Gas drilling water use & abuse

Gas drilling water use & abuse

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Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/29/2009 8:56:51 PM

GreenMan

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/29/2009
Status: offline

Marcellus Shale gas wells are hungry for water, see what these drilling companies have recently been DEP-approved for at CROSS CREEK LAKE in Washington County.... Withdrawals of 800,000 gallons of water PER DAY thru the summer of 2014. Photos of low water levels already, after just four months:
http://www.marcellus-shale.us/Cross-Creek-Park-Gas-Wells.htm

Once the flowback water comes back out of these drilled wells, drilling companies like to dump it into our waterways. The high chloride levels and other contaminants create the exact same high-TDS (total dissolved solids) situation that created the golden algae bloom in Dunkard Creek that killed over 10,000 fish. Photos and more information here:
http://www.marcellus-shale.us/Dunkard_Creek.htm

Green Man

Post #: 1

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 5:32:30 AM

ddubs3

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/12/2009
Status: offline

The low water levels right now wouldnt have anything to do with winter drawdown or the drought-like conditions we've had up until the past week.....

Check the water levels on some other lakes and you'll see they were all low up until the past week when we actually got some rain. Must be the evil gas companies taking water from every lake.

(in reply to GreenMan)

Post #: 2

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 6:55:19 AM

clay516

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ddubs3

The low water levels right now wouldnt have anything to do with winter drawdown or the drought-like conditions we've had up until the past week.....

Check the water levels on some other lakes and you'll see they were all low up until the past week when we actually got some rain. Must be the evil gas companies taking water from every lake.

10,000 FISH DEAD Aint from drought

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 3

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 9:42:30 AM

yough guide

Posts: 23
Joined: 3/21/2009
Status: offline

xxxxxxx

< Message edited by yough guide -- 10/6/2009 9:13:20 PM >

(in reply to clay516)

Post #: 4

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 2:00:18 PM

IrishRed

Posts: 75
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: clay516

quote:

ORIGINAL: ddubs3

The low water levels right now wouldnt have anything to do with winter drawdown or the drought-like conditions we've had up until the past week.....

Check the water levels on some other lakes and you'll see they were all low up until the past week when we actually got some rain. Must be the evil gas companies taking water from every lake.

10,000 FISH DEAD Aint from drought

He said the water is low from drought-like conditions, he said nothing about it killing the fish.

(in reply to clay516)

Post #: 5

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 2:58:27 PM

Subby

Posts: 133
Joined: 2/14/2006
From: Belle Vernon, PA
Status: offline

The Dunkard Creek incident is a disgrace. I guess paying for the naming rights to various sporting venues buys a lot of consideration. It's bad enough that we have to put up with AMD creeks and slate dumps from our mineral heritage, but for an "accident"/incident like this to happen in modern times is just ridiculous.

Sub

(in reply to IrishRed)

Post #: 6

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 3:54:11 PM

jiggerman41

Posts: 57
Joined: 7/17/2009
Status: offline

when it comes to money and the enviroment the enviroment will lose every time.people need to do thier homework before agreeing to all the drilling going on around here.

(in reply to Subby)

Post #: 7

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 4:05:30 PM

clay516

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/10/2009
Status: offline

Sounded like he was sticking up for the gas companies! And they killed the fish.

< Message edited by clay516 -- 9/30/2009 4:09:29 PM >

(in reply to IrishRed)

Post #: 8

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 9/30/2009 5:08:09 PM

fryem

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

He was sticking up for them ddubs3 does so with out fail. I am glad I was able to pass this website onto Greenman now more people can see what I have said for the last couple of years here is a couple of more sites

www.splitestate.com
www.damascuscitizens.org
http://www.donnan.com/Marcellus-Gas_Hickory.htm

The main problem I have with the gas companies is the non-caring irresponsible actions that cause the environmental messes that you are just starting to find out about. The second thing is the lies that these gas companies/ drillers etc tell through the land companies that represent them to the land owners. The land man tries to make your eyes turn $green$ (I know I listened to 4 offers from different companies in the past two years) without telling the whole truth about the lease just check out the law suits by looking through the post provided by Greenman
Also I was glad to see a couple port a johns at the drilling sites in green mans pictures usally these disrespectfull "gasmen" and companies are to cheap to rent a port a John for the drilling crews otherwise they are ****ting and throwing toilet paper allover the place happened to my neighbor and a good friend in Hickory Pa. Just another act of disrespect or maybe that is just common place in Texas and Oklahoma. Also I didnt even mention all the other junk and garbage they leave behind.
oh yea and here is a quote from neighbor when asked how the gas drilling was going "what a ****ing mess"

