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High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 12:36:31 PM   
gonefishin

 

Posts: 463
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline 		The NY Times normally doesn't offer much in the way of quality information, but this writer composed something worthwhile.   While many countries are reducing tax burdens, the Brits maintain high tax rates.   Now their corporations are moving out.  This exodus will hit the US soon if we don't develop a major reformation of tax policy in the near future. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/business/worldbusiness/05tax.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=business&adxnnlx=1220630833-tS15bHd9XcKVViW8rgPspw
Post #: 1
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 1:38:45 PM   
LDD

 

Posts: 1001
Joined: 5/20/2004
Status: online 		 It's already happening.   
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26546938/


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Post #: 2
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 1:49:52 PM   
mikeg


Posts: 3107
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Erie, PA
Status: online 		Add 5,000 lost jobs with GMAC. Mostly in their mortage business!
They have started their layoffs and will continue through next month.

_____________________________

"If money's not loosened, this sucker could go down,"

-George W. Bush 2008

I guess we're the real "suckers"!

(in reply to LDD)
Post #: 3
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 2:32:03 PM   
saltflyfisher

 

Posts: 1045
Joined: 8/14/2003
Status: online 		Not sure where you've been recently, but the jobs have been exiting for yrs now.

(in reply to mikeg)
Post #: 4
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 3:11:39 PM   
doubletaper


Posts: 1022
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline 		holy chit, rush and the republican are right??? they've been saying this for years. over tax the businesses and they'll go else where
obama is going to tax the corp. and big companies. oh nooooooooo.

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent

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Post #: 5
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 4:02:56 PM   
Inukshuk


Posts: 1376
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline 		US companies have been shipping out for over five years now, even with all of Bush's tax incentives.  So I guess who gets taxed and how much really doesnt matter.  Dirt cheap wages are what matters. 

(in reply to doubletaper)
Post #: 6
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 4:08:45 PM   
dano


Posts: 2324
Joined: 9/21/2000
Status: offline 		Corporate taxes have little to do with the big exodus out of the country.
Moving overseas is just too attractive for businesses.  
Companies can pay out third world wages and don’t have to pay out for employee benefits.  No OSHA, unions or environmental regulations to deal with.
And they don’t have to pay import tax when they ship the product back to the U.S.
8 years of Republican leadership couldn’t stop it or just didn’t care to stop it. Either/or.
They’re pro business so why should they?

_____________________________

Gone Fishing.

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Post #: 7
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 4:10:16 PM   
doubletaper


Posts: 1022
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Inukshuk

US companies have been shipping out for over five years now, even with all of Bush's tax incentives.  So I guess who gets taxed and how much really doesnt matter.  Dirt cheap wages are what matters. 


i can't disagree with you there either. i think both are a factor.

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent

(in reply to Inukshuk)
Post #: 8
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 6:41:30 PM   
tippy-toe


Posts: 4336
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: under a rock
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Inukshuk

US companies have been shipping out for over five years now, even with all of Bush's tax incentives.  So I guess who gets taxed and how much really doesnt matter.  Dirt cheap wages are what matters. 


There is no doubt that dirt cheap wages are a factor, but taxing companies more will only drive more out. States give tax incentive to bring businesses in...the idea of lowering corporate taxes to create jobs is not new, and its not what Obama will do...the choice is becoming clearer...

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I have the right to remain silent.....I just don't have the ability

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Post #: 9
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 7:29:42 PM   
Liverache

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 8/16/2006
Status: offline 		I am not that savvy on taxes but i gotta ask, If we dont raise taxes how do we pay down this huge deficit, and which is worse being that far in debt or having the big business leave?

(in reply to gonefishin)
Post #: 10
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:06:56 PM   
LDD

 

Posts: 1001
Joined: 5/20/2004
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: tippy-toe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inukshuk

US companies have been shipping out for over five years now, even with all of Bush's tax incentives.  So I guess who gets taxed and how much really doesnt matter.  Dirt cheap wages are what matters. 


There is no doubt that dirt cheap wages are a factor, but taxing companies more will only drive more out. States give tax incentive to bring businesses in...the idea of lowering corporate taxes to create jobs is not new, and its not what Obama will do...the choice is becoming clearer...


Absolutely, dirt cheap labor, no bennies, lower taxes...these large corporations care nothing for the well being of this country.  They care about the bottom line.  The free market system is the one that works best, but quite frankly, this is one of its downsides.  People, as in the CEO's of these large companies, lose their patriotism real quick when it comes to the bottom line.  How do we fund this military that is the envy of the world  and the keystone to our power and ability to protect ourselves without taxation??? Answer me that. We can't have our cake and eat it too.  There must be actual sacrafice somewhere besides the half a million military men and women who do all our dirty work for us.  We all have to give a little bit, even the ALMIGHTY CORPORATIONS!!!!!!!!

