Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing

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mike55
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 03:04:12 (permalink)
Flathead fisherman have caught some hybrids in small numbers all the way down in wheatland this past week on bluegills.
 
Keep in mind..
 
1. wheatland is 10 miles of water down river from the outflow. People are catching them there right now and have been for years.
 
2. Hybrids are stocked in the beaver river near wampum 20 miles down from wheatland. They are either swimming up 20 miles or swimming down from the outflow 10 miles. Still a long way for a hybrids to travel regardless. If they swim 10 they will surely do 20.
 
3. The two dams people keep referring to in this thread must not know anything about their size. They are small and are completely covered when there are 7 gates open.
 
 
 They are not at the outflow because there is no bait. With all that high water I expected there to finally be whites and stripes there. Still none. No shad to follow up.
 
Regardless the place is nothing but amish and people who rope everything up they catch. Has actually alwaways been that way but now we have no stockings to back it.
post edited by mike55 - 2015/07/27 04:03:45
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 10:19:25 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
So much for the Fish Commission worrying about PCB's in the Shenango River !  I guess 17,000 gallons of crude oil seeping in is trumped that problem. Those Trout are going to be slippery to hold onto now as well as wading those rocks ! Time to get the Dawn detergent ready ! Don't worry no Walleye were found dead ......... none left !!!
Maybe this is next..................

 
 
17000 gallons of oil leaking into Shenango....................?  Tell us more!
 





Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
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troutguy
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 11:15:13 (permalink)
Looking at the PFBC stocking lists(the same one BeenThereDoneThat posted) they last stocked the Beaver River with hybrid striped bass back in 2001.
 
So.....
 
The fish are either spilling out of the lake, or making the very long journey(above 5 dams) up from the Ohio River. I have no doubt that fish can make it over the dam upstream of Sharon during very high water. I'm not sure of the dam near Farrel, I haven't seen it in person, but I take your word for it mike55
 
But, can they make it over the 3 dams in Beaver Falls and New Brighton??? I doubt it. Those are much bigger than the two on the Shenango.
 
If they're jumping over the dams in Beaver falls, then why aren't they jumping over the dam in Orangeville?? They're not, unless the dam is underwater of course(which it sometimes is when the lake is very high). Still doesn't explain why they chose to swim all the way up to Shenango, and not the Mahoning, Connoquesssing, Slippery Rock, Mosquito Creek, Neshannock, etc., etc....
 
And even this year when it's "slow" hybrids are still being caught at the Shenango Outflow. But not below Pymatuning(MUCH easier trek from Shenango Lake to Pymatuning, compared to the long rough journey from the Ohio River to Shenango Dam). Plenty of shad there too.
 
I'm still not convinced that hybrids are swimming up to Shenango from the Ohio River. But, ya know, anything can happen I guess.........
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troutguy
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 11:17:13 (permalink)
mike55
Regardless the place is nothing but amish and people who rope everything up they catch. Has actually alwaways been that way but now we have no stockings to back it.



Unfortunately true.....
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troutguy
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 11:29:02 (permalink)
Regarding the oil spill....
 
http://www.sharonherald.com/news/local_news/pungent-petroleum-flows-into-shenango-river/article_a60fa5f7-458c-50b0-b0d6-8fac61d93146.html
 
https://www.facebook.com/...verWatchers?fref=photo
 
It actually happened in Big Run, a tributary to the river just upstream of Sharon.
 
CAPTAIN HOOK
Don't worry no Walleye were found dead ......... none left !!!

 
Haha!!
post edited by troutguy - 2015/07/27 11:30:37
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 12:56:48 (permalink)
Thanks troutguy............ now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go pout.  Stupid.... stupids!

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
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mike55
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 15:43:55 (permalink)
The dam near farrel is not a dam. It is basically a slope of concrete. Regardless its covered with high water.
 
The fish in orangeville are caught well above the dam during very high water. The beaver dams heading towards kinsman will hold stripers when the water is above the dam and the stripers are in their spawning stage.
 
Right now stripes are non existent at the outflow and I have only seen two in the last 2 years of any good size. If they were shot through they would always be there in the same numbers as they used to be. I cant say or stress this enough.
 
The only other explanation I can accept is they are shot through stockie size and grow in the river. There is no way an adult striper is flying through that outflow and surviving. It is just not going to happen. In years past there were so many hybrids at that outflow it was ridiculous. I don't see 50 to 100 adults flying through there in one year.
 
Why would they leave the outflow anyways. The conditions at the outflow are perfect for hybrids.
 
