Single vs Treble Hooks

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Divemaster
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2016/05/04 10:54:20 (permalink)

Single vs Treble Hooks

I was wondering what type of hook you all use for trolling on the big pond. In my case, I'm specifically wondering whether to use single or treble hooks on flutter spoons when trolling for Lake Trout, all of which I try to release as gently as possible (support under stomach and keep out of water < 1.0-1.5 minutes) after some quick pictures and measurements, but often their mouth is very bloody from the treble hook removal even with such handling. I know the pros to treble hooks are that they result in better hookups but I've also heard that they cause more pain and obviously more bleeding with two of the three hooks pulling against each other in the mouth of the fish. I also know that single hooks hold much better, are easier to remove from both the fish and net, and supposedly cause less damage and pain to the fish, but, I've also know that they result in less hookups and I've heard that they can cause deep tissue damage to the mouth and often penetrate close to the eye socket, the last thing I want to do is cause nerve damage or partial blindness to such amazing fish.

So what are all of your thoughts on this matter? When catch and release trolling for Lakers should I go with single or treble hooks on my spoons?
post edited by Divemaster - 2016/05/04 10:55:48
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    D-nymph
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 11:56:43 (permalink)
    If you are catch & release fishing, what's more important to you, the caught fish surviving or more fish landed?  Is it really even a question?
    #2
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 12:10:55 (permalink)
    D-nymph
    If you are catch & release fishing, what's more important to you, the caught fish surviving or more fish landed?  Is it really even a question?


    To me, the question is whether or not to have two hooks wiggle around and cause pain and bleeding or have one hook that has the potential to cause nerve damage and go through the eye.
    #3
    D-nymph
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 12:25:29 (permalink)
    For me, there is almost never a situation where a treble hook is a batter choice than a single hook, when catch & release fishing.
    #4
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 12:40:57 (permalink)
    Well..... I'm no expert, I couldn't catch Lake Erie fish with a trawler but it would seem, one could use smaller single hooks that won't penetrate so deeply, or flatten the barbs on two of the hooks of your trebles.  Wouldn't that make if fun, reeling in a fish, wondering if the fish got hooked with the barbed point?  All heck fish on the wild side and just flatten all the barbs, single or treble.
     
    Tight lines and good times.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #5
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 12:45:39 (permalink)
    D-nymph
    For me, there is almost never a situation where a treble hook is a batter choice than a single hook, when catch & release fishing.


    Okay, what I'll probably do this weekend is keep half of the spoons in my spread with treble hooks and put single hooks on the other half, then see which ones I like better for hookups, fish retention, hook removal, damage to fish, etc.
    #6
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 12:46:52 (permalink)
    BeenThereDoneThat.
    Well..... I'm no expert, I couldn't catch Lake Erie fish with a trawler but it would seem, one could use smaller single hooks that won't penetrate so deeply, or flatten the barbs on two of the hooks of your trebles.  Wouldn't that make if fun, reeling in a fish, wondering if the fish got hooked with the barbed point?  All heck fish on the wild side and just flatten all the barbs, single or treble. Tight lines and good times.


    That's fly fishing style right there :). Just better hope when that crazy Steelhead or Atlantic grabs your size 16 barbless single hook caddis that he doesn't start jumping towards you lol. To me, Salmonids that big don't mix well with such small hooks, flies like that are for 3-14" wild Brookies, not drag peeling acrobats.
    post edited by Divemaster - 2016/05/04 12:50:31
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    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 12:48:47 (permalink)
    Can anyone recommend a good brand and size of single hooks to try for 3.25-6.00" flutter spoons? I think a lot of people use size 1/0 to 3/0 barbed Siwash hooks for Great Lakes fish. Also, is there anything I'd need to modify or add on my spoons when replacing trebles with singles in order to make sure the action of the lure stays the same?
    #8
    outasync
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/04 15:09:24 (permalink)
    I've caught many musky with flattened treble hooks. Even the one in my avatar. Removing the hooks is alot easier and friendlier to both you and the fish... 6 inch grandma caught me in the cheek about 3 inches under my eye a few years ago. Popped right back out thank goodness because it was in up to the bend of the hook.
    #9
    eyesandgillz
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/05 13:51:57 (permalink)
    First off, fish don't feel "pain" like we do.
     