(in reply to clay516)

Post #: 9

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/1/2009 6:40:59 PM

fryem

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

No replies to my post?... ddubs3 mister gas... I welcome your intelligent and informed response since you defend in your words the “evil” gas companies It would be nice for all to see a intelligent response with a bit of revelence to the info provided by greenman. If the readers of this form drink water out of the Mon and I would have to guess the Ohio, both consumers are subject to ingesting Fracing water chemicals legally or illegally dumped or processed through the existing plants that normally treat ****,**** toilet paper and other regulated chemicals, degergents etc that dump into the Mon or Ohio river watershed find out what makes it through the treatment system and what is checked for that or what have made it through your long term health is in question. (Question ? ddubs3 you still drink the water and the water untreated by current processes that kills wildlife tell me when it was you last time you had your drinking water supply tested for the 200+ possible fracing fuild chemicals? You should know the list of chemicals that maybe possibly added inform us all. )
Bottom line is Don’t be stupid people!
Take note: all of drunkard creek is dead to the mouth. We all know by looking at fracing water chemicals lists from various on line sites and looking at Water Company published documentation for processing certain chemicals they cant deal with it.
This state has allowed dumping of frac water into unmonitored sites which has promoted / allowed (remember the only thing that counts is profit, **** the residents and the world they live in) the irresponsibile dumping /disposal of toxic waste by the gas companies these chemicals from dunkard creek /blacksville mine # 1 dump site end up in the water you drink the **** it that doesn’t get removed is only diliuted
I would ask my local water authority where does my drinking water come from and how you treat and deal with the "puke water" from wells... yes you might not keel over and die tomorrow but I don’t want to drink toxins because the DEP says it safe?
The DEP guy out checking and getting field samples has a different story amazingly so.
All so consider that he Mon water is still questionably useful to the steel and power generation companies. Case in point, although I have heard that the steel industry (US Steel) is complaining about the water quality in the Mon What does that tell you, imageine that the steel producers complaining about water quality.

I’m just sick of this the last 2 years…get involved if you care about the section of world you live in. Can anybody on here say Love Canal..?Because that is what is brewing in western pa… thanks to the rush to get cheap gas.

(in reply to fryem)

Post #: 10

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/1/2009 7:18:34 PM

ddubs3

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/12/2009
Status: offline

So let me get this straight.....

The DEP, EPA, and numerous other agencies are monitoring the Marcellus Shale play very closely enforcing strict regulations and levying large fines when accidents happen. Despite this fact, the "experts" here in this forum think that the drilling/production will be the end of the world as we know it here in Western PA because of all the pollution that will happen.

Anyone hear about the operator in NE PA who had some chemical spills on a wellsite and DEP shut them down for the near future? I guess that operator doesn't have enough money to buy themselves out of a jam!

The same people who complain about high gas prices and high unemployment rates are the same people complaining about the Marcellus Shale play, despite the fact that it is helping both those causes. Doesn't make much sense to me.

(in reply to fryem)

Post #: 11

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/1/2009 8:09:49 PM

cappoletti

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/10/2004
Status: offline

There must be accountability before anything changes. Starts with the regulatory guys and works down to all of us.

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 12

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/1/2009 8:31:22 PM

kayak99

Posts: 1024
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline

I hope these new "green men" aren't going to spam all the fishing sites they can google.

(in reply to cappoletti)

Post #: 13

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/1/2009 9:28:06 PM

SlipperySmitt

Posts: 167
Joined: 10/14/2008
Status: offline

I could go on, but some of you don't know what actually happens. At least at the well. What5 happens after the well, one (myself included) can only hope is what is said will be done is what id done. The discharge/leakage (water) at the well is about what happens when somone drills a water well on YOUR place. The other stuff they use is collected into the holding tank around almost all gas wells. Older wells had different regs, methods, etc.. What happens when the water is pumped from the said holding tanks..... well are they treating it as said or not? You should be more conserened (SP) about what happens to it after its used for drilling than when. AND where it goes after, it doesn't get dumped on site as it appears has been insinuated! The contracts state, the water must/had to be reclaimed. That is the point you should be making! ARE THEY OR AREN'T THEY? That part has nothing to do with drilling a well!!!