(in reply to tippy-toe)
Post #: 11
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:15:56 PM   
indsguiz


Posts: 2015
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Liverache,
    The best way to lower a deficit is to have PEOPLE working in productive jobs.  The way to have jobs is to have business.  If business isn't there you wind up with millionaires who control businesses located out of country, and the rest of the people in the service industry working for them  "You want fries with that?" 
    Also deficits can be reduced by reducing government spending by eliminating wasteful and redundant government projects.  I was reading in a magazine, I think business weekly, that said one federal program wastes more money than if they just gave each person they were trying to help 15.000 per year.  Now this # was arrived at by taking all the salaries of the federal workers charged with implementing the program and all the personnel that were hired by companies to make sure they were in compliance and the rent for the federal buildings and the overhead costs of running the buildings  (elect, heat etc.).  We are over complying ourselves to death. 
     I heard that the Workers comp Program spends more fighting a case than it does paying a case off, and so does Social Security.  Yet these same agencies keep crying poor.
    Case in point if you have an agency paying 100 workers an average of 35,ooo/yr that's  $3,500,000. Add in the cost of a building to house those workers and you have another 1,000,000 in initial cost and then add about 100,000 in maintenance costs and you have a total of $4,600,000. or enough to keep about 3,400  average social security receipients in pay for a year.  Now multiply this by the number of redundant federal and state agencies.  When you start throwing around Billions of dollars.

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Post #: 12
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:21:48 PM   
Grendel


Posts: 2403
Joined: 10/30/2001
From: Incommunicado
Status: offline 		I agree with all of you who come from the perspective that this all flat-out sucks.  However, Capitalism IS the American way.  Maximizing profits while minimizing costs has been, and always will be the bottom line.  Ask any small-time or big time owner.  We tend to throw around the term "Democracy" to describe the American way, but this is so misleading.  Multi-national corporations rule the day.

I liken this whole thing to the Exlusionary Rule.  We all love it when we believe we are protected against governmental intrusion, but are quick to loathe it when an "obviously" guilty person goes free when the government makes a mistake (constitutional).

I am thinking of those Kwik-Fill commercials - you know...the ones whereby they try to get you to buy thier gas becasue it is made from 100% American Crude oil (or something like that)?  Ok, I drive by Kwik-Fill and see they wan $4.00 a gallon whereas Sheetz wants $3.89.  Guess who will get the business?

Doc

< Message edited by Grendel -- 9/5/2008 8:34:18 PM >

_____________________________

Science like nature
Must also be tamed
With a view towards its preservation
Given the same state of integrity
It will surely serve us well ~ NP

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Post #: 13
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:29:37 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1989
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		Add to that how overgoverned and overrepresented in government (especially state government) we are, and you got tens of millions more that could be saved.  This state could operate exactly the same, or better, with 50% of the legislators we have.  And what about all the old boy jobs that only people connected to a legislator can get (Turnpike commission, PENNDOT-to name the very tip of the iceberg)?  Eliminate the half of those that are dead weight, and open the other half the the most qualified, rather than the most connected people, and millions more could be saved.

(in reply to indsguiz)
Post #: 14
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:34:42 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1989
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		In the corporate world, it's a race to the bottom as far as labor costs are concerned.  Benefits continue to erode in quality, while increasing in out of pocket expense to employees and wages are stagnant.  And what company wouldn't leave to Mexico, here the overall cost of ONE worker in this country can buy you SEVEN there (plus no regulation of pollution, OSHA, and other things)?  It's a sad state of affairs and one I dont think either candidate can change.

(in reply to DanesDad)
Post #: 15
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:39:16 PM   
pappy69


Posts: 356
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: online 		Well, lets face it the Republicans have been in control most of the last half century, and the average person is in jeapordy of losing the American Dream, while the wealthiest have riches beyond most of our understanding. Many workers loose sight of the fact that the labor unions and Democrats have their best interest in mind, because they keep believing the line that if the rich and business owners can succeed the profits will trickle down. This is pure tripe! The wealthy will not share unless compelled to. Trickle down just does not work. We are a society that depends upon invention and enterprise that should, and once did, give credit to the people who help produce the goods, but don't depend upon good will to make fair profit for the laborer.



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Pappy

(in reply to Grendel)
Post #: 16
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 8:53:44 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1989
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		Hard to argue that, tho I doubt dems and unions have my best interests at heart either.

(in reply to pappy69)
Post #: 17
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 9:53:06 PM   
indsguiz


Posts: 2015
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		Just my take but it seems that the dems want to provide everything and control the recieveing of them and make us all comply with the rules they write supported by the people they hire.  The republicans want us to work for very little and get as little as posible to keep making money for a few.  Since the American Dream is to someday reach the point of being one of the few, I'll take the republican view.