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130808123719.htm
     
    Second, if your concern is with the fish's well being (ripped lips, damaged eyes, etc.) and you will C&R use the single hooks and smash the barbs but if you give em slack, bye bye fishy.
     
    #10
    genieman77
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/05 18:13:27 (permalink)
    Forgive me...but this just slays me
     
     .....we're talking about tricking a live critter, torturing it making it fight for it's life to point of exhaustion and possible(probable?)  death for our  "enjoyment/pleasure " ....and we're concerned about a fish's pain sensory perceptions?????
     
    (think Shirley Temple)
    "oh my goo'ness"
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW3vrbKZUUQ
     
    ..L.T.A.
     
     
    #11
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/05 18:43:02 (permalink)
    genieman77
    Forgive me...but this just slays me  .....we're talking about tricking a live critter, torturing it making it fight for it's life to point of exhaustion and possible(probable?)  death for our  "enjoyment/pleasure " ....and we're concerned about a fish's pain sensory perceptions????? (think Shirley Temple) "oh my goo'ness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW3vrbKZUUQ ..L.T.A.  


    We have very different views on fishing, I see. Most of the following is just my personal ethics if you feel like reading them, if not then no skin off my bones. To me, if the fish is foolish enough that it will fall for your bait/lure, then it is on the fish for getting itself in to the dilemma of being on the end of my line. I didn't go down there, grab the fish, and jam the hook in its mouth. But rather it chose to attack the lure. Obviously fish aren't as intelligent as humans as far as distinguishing a real forage fish from a lure, but for every fish that falls for your lure, there's a dozen smart enough to recognize that it's fake, or that just plain aren't feeding. If I do hook a fish that I plan on releasing, I'll play it as quickly as possible and handle it as gently as possible. During the fight I won't take any more time than necessary to boat or land a fish and once it's netted I'll either unhook it in the net and take a quick picture out of water if I'm creek/river fishing, or if I'm boat fishing I'll very quickly unhook and measure the length and girth of the fish. If I do weigh the fish then I'll use a sling. As for taking a picture and holding fish (let's say Lake Trout for example), I'll first grab the fish by the caudal peduncle and then support the trout under the pectoral fins by its stomach with the second hand. After a couple pictures, if the fish is healthy then I'll torpedo it back in and they take off very quickly. If it's weak then we'll bring up the trolling spread, stop the boat, and I'll hold the trout in the water from the swim platform until it swims away.
    #12
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/05 18:50:45 (permalink)
    eyesandgillz
    First off, fish don't feel "pain" like we do. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130808123719.htm Second, if your concern is with the fish's well being (ripped lips, damaged eyes, etc.) and you will C&R use the single hooks and smash the barbs but if you give em slack, bye bye fishy. 


    I'm not so sure about that. Some sources say they do feel pain, some sources say they don't, and some say they just have a different feeling. We'll probably never know. But whether they do or not, I still like to treat and handle them as well and safely as possible, and any animal that can take having a metal spike driven in to its mouth and then fought for sport certainly deserves my complete and utmost respect as a conservation minded C&R angler. Aside from that rant, I do plan on trying a few single hooks this weekend, though I'm not sure I'll be going barbless anytime soon for such big, powerful fishing being caught from a moving boat. It might be a small amount of more pain for the fish but when you're catching 25 pound bony-mouthed fish that fight like small tanks, I don't think the barb is going to hurt them as much as say a 5" wild Brookie.
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    ShenangoEyes
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/05 23:08:45 (permalink)
    .
    post edited by ShenangoEyes - 2016/05/05 23:33:14
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    genieman77
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 06:56:56 (permalink)
    Divemaster
    genieman77
    Forgive me...but this just slays me  .....we're talking about tricking a live critter, torturing it making it fight for it's life to point of exhaustion and possible(probable?)  death for our  "enjoyment/pleasure " ....and we're concerned about a fish's pain sensory perceptions????? (think Shirley Temple) "oh my goo'ness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW3vrbKZUUQ ..L.T.A.  