We have spots way down river the stripers show up to at the same time every year. Cant say too much but we do know they swim up to these spots. We have followed them for years now. They will show up miles and miles down from the outflow one month then continue up and stay if there is bait later once they reach.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 18:20:17 (permalink)
I never seen it at super high flow but that dam at the Aqua Water Works is fairly high. Always wonder if fish can get up that barrier at all. Too bad there is not some kind of lower        v - cut in that barrier it would no doubt help 100% for more fish to move upstream on high water and still hold back some water. Can't be much action at the outflows anymore it's got to be real slow fishing. No Stripers , no Walleye , no Channel Cats , very few Musky and Pike , Small Bass and Trout that's it..........what a shame ! Bet there's lots of room. I believe there are some type of fencing or guards around the outer sluices to keep obstructions out like floating timber and junk. I doubt bigger fish can get through at all and highly doubt they would survive . 
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troutguy
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/27 22:12:42 (permalink)
mike55
 
The fish in orangeville are caught well above the dam during very high water. The beaver dams heading towards kinsman will hold stripers when the water is above the dam and the stripers are in their spawning stage.




Correct. But during normal flows, they don't go over that dam. But they can get over the dams near Beaver Falls(much bigger) just fine?? That's what I'm getting at......
 
The fish shooting through the sluices in my opinion is still more believable than them swimming all the way up from the Ohio River. And again, if they are able to make that long journey, then they can go up all the other waterways in the Beaver River system as well. And they certainly can make it up to Pymatuning from Shenango Lake. But they don't(well, VERY few). 
 
Going back to the stocking lists, the numbers of fish stocked have been pretty consistent in both Shenango Lake and the Ohio River. So that's not to blame. The numbers/location of the baitfish is the next best theory. I agree with ya there mike
 
Fwiw, I caught a couple in the Shenango outflow last summer. And out of the few times I fished it this year I managed to hook into one good sized one. Didn't land it, but got a good look at the fish. That was back in May, before the high water events in June....
 
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/29 09:23:11 (permalink)
I see that ......Walleye stocking this year down 1 million fish due to bad Spring weather. Only 800,000 to spread around all lakes.... some will get none.  FLASHBACK / Does anybody remember the two huge Stripers that were taken out of the upper Shenango years ago ? I think I asked this question before (bad memory) the one was around the 20lbs. and was a record size at the time. I personally saw the photo at the Hot Spot Bait Shop in Jamestown Pa. near the river, she had it hanging up there for years . I'm taking 70's early 80's. Always wonder why Hybrid Stripers are not kept in any Pa. record categories in there own section. They lump them in with Inland Lake Stripers that get 3 to 4 times bigger. Doesn't make sense to me they are two different species. 
post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2015/07/29 09:31:37
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/07/29 23:57:35 (permalink)
walcat
Walleye stocking effort takes a hit in Pennsylvania         
Copy and paste


Perhaps a form letter to Mr. John Arway, titled  S.O.S!             
 
Save Our Shish................ or, at least our license money from being squandered on his pet project.
 
 
What's up Walcat, you been doing any fishing?

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
mike55
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/01 23:27:32 (permalink)
Troutguy,
 
You need to understand how high the river is when there are all 7 gates open to 2.5ft a piece. All the dams the entire way down are going to be covered. I have personally seen and caught stripers this year as well but they have been about 16-18 inches. Not sure when you started fishing it but there is no excuse or anything you can say to better the situation. There are no adult stripers at the outflow. The only adults are miles and miles away from the dam. The adults are not spit out of the dam. They might get shot out as stockies and grow in the river but I hope to GOD anyone with a brain would not think that many adults are shot through the outflow. If they were shot through the dam they would be there; they are doing very well on the lake this year for them. HOW MANY TIMES CAN I REPEAT THIS. IF THEY WERE SHOT THROUGH THEY WOULD CONSTANTLY BE THERE. THE LAKE IS A NEVER ENDING PIT OF HYBRIDS STOCKED EVERY YEAR FOR SHAD CONTROL.
 
Captain hook,
 
PFBC does not care about hybrids. They were introduced as shad killers not for sport fishing. They don't care about a record for them or even sport fishing for that matter. PFBC does not care about sport fishing. They are all about catching and eating not about the quality of a sports fishery. Much like all of your pictures.. Thank god the fishing is terrible now at the outflow. With all the pictures you are posting all over you would have the entire fishusa forum down there. More reports coming in locally. Few buddies took a kayak trip down the entire river and only landed a dozen small mouth. Two years ago they did over 150. Starting to realize from captainhooks photos most of the fish were probably stored in his freezer lmao. I keep blaming the Amish then I see pictures of walleyes and everything else roped up on this forum. First to complain are always the ones not helping the issue.
 