Smitty

(in reply to kayak99)

Post #: 14

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/1/2009 10:02:48 PM

Maxpower

Posts: 10
Joined: 9/29/2009
Status: offline

Im going to play Devil's advocate.... Just food for thought....We are in a GLOBAL economy... or whatever they tell us... The US has the highest safety standard for construction/mining/manufacturing... China kills 4000...thats right...4000 coal miners a year. They have no environmental controls. They have OVER 1,000,000,000 people. Thats a BILLION. They flood our makrkets with products that we buy cause they are cheap. Im a Union Ironworker....our safety standards are rediculous!!!... IM A F*CKIN IRONWORKER.... NOPE!!!! you gotta be tied off every step you take everywhere you go!! Even if it takes you 5x longer... were gonna do it "safe".... which isnt "safe" when u got 3 guys tied off to something that wouldnt hold my dog...but thats "legal" for the safety dept... ITS A F"IN GAME.... INSURANCE COMPANIES......and ATTORNEYS... sorry for the rant....I love fishin and huntin as much as anyone...but my point is... we gotta get self-sufficient from Eastern oil and energy...if we gotta kill some fish... we gotta kill some fish... if they decided they were gonna drain my fav. lake and start drillin.... i wouldnt like it particularly....but... hey....better than 4000 coal miners

(in reply to SlipperySmitt)

Post #: 15

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/2/2009 8:04:21 AM

IrishRed

Posts: 75
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kayak99

I hope these new "green men" aren't going to spam all the fishing sites they can google.

I don't think it's about being "green" kayak. It's about reality. If all of the folks who moan complain about what happens as a result of mining and drilling can come up with solutions to prevent the accidents then I'm all for it. But i'm guessing that the same people on here complaining use natural gas and other fuels on a daily basis. You can't play both sides of the game. I'm not a "green activist" but it's the world we live in today.
Regulation is the start to preventing some of these accidents or "accidents" as they may seem. But, if no one used the gas that is needed from the shale then we wouldn't be talking about this right now, right? If you use the gas you can't complain, you are in a sense promoting more drilling and forcing more "accidents".

(in reply to kayak99)

Post #: 16

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/2/2009 1:47:57 PM

fryem

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

ddubs3 since the Pa. DEP is monitoring this closely as you state please inform us how many DEP agents /reps are in the district that covers What I think is called the prime 1AAA terriorty or whatever the gas companies called the desinated prime territory where most of the biggger operations are taking place. Also define what is the prime terriotory so we can know where the nextt major fish kill will be...if you cant I can so let me know and I will post the prime area.
You say they are monitoring closely how many times does an agent visit a drilling site before during or after and how are they there? What do they look at and monitor? how many agents per sq mile? The driiling , fracing and fracing water disposal goes on 24x7 the DEP works 8 to 5 so how do they monitor it closley? Like I said it would be nice to know the Agent rate per sq mile or drilling site. also does the DEP follow the trucks with the waste water and monitor where they go? And who was watching monitoring the Blacksville mine dumpsite the DEP WV DEP federal EPA they must have been sleeping or fishing dunkard creek while fish still lived there and yes they had a permit for so many gallons per day but really tell me who checks and actully measures it if even remotely possible.

Secondly in reference to ddubs3 post I complain about the gas companies I dont use the gas and you think it helps so many people to be employed I guess all the cars and trucks you see all over washington county are personal directors from halliburton etc. running around looking for people to hire... The two well sites semi directly arcoss the road from my property I never seen a PA licence plate on any of the trucks Suv's etc except from the water haulers and the company hired to clean up the mud mess on the road.

Also to address the other persons post that this is a fishing site your right it is, and the killing of fishing and waterways is happening right now...Fish kill at cross creek 38 miles of dunkard gone. private ponds poisioned & dead get involved if you care about fishing and the water you drink. the links and sites are now posted here review all the info from Green man you can get involved.

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 17

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/2/2009 2:51:08 PM

ddubs3

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/12/2009
Status: offline

If you care so much about the environment, you figure out how many agents are covering the area. Maybe you can make donations to the DEP so they can hire more people. I believe they just hired ~50 people specifically for the Marcellus Shale.