    We have very different views on fishing, I see. Most of the following is just my personal ethics if you feel like reading them, if not then no skin off my bones. To me, if the fish is foolish enough that it will fall for your bait/lure, then it is on the fish for getting itself in to the dilemma of being on the end of my line. I didn't go down there, grab the fish, and jam the hook in its mouth. But rather it chose to attack the lure. Obviously fish aren't as intelligent as humans as far as distinguishing a real forage fish from a lure, but for every fish that falls for your lure, there's a dozen smart enough to recognize that it's fake, or that just plain aren't feeding. If I do hook a fish that I plan on releasing, I'll play it as quickly as possible and handle it as gently as possible. During the fight I won't take any more time than necessary to boat or land a fish and once it's netted I'll either unhook it in the net and take a quick picture out of water if I'm creek/river fishing, or if I'm boat fishing I'll very quickly unhook and measure the length and girth of the fish. If I do weigh the fish then I'll use a sling. As for taking a picture and holding fish (let's say Lake Trout for example), I'll first grab the fish by the caudal peduncle and then support the trout under the pectoral fins by its stomach with the second hand. After a couple pictures, if the fish is healthy then I'll torpedo it back in and they take off very quickly. If it's weak then we'll bring up the trolling spread, stop the boat, and I'll hold the trout in the water from the swim platform until it swims away.



     
    I understand, Dive.
    as an old "peace, love and hippy beads" kind of guy, I've suffered the same moral dilemma  .
    How can I impale and torture a dumb animal for my sport/pleasure and be "nice" about it
    you know what?? I've never been able to fully  reconcile it.
     
    so I figured, what the 'ell...I'll play 'em to death, poke their eyes out and toss on the bank for the  coons to eat
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    not really ...I fish   barbless unless I'm  chasing fish I intend to kill and eat
    But I know deep down in my heart, I'm still just a boorish oaf that  enjoys tricking dumb animals and making them fight for their life ..
    because it's fUn ....
     
     
    ..L.T.A.
    #15
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:02:38 (permalink)
    See kids, this is why you should never, ever smoke, dope!!!! 
     
     
     
                                        or                                                                                     
     
     
     
    eat strange looking mushrooms!
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2016/05/06 07:07:18

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #16
    Porktown
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:03:52 (permalink)
    Take the moral high ground and rope and smoke em! Real question is, do you put a knife through the skull before cutting their gills bleeding them out alive?
    #17
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:06:45 (permalink)
    genieman77
    Divemaster
    genieman77
    Forgive me...but this just slays me  .....we're talking about tricking a live critter, torturing it making it fight for it's life to point of exhaustion and possible(probable?)  death for our  "enjoyment/pleasure " ....and we're concerned about a fish's pain sensory perceptions????? (think Shirley Temple) "oh my goo'ness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW3vrbKZUUQ ..L.T.A.  


