," Diefenbach added. "This latest research has discovered why this is so."

    Dispersal link
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/07/09 22:38:53
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    mr.crappie
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/09 23:38:13 (permalink)
    My point is, more does=more fawns, of which approx. 50% are bucks.So I believe that killing more doe is sort of like killing the golden goose.I do agree that some areas need thinned out ,but they are usualy inaccessable to hunters. Also according to the P.G.C.'s own estimates,25-50% of the antlerless kill are either Button Bucks or Bucks that have lost thier antlers,so again, less Bucks for next year.As far as dispersal goes, I don't see how it affects anything, because while a buck leaves 1 area, another Bucks prob. enters the same area.That explains why you suddenly see strange Bucks in an area. sam
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    deerfly
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/10 08:27:16 (permalink)
    Here is what the WCO from Elk Co. had to say about the subject on another MB.
    The first thing hunters really need to figure out is why they are seeing fewer deer in their hunting area. In short hunter harvests are far from the only factor that influences deer numbers and the failure to understand that can result in fewer deer because hunters are not harvesting enough deer the same as if they are harvesting to many deer.

    In some cases the habitat is so poor few deer can live there. When that is the case shooting fewer does isn’t going to help and might in fact actually make it worse. Then there are areas of public land with pretty good habitat but so much hunting pressure the deer get pressured off of the public land onto under hunted posted land. Hunters harvesting fewer deer there isn’t going to help anything either and might instead actually result in fewer deer in the long-term future for that area.

    There are also places where the habitat and especially the escape cover is so think hunters can’t get to see deer even when there are lot so of them there. Harvesting fewer deer in those areas isn’t needed or beneficial for the long-term health of the habitat.

    There are also hunters that want to sit and watch open areas where there is no hunting pressure to more the deer out of the think areas where deer spend their days. Not shooting a deer when you see one in those areas isn’t going to do anything to improve your future deer sightings.

    If you are confident your area has been over harvested and also has the habitat to support more deer for the long-term future you might be able to increase the short term deer numbers by harvesting fewer, but even that isn’t a guarantee unless all of the influencing environmental conditions are also favorable toward supporting more deer.

    ****Bodenhorn


    In his view the hunters are always at fault, even though the hunters did what the PGC wanted them to do.
    #25
    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/10 08:56:52 (permalink)
    Over the years he has said so many things that have been proven wrong or misleading that I tend to ignore his posts. He changes his claims on a regular basis and ALWAYS blames the hunters even though (as deerfly states)the hunters are doing just as the PGC wanted. He apparently has been chosen as the PGC's spin doctor for several of the outdoor sites on the net. He posts so much that he can't keep track of which claim he made on which site so sometimes he ends up arguing two sides of a issue in the same month. It's sometimes fun to debate him as long as you double check everything he says before accepting any of it as truth. My experience has been you can always count on whatever is wrong being the fault of the ignorant, uninformed,or greedy hunter when dealing with him and never admits the agency may have made a mistake.
    #26
    bingsbaits
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/10 09:46:12 (permalink)
    Him and Dr' Trout go to the same school ????

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


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    deerfly
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/10 16:28:11 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: S-10

    Over the years he has said so many things that have been proven wrong or misleading that I tend to ignore his posts. He changes his claims on a regular basis and ALWAYS blames the hunters even though (as deerfly states)the hunters are doing just as the PGC wanted. He apparently has been chosen as the PGC's spin doctor for several of the outdoor sites on the net. He posts so much that he can't keep track of which claim he made on which site so sometimes he ends up arguing two sides of a issue in the same month. It's sometimes fun to debate him as long as you double check everything he says before accepting any of it as truth. My experience has been you can always count on whatever is wrong being the fault of the ignorant, uninformed,or greedy hunter when dealing with him and never admits the agency may have made a mistake.


    That is a very good summary of RSB's posting style , but I don't think he was chosen as the PGC's spin doctor. In fact, IMHO I think he was told to stop representing himself as the PGC, since he no longer identifies himself as a WCO. I haven't seen any recent posts by RSB on other MBs and I believe he is limiting his posts to HPA where he is protected by the mods. I know he doesn't like being challenged by anyone that has the facts to support their position.
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    S-10
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/10 18:09:40 (permalink)
    The last I knew RSB was also posting on Doc's site and Doc was protecting him there whenever he got challenged too hard by anyone. You don't want to question the PGC much if you go on that site. His place, PGC's spin, and he will tell you so.
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    deerfly
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    RE: '10 Doe Tags... 2010/07/10 18:45:10 (permalink)
    Doc banned me a long time ago for challenging RSB and the PGCs plan on his MB. The only PGC supporter I know that will engage in a rational debate is DougE, but even he rejects the PGC data when it doesn't support his agenda.
    #30
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