I have had them on location a couple times and they are a major pain, so I assure you they are doing their jobs.

Most of the license plates are not PA because the companies have their headquarters in other states. The trucks are always here, they are just licensed in the home state of the company. It makes it easier since trucks often get transferred from one location to another.

If what you say is true, you'll be able to tell where the highest level of drilling is taking place because there won't be a single living thing left.

I can assure you that you will not make any impact on the drilling. The intelligent people of the state realize the positives far away the few negatives. 100,000+ jobs and lower natural gas prices are worth more than a couple dead fish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fryem

ddubs3 since the Pa. DEP is monitoring this closely as you state please inform us how many DEP agents /reps are in the district that covers What I think is called the prime 1AAA terriorty or whatever the gas companies called the desinated prime territory where most of the biggger operations are taking place. Also define what is the prime terriotory so we can know where the nextt major fish kill will be...if you cant I can so let me know and I will post the prime area.
You say they are monitoring closely how many times does an agent visit a drilling site before during or after and how are they there? What do they look at and monitor? how many agents per sq mile? The driiling , fracing and fracing water disposal goes on 24x7 the DEP works 8 to 5 so how do they monitor it closley? Like I said it would be nice to know the Agent rate per sq mile or drilling site. also does the DEP follow the trucks with the waste water and monitor where they go? And who was watching monitoring the Blacksville mine dumpsite the DEP WV DEP federal EPA they must have been sleeping or fishing dunkard creek while fish still lived there and yes they had a permit for so many gallons per day but really tell me who checks and actully measures it if even remotely possible.

Secondly in reference to ddubs3 post I complain about the gas companies I dont use the gas and you think it helps so many people to be employed I guess all the cars and trucks you see all over washington county are personal directors from halliburton etc. running around looking for people to hire... The two well sites semi directly arcoss the road from my property I never seen a PA licence plate on any of the trucks Suv's etc except from the water haulers and the company hired to clean up the mud mess on the road.

Also to address the other persons post that this is a fishing site your right it is, and the killing of fishing and waterways is happening right now...Fish kill at cross creek 38 miles of dunkard gone. private ponds poisioned & dead get involved if you care about fishing and the water you drink. the links and sites are now posted here review all the info from Green man you can get involved.

(in reply to fryem)

Post #: 18

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/2/2009 11:08:43 PM

Subby

Posts: 133
Joined: 2/14/2006
From: Belle Vernon, PA
Status: offline

Lower natural gas prices how? We're all going to end up paying to clean up the mess. Are the out-of-staters that purchase that gas going to contribute to Dunkard Creek clean up funds? Is Consol/et al going to pay to upgrade every municipal water plant downstream of the spill? Those "couple dead fish" represent clean drinking water, water that grows the food you eat, recreational water. Those "couple dead fish" represent 50 years of rebuilding the robber barons' exploits. Every orange creek you drive past, every piece of garbage on the highway is a result of your way of thinking that anything is acceptable if it makes you a buck. The whole "**** happens/I'm with stupid" routine is getting stale. With the money involved, if you as a company officer can't hire an adequate geologist/engineer/whatever, then you're either actively flaunting the law or are too stupid to be in charge of anything more complicated than velcro shoes.

Sub

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 19

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/2/2009 11:47:16 PM

kayak99

Posts: 1024
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishRed

quote:

ORIGINAL: kayak99

I hope these new "green men" aren't going to spam all the fishing sites they can google.

If all of the folks who moan complain about what happens as a result of mining and drilling can come up with solutions to prevent the accidents then I'm all for it. But i'm guessing that the same people on here complaining use natural gas and other fuels on a daily basis.

I don't think these green man posts will have any effect whatsoever but I do agree with your assessment. It's called hypocrisy.

(in reply to IrishRed)

Post #: 20

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/3/2009 7:29:54 AM

clay516

Posts: 49
Joined: 8/10/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ddubs3

If you care so much about the environment, you figure out how many agents are covering the area. Maybe you can make donations to the DEP so they can hire more people. I believe they just hired ~50 people specifically for the Marcellus Shale.

I have had them on location a couple times and they are a major pain, so I assure you they are doing their jobs.

Most of the license plates are not PA because the companies have their headquarters in other states. The trucks are always here, they are just licensed in the home state of the company. It makes it easier since trucks often get transferred from one location to another.