    We have very different views on fishing, I see. Most of the following is just my personal ethics if you feel like reading them, if not then no skin off my bones. To me, if the fish is foolish enough that it will fall for your bait/lure, then it is on the fish for getting itself in to the dilemma of being on the end of my line. I didn't go down there, grab the fish, and jam the hook in its mouth. But rather it chose to attack the lure. Obviously fish aren't as intelligent as humans as far as distinguishing a real forage fish from a lure, but for every fish that falls for your lure, there's a dozen smart enough to recognize that it's fake, or that just plain aren't feeding. If I do hook a fish that I plan on releasing, I'll play it as quickly as possible and handle it as gently as possible. During the fight I won't take any more time than necessary to boat or land a fish and once it's netted I'll either unhook it in the net and take a quick picture out of water if I'm creek/river fishing, or if I'm boat fishing I'll very quickly unhook and measure the length and girth of the fish. If I do weigh the fish then I'll use a sling. As for taking a picture and holding fish (let's say Lake Trout for example), I'll first grab the fish by the caudal peduncle and then support the trout under the pectoral fins by its stomach with the second hand. After a couple pictures, if the fish is healthy then I'll torpedo it back in and they take off very quickly. If it's weak then we'll bring up the trolling spread, stop the boat, and I'll hold the trout in the water from the swim platform until it swims away.


     I understand, Dive.as an old "peace, love and hippy beads" kind of guy, I've suffered the same moral dilemma  .How can I impale and torture a dumb animal for my sport/pleasure and be "nice" about ityou know what?? I've never been able to fully  reconcile it. so I figured, what the 'ell...I'll play 'em to death, poke their eyes out and toss on the bank for the  coons to eat                                   not really ...I fish   barbless unless I'm  chasing fish I intend to kill and eatBut I know deep down in my heart, I'm still just a boorish oaf that  enjoys tricking dumb animals and making them fight for their life ..because it's fUn ....  ..L.T.A.


    I understand you. I've gone back and forth in my head about this all the time. There was one point a while back I even debated quitting the sport, but then I realized that it's part of me, like you said, no matter how barbaric it is, I still enjoy it because quite frankly I'm a human and I'm not perfect. Like I said above though, I do try to treat the fish as well as I can (and still land them) since they're providing me with great sport and fun.
    #18
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:09:04 (permalink)
    BeenThereDoneThat.
    See kids, this is why you should never, ever smoke, dope!!!!                                        or                                                                                        eat strange looking mushrooms!


    Lol, sorry but I spend all of my money on my fishing addiction and barely find enough to scrounge up for diving, I don't have time for all that stuff :)
    #19
    Porktown
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:13:43 (permalink)
    genieman77
    But I know deep down in my heart, I'm still just a boorish oaf that  enjoys tricking dumb animals and making them fight for their life ..because it's fUn ....  


    That would make a great t-shirt. Can't wait to reference this when the next holier than thou C&R saves the world freak enters a conversation. Couldn't agree more. Although, I tend to agree with the studies (or at least want to), that they do not have the part of brain that we have that associates pain. I don't think twice about squashing bugs, except stink bugs. I still try to do my best on releasing fish that I am not eating, and don't want to torture them any more than pulling them around by their face already does. Now back to my magnifying glass and insect burning.
    #20
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:13:57 (permalink)
    Porktown
    Take the moral high ground and rope and smoke em! Real question is, do you put a knife through the skull before cutting their gills bleeding them out alive?


    That works too, as long as you eat the fish and the population is healthy (ahem, opening-day-only "fishermen" haha). Whenever I keep Walleye I'll normally give it a few quick stabs in the head to kill it, or at least severely knock it out, then I let the plastic box full of ice take care of the rest. Although, there have been a few studies that show just putting a fish in a COLD environment (colder than most coolers) and just letting them sit on ice without water in the dark is a more humane way to kill since the cold puts them to "sleep" and the lack of O2 kills them in their sleep. Either works really if you're keeping them, I just don't like letting them flop around in buckets in the sun without water.

    Personally, I prefer to kiss the fish on the head then throw it back, that's the only reward I need :)
    post edited by Divemaster - 2016/05/06 07:15:19
    #21
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:16:33 (permalink)
    Porktown
    genieman77
    But I know deep down in my heart, I'm still just a boorish oaf that  enjoys tricking dumb animals and making them fight for their life ..because it's fUn ....  