_____________________________

Illigetimi None Carburundrum

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Post #: 18
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/5/2008 10:36:21 PM   
Inukshuk


Posts: 1376
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tippy-toe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Inukshuk

US companies have been shipping out for over five years now, even with all of Bush's tax incentives.  So I guess who gets taxed and how much really doesnt matter.  Dirt cheap wages are what matters. 


There is no doubt that dirt cheap wages are a factor, but taxing companies more will only drive more out. States give tax incentive to bring businesses in...the idea of lowering corporate taxes to create jobs is not new, and its not what Obama will do...the choice is becoming clearer...


Dirt cheap wages are THE factor!  It seems as it doesnt matter if you tax them or not, they are competing for the lower wages, which means they will ship jobs to India and China.  Even large accounting firms are shipping American tax return forms to be completed in India because it costs a lot less.   The global economy is here, and if Americans are going to survive, American companies and politicians are going to have to find a creative way to keep jobs in the US.  I mentioned on another thread about a company called JetBlue, who started "home sourcing" some of their clerical work to retired and stay at home moms.  Not a bad idea, saves the company some money and keeps jobs at home. 

(in reply to tippy-toe)
Post #: 19
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 4:30:41 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5831
Status: offline 		Funny how 22.7 million jobs were created under Clinton, who RAISED taxes. Yet only 5.8 million as of 2007 under Bush, who CUT taxes, and there has been job LOSS the past 7 months.

Doesn't exactly support your theory.

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Step Up, or Step Aside

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GL&TC

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Post #: 20
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 4:36:32 PM   
tippy-toe


Posts: 4336
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: under a rock
Status: online 		As I said the choice is becoming clearer...I'm voting for Obama, so I can complain about the liberals for the next 4 years when nothing changes.

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I have the right to remain silent.....I just don't have the ability

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Post #: 21
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 5:19:09 PM   
Inukshuk


Posts: 1376
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

Funny how 22.7 million jobs were created under Clinton, who RAISED taxes. Yet only 5.8 million as of 2007 under Bush, who CUT taxes, and there has been job LOSS the past 7 months.

Doesn't exactly support your theory.


Spoon, if this was in response to me, my theory is the same as yours. 

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 22
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 5:25:43 PM   
tippy-toe


Posts: 4336
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: under a rock
Status: online 		I don't think he meant you Inuk. You hippies tend to stick together

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I have the right to remain silent.....I just don't have the ability

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Post #: 23
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 5:27:42 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5831
Status: offline 		No, it was to the premise of the thread. You hear that "you can't raise taxes in a bad economy", but Roosevelt taxed us out of a DEPRESSION. All depends on where the taxes are targeted, and how the revenues are spent.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 24
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 5:28:17 PM   
Over the Hill


Posts: 515
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		Can someone explain to me how I am going to prosprer with LESS money in my pocket at the end of the week?

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OVER THE HILL

Some people are like slinky's; not really good for anything, but, they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

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Post #: 25
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 5:32:19 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5831
Status: offline 		YOU will probabley have more money at the end of the week. Unless Mcain gets in, and you have to pay taxes on your health care bennys. Or lose your job due to his plan to EXTEND free trade.

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 26
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 5:44:14 PM   
tippy-toe


Posts: 4336
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: under a rock
Status: online 		Not being a wise a$$, I really want to know...

If I make $1650 every two weeks and bring home $1000 every two weeks now, when I pay more taxes I will bring home less. So how do I have more $ in my pocket?????
The only way would be if the cost of goods went down and my $1000 was worth $1200...is that what will happen with more taxes???

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Post #: 27
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 6:22:00 PM   
doubletaper


Posts: 1022
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline 		he said probably........

< Message edited by doubletaper -- 9/6/2008 6:23:29 PM >

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent

(in reply to tippy-toe)
Post #: 28
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 6:54:03 PM   
pappy69


Posts: 356
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: online 		tippy-toe, so you get a response to your reasonable question. Back in the day, when my parents were trying to pull our family out of a depression, the taxes that were paid went to WPA, CCC, and other programs that got people back to work, earning wages, and becoming part of the tax pool. Meanwhile, wages and benefits increased. So, my parents worked hard and did better, as did most of the laboring class, supported by unions. In Pennsylvania, workers in the steel and coal industries started earning a decent living, just as they did in Indiana where I come from. Today, the same type of programs that involve hard working people in the process will work again. One thing that always amazes me is listening to people who condemn Social Security who wouldn't give up their monthly check if wild horses were pulling on their arms; in fact, many of them are surviving because of it.

_____________________________

Pappy

(in reply to doubletaper)
Post #: 29
RE: High Taxes = Goodbye Jobs - 9/6/2008 9:19:12 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5831
Status: offline 		Tippy,

Pappy hit on part of it. But mostly because under Obama's plan, if your making $1600 every two weeks, you'll see a tax CUT, not increase.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to pappy69)
Post #: 30
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