If what you say is true, you'll be able to tell where the highest level of drilling is taking place because there won't be a single living thing left.

I can assure you that you will not make any impact on the drilling. The intelligent people of the state realize the positives far away the few negatives. 100,000+ jobs and lower natural gas prices are worth more than a couple dead fish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fryem

ddubs3 since the Pa. DEP is monitoring this closely as you state please inform us how many DEP agents /reps are in the district that covers What I think is called the prime 1AAA terriorty or whatever the gas companies called the desinated prime territory where most of the biggger operations are taking place. Also define what is the prime terriotory so we can know where the nextt major fish kill will be...if you cant I can so let me know and I will post the prime area.
You say they are monitoring closely how many times does an agent visit a drilling site before during or after and how are they there? What do they look at and monitor? how many agents per sq mile? The driiling , fracing and fracing water disposal goes on 24x7 the DEP works 8 to 5 so how do they monitor it closley? Like I said it would be nice to know the Agent rate per sq mile or drilling site. also does the DEP follow the trucks with the waste water and monitor where they go? And who was watching monitoring the Blacksville mine dumpsite the DEP WV DEP federal EPA they must have been sleeping or fishing dunkard creek while fish still lived there and yes they had a permit for so many gallons per day but really tell me who checks and actully measures it if even remotely possible.

Secondly in reference to ddubs3 post I complain about the gas companies I dont use the gas and you think it helps so many people to be employed I guess all the cars and trucks you see all over washington county are personal directors from halliburton etc. running around looking for people to hire... The two well sites semi directly arcoss the road from my property I never seen a PA licence plate on any of the trucks Suv's etc except from the water haulers and the company hired to clean up the mud mess on the road.

Also to address the other persons post that this is a fishing site your right it is, and the killing of fishing and waterways is happening right now...Fish kill at cross creek 38 miles of dunkard gone. private ponds poisioned & dead get involved if you care about fishing and the water you drink. the links and sites are now posted here review all the info from Green man you can get involved.

You cant be serious. So what ur saying is who cares about the enviroment we also live in. It aint just fish that are getting poisioned. We need clean water to live too. Let ur kids go play in that crick and u to. That way you can understand what it would be like to live near a polluted crick.

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 21

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/3/2009 10:47:46 AM

Fishken

Posts: 62
Joined: 1/14/2009
From: freeport,pa
Status: offline

I can't understand some people..The state sets the regs. The state enforces the regs.. The states approve the permits...The state collects taxs, fines, & permit fees..& the state must be corrupt to take the payoffs from said evil gas, oil ,& coal co's. Soooo... why are we talking about the company's???Sounds to me we should be talking about the state..The uncle had 3 wells put in over the last couple of years...was there on a daily basis never saw anything i would question as unsafe...they drew h2o from our creek & ran a x-tra 200 feet of pipe because of concerns over my minnie traping hole..What did they do with said h2o???Don't know, but i bet the state does..Get off the co's & their workers, they provide us with a important resorce.Still feel like there's something wrong..call your local state rep. & complain to them, they are the ones to blame for any "MESSES".Side note the dead fish in the creek, where killed by mother nature ie. algea not BIG GAS COAL OR OIL. But if one must blame someone, start @ the state level, they gave the thumbs up!!!~!!!

(in reply to clay516)

Post #: 22

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/3/2009 4:38:13 PM

ddubs3

Posts: 61
Joined: 4/12/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: clay516

quote:

ORIGINAL: ddubs3

If you care so much about the environment, you figure out how many agents are covering the area. Maybe you can make donations to the DEP so they can hire more people. I believe they just hired ~50 people specifically for the Marcellus Shale.

I have had them on location a couple times and they are a major pain, so I assure you they are doing their jobs.

Most of the license plates are not PA because the companies have their headquarters in other states. The trucks are always here, they are just licensed in the home state of the company. It makes it easier since trucks often get transferred from one location to another.

If what you say is true, you'll be able to tell where the highest level of drilling is taking place because there won't be a single living thing left.