    That would make a great t-shirt. Can't wait to reference this when the next holier than thou C&R saves the world freak enters a conversation. Couldn't agree more. Although, I tend to agree with the studies (or at least want to), that they do not have the part of brain that we have that associates pain. I don't think twice about squashing bugs, except stink bugs. I still try to do my best on releasing fish that I am not eating, and don't want to torture them any more than pulling them around by their face already does. Now back to my magnifying glass and insect burning.


    LMAO! See, I make useful threads from time to time XD
    #22
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 07:23:42 (permalink)
    Porktown
    Now back to my magnifying glass and insect burning.



     
     
    ********************************************************************************************************
     
     
    That's old school Porktown, get with the good times, can of hair spray and cigarette lighter, toast them babies.    Although, the wrong kind of hair spray will taint the flavor a bit!
     
     
     
     
    Dive, FYI, dope comment not aimed in your direction; thinking one to many times of surfacing too fast, though.
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2016/05/06 08:00:33

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #23
    freshwaterdrumR
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 08:53:06 (permalink)
    Go with the treble to catch more.  If you are worried about fish not surviving when released I would avoid things like using long lengths of leadcore or bringing them up from 100' down in the summer when the surface temp is 75 degrees.  I would think those things would have a much bigger impact than a single or treble hook.  Most of the ones we catch don't even get netted or brought in the boat anymore.  We bring them to the back, grab them with the boga grip, unhook them, then drag them behind the boat for a minute or two before pushing them straight down.  
    #24
    Divemaster
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 09:24:21 (permalink)
    freshwaterdrumR
    Go with the treble to catch more.  If you are worried about fish not surviving when released I would avoid things like using long lengths of leadcore or bringing them up from 100' down in the summer when the surface temp is 75 degrees.  I would think those things would have a much bigger impact than a single or treble hook.  Most of the ones we catch don't even get netted or brought in the boat anymore.  We bring them to the back, grab them with the boga grip, unhook them, then drag them behind the boat for a minute or two before pushing them straight down.  


    That's a good point, pressure and temp change probably has a much greater effect on the fish that whether there's one or two hooks in its mouth. I think it has the worst effect on Walleye because they simply cannot rise in depth (in terms of health) as quickly as they're caught and Steelhead tend to rocket out of the water a minute after hooked regardless of depth. Although, I have noticed chromers are a bit hardier and most swim away when I release them. I think Lakers are much tougher than both because of their ability to release gas quicker and tendency to dive instead of jump when they fight.

    What you do unhooking them in the water is very respectable, and definitely the safest thing for the fish. But at least at this point in my life I'm a picture junkie haha. Maybe once I've got a few more Lakers under my belt I'll be fine with just getting an in-the-water release shot.
    post edited by Divemaster - 2016/05/06 09:25:31
    #25
    genieman77
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/06 22:26:04 (permalink)
    BeenThereDoneThat.
    See kids, this is why you should never, ever smoke, dope!!!! 
     
     
     
                                        or                                                                                     
     
     
     
    eat strange looking mushrooms!




     
    I've been mountain and back
    never met a drug I wouldn't try in my knucklehead dayz (13 to 33)
    But bourbon was my drug of choice
     
    truth is, the powers that be  chose the wrong drug to legalize and promote
    cause pot heads are more civilized than drinkers
     
     
    ..L.T.A.
    #26
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/07 09:13:27 (permalink)
    geni the only thing I know between "alcohol"  and "smoke" is; it's a proven fact that alcohol is responsible for more deaths of others then "second hand smoke", ever has been proven, to be.   Key word is "proof''..........  no pun intended.
     
     
     
     

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #27
    pacarper
    Expert Angler
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/08 17:17:04 (permalink)
    Trebles..........pffft.........there is another option, quad hooks.  More points for max. blood and carnage .

    #28
    slabfinder
    Expert Angler
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    Re: Single vs Treble Hooks 2016/05/17 19:01:38 (permalink)
    Make sure you give them fish a hug when you release them.
    #29
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