I can assure you that you will not make any impact on the drilling. The intelligent people of the state realize the positives far away the few negatives. 100,000+ jobs and lower natural gas prices are worth more than a couple dead fish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: fryem

ddubs3 since the Pa. DEP is monitoring this closely as you state please inform us how many DEP agents /reps are in the district that covers What I think is called the prime 1AAA terriorty or whatever the gas companies called the desinated prime territory where most of the biggger operations are taking place. Also define what is the prime terriotory so we can know where the nextt major fish kill will be...if you cant I can so let me know and I will post the prime area.
You say they are monitoring closely how many times does an agent visit a drilling site before during or after and how are they there? What do they look at and monitor? how many agents per sq mile? The driiling , fracing and fracing water disposal goes on 24x7 the DEP works 8 to 5 so how do they monitor it closley? Like I said it would be nice to know the Agent rate per sq mile or drilling site. also does the DEP follow the trucks with the waste water and monitor where they go? And who was watching monitoring the Blacksville mine dumpsite the DEP WV DEP federal EPA they must have been sleeping or fishing dunkard creek while fish still lived there and yes they had a permit for so many gallons per day but really tell me who checks and actully measures it if even remotely possible.

Secondly in reference to ddubs3 post I complain about the gas companies I dont use the gas and you think it helps so many people to be employed I guess all the cars and trucks you see all over washington county are personal directors from halliburton etc. running around looking for people to hire... The two well sites semi directly arcoss the road from my property I never seen a PA licence plate on any of the trucks Suv's etc except from the water haulers and the company hired to clean up the mud mess on the road.

Also to address the other persons post that this is a fishing site your right it is, and the killing of fishing and waterways is happening right now...Fish kill at cross creek 38 miles of dunkard gone. private ponds poisioned & dead get involved if you care about fishing and the water you drink. the links and sites are now posted here review all the info from Green man you can get involved.

You cant be serious. So what ur saying is who cares about the enviroment we also live in. It aint just fish that are getting poisioned. We need clean water to live too. Let ur kids go play in that crick and u to. That way you can understand what it would be like to live near a polluted crick.

People's drinking water getting poisoned from drilling is a total joke. If you knew how the process went, you would agree. I find it hilarious when I watched one video with some old couple saying their drinking water "smelled funny" after a well was drilling on their property. DEP came and tasted the water and found nothing wrong.

(in reply to clay516)

Post #: 23

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/4/2009 12:52:16 PM

young

Posts: 89
Joined: 9/23/2009
Status: offline

quote:

The DEP, EPA, and numerous other agencies are monitoring the Marcellus Shale play very closely enforcing strict regulations and levying large fines when accidents happen.

Are those like the "large fines" they levy against mines for safety violations?? Yeah, 1000$ is a huge sum for a multinational corporation to pay! What a joke.

The DEPs and the EPA are in the pockets of the corporations just like MSHA (which is always run by mine operators or independent mine consultants) is in the pockets of the mines.

That's why the West Virginia DEP approved mountain top removal despite all evidence (including from its own people) that it destroys ecosystems.

And that's why Lisa Jackson, the head of the EPA, is a darling of industry. According to US News, she "has made choices that have been applauded by industry." Big surprise.

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 24

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/5/2009 6:56:49 PM

fryem

Posts: 80
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline

In short time I will address your questions with facts.
But first on The DEP oil and gas division for the offices that cover the prime drilling area... 50 new agents I dont think so the state doesnt even have an approved budget...just to add a comment about that,The DEP agents that I know in the recently expaned oil and gas departments say not even close to the needed amount of field reps needed for the prime area and the complaints that come in. They agents may issue reports and recommendations and fines that must be approved by "higher ups" so to speak and once this occurs the higher ups are elected and appointed officals are now involved...So then logic dictates that you need to look at political contributions legal which we can review and the illegal which we dont know about... Think about this if elected politicans where not important to the profits and regulations that favor the gas compaines why would "gas companies from texas and wherever else they are from be making these political contributions to Pa politicans Democrat or Repblican. If it is so highly regulated and monitored Then nobody should need any favors. Why would the Major players for example Halliburton/ range resources have lobbyists federal and state? We know the logical answer to this and it is **** on the locals and the environment and long term health of the area and all problems we may create for everybody downstream and thier quality of life which means nothing compared to our profits.

And for the guy who speaks about the 3 wells drilled on his realitives property great, no first apparent problems but the problem is how much poison can you drink from ground water contaminets left from the drilling fracing and puke water from modern gas well drilling before you start having problems maybe the money is more important to them than your health

(in reply to ddubs3)

Post #: 25

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/10/2009 11:40:05 PM

fontinalis

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

Great discussion! I'm proud y'all have kept it civil. I have only this to add. You cannot trust government or Big bussiness. We all know this and if you doubt it you are in denial. I suggest we pressure our representatives to place monitoring and reporting of violations into PRIVATE hands. Independant contractors hired by state and local stakeholders as well as the companies themselves. Companies want to be compliant but gov. red tape is retarding their efforts. The DEP field agents can have eagle eyes and god like omniscience, but they have ELECTED/ APPOINTED superiors. Employees of mineral companies also have corporate bottom lines to deal with.

The facts are that Greene county would not survive without Mineral extraction in the now. I am a greenie ("tree hugger") as well and proud to be, but I would never sacrifice a families livley hood, or a producers life.....ever....
I thank the miners and the drillers for the work they do, not all of em crap in your pasture or favor dumping Chlorides in your fishin hole.

I am an environmental scientist and I work in Greene every single day. So I DO know that we ARE on the brink of catastrophe from a public and environmental health standpoint. Who do we blame?....our fat, lazy, complacent, non voting non caring trash eating, hippooocritical selves...ya me too... I drive an old beater "earth killer" truck because I love it, and my wife says its sexy...and it is...

The tradgedy at Dunkard creek is not the fault of the mine, the gas companies or Golden algae (Chrysophyta), or drought alone. All of these circumstances combined to warn us that its time to start caring and looking out for our own best interest. The regs are in place, but basically un inforceable.

"Sigh" Brothers I have sampled WV fork of Dunkard for three years..electrofishing. It was the most diverse stream in the region, and a budding Musky fishery that would have curled your hair....this sucks...what are we gonna do about it?

_____________________________

"Discretion is the better part of valor."

"Be excellent to each other"

(in reply to fryem)

Post #: 26

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/14/2009 9:38:14 AM

wetfoot

Posts: 64
Joined: 12/27/2001
From: Uniontown, Pa
Status: offline

It may be me but this all reminds me of a movie "Downunder"! We need a hero like the movie but once again it was just a movie. I hear you saying call or write my Rep and congressmen but I have about as much faith in them as I do the gas companys right now. BUT I'll give it my best shot. I'm not to smart of a person but I like to think I'm just a good hearted country boy and right now my heart tells me that a scientist working in greene co. knows more than I do. So I'm trusting that everything I've read of yours isn't from a ****ed off fisherman but a smart man that has the facts. I'm all for doing whatever I can to help out. I hope to see more posts and I really hope you send a copy of your post to your Rep.

(in reply to fontinalis)

Post #: 27

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/14/2009 8:59:37 PM

SlipperySmitt

Posts: 167
Joined: 10/14/2008
Status: offline

As one that has a stake, I ask, are there facts? "Fryem" seems so as I have heard and learned what he/she has some basis. But what about the rest? The last I knew the fish kill wasn't confirmed to a well? I know the DEP is scrambling to find inspectors and Adolf Rendell is trying to find a way to tax things. Is there anything else other than some people are making good money from this? Does anyone know what the effects will be 20+ years from now?

I only want factual answers! No Al Gore stuff! And I would appreciate, "REAL" answers.

Smitty

(in reply to wetfoot)

Post #: 28

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/14/2009 10:31:39 PM

Loomis

Posts: 1610
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Delmont, PA
Status: offline

Marcellus shale drilling protected my families business from the recession and is the boost in jobs to this immediate area we need.

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http://www.laurelridgerods.com

"I am by no means the most logical and educated person about fly fishing, but I will share with you what I know"

(in reply to SlipperySmitt)

Post #: 29

RE: Gas drilling water use & abuse - 10/15/2009 6:09:13 PM

bulldog1

Posts: 1782
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline

Gas is $4 a thousand, shouldn't even be drilling right now! Supply and demand. The supply is above the demand giving us low prices, so lets produce more so the price can go lower.... makes perfect sense. DEP wasn't prepared for this play and should have put the binders on till they got a handle on it, or they should have been prepared in the first place. Sad thing is we need the jobs right now and they are good paying jobs that will last several years. A few of the companies drilling in Western PA are actually buying their water from PA American Water, not sure how they're handling the disposal though.

(in reply to Loomis)

Post #: 30

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