 
 
 
troutguy
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/01 23:59:51 (permalink)
mike55
PFBC does not care about hybrids. They were introduced as shad killers not for sport fishing. They don't care about a record for them or even sport fishing for that matter. PFBC does not care about sport fishing. They are all about catching and eating not about the quality of a sports fishery.



We may disagree about some stuff, but unfortunately we can agree on this. Sad but true, especially so when it comes to trout fishing. And because of poor management, other programs(such as the walleye stockings) suffer as well.
troutguy
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/02 00:25:42 (permalink)
mike55
You need to understand how high the river is when there are all 7 gates open to 2.5ft a piece. All the dams the entire way down are going to be covered.


I know how high the river gets, but there's NO WAY the dams in Beaver Falls get completely covered. Have you even seen them in person? The river would be dangerously flooded, and the water from the Ohio River would need to be backed up a ton to get the New Brighton dam underwater.
moooooo4me
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/03 02:01:42 (permalink)
Ill chime in again from what I read up about smallmouth, new castle area use to be a gold mine for smallmouth, 35-50 in a day was pretty common on a 3-5 hour day, a few nice ones to. now it seems were spending hours and only catching 1 or 2 and its not just smallmouth either, 2011 we were catching smallmouth, walleye, pike, trout, catfish in numbers each trip and the occasional striper and musky. its only been getting worse each year also. ive only caught a handful of smallmouth, some catfish, 3 trout, and pike on 50+ hours this year. we use lures and bait. bait being chubs and shiners we catch in the neshannock and big run creeks before hand which flow into the shenango about a mile apart from each other, I cant think of any explanations either. its sad to say the least though. where are all the fish going?
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/04 10:35:45 (permalink)
I got news for you Mike it isn't my freezer that caused all the Walleye to disappear it's the discontinued Walleye stocking program . We've taken Walleye out of that river for over 30 years some years more some years less. Those ropes don't do any damage as long as" the stocking continues" as always. Walleye to me are more of a table fish than a fighting sport fish and they are about the only fish I do keep and eat. I don't think my pictures of the fish being caught at the sluices are a big secret many a fishermen has passed those waters over the years. Besides I'm that confidant in my fishing skills that other fishermen aren't quite as experienced especially in the snag infested tailrace waters! Speaking of complaining I think the river went up a notch after your posts . I bet I can catch a dozen smallmouth in that river in less than two hours........oh by the way pictures talk.... bullshxx walks ! I had to put my rope away and sell one of my freezers this year..........beware of Amish Mafia !

post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2015/08/04 23:53:31
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/04 15:22:50 (permalink)
A tail-race has always been a popular spot for fishing be it;  from a dam used for hydro-electric, milling, flood control, etc, etc..    This area provides easy access to anglers and a "hot spot" to sustain many species of fish.  That combination is going to draw fisherman like a magnet draws iron.
 
Problem is, being easy access and attracting so many anglers also draws stupid ideas from the PSUFBC.  Dum ideas like stocking the waters with fish that have a snowballs chance in he!! of surviving.  Ideas that capitalize on a money making scheme whereby, a angler must purchase a special stamp to fish such water even if the angler does not target said fish.  Ideas that display a total disregard for, and a great waste of, the hard earned money spent by anglers.  [Certainly John could use a little of this wasted money for SOS].  Ideas only simpleminded biologist could devise such as stocking such fish (aka; trout) into waters already well established with other fishes capable of survival and even reproducing.  Foolish ideas by educated people lacking common sense whereby; waters capable of sustaining trout, are not stocked.  Just unintelligent, ignorant, dull-witted, idiotic ideas.  
 
In closing, may I say, That's all I have to say about that................... this time. 

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/04 23:51:22 (permalink)
Food for thought.......Where would Pymatuning Lake be today if no Walleye were stocked since 2007 like Shenango River ? In super bad shape for Walleye action ! I don't think fishermen fish Pymy to sport fish for Walleye and release them because they fight so well. No they fill their stringers , buckets , and live wells, with all the Walleye they can legally keep. Is there a problem with that ? Not really, because Pymy gets 4 million plus Walleye stocked every year. Put and take it's a revolving program ! When Shenango River was receiving 5-10 thousand Eyes per year once again no problem with many limits taken out yearly. Now it's 2015 and the Walleye numbers are way down.........so who's the bad guy here ? Don't blame the players blame the stocking game.
pensfan1
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/05 11:06:00 (permalink)
Wow 12pages.

First one same as the last........ Jus say'IN
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2015/08/06 23:44:20 (permalink)
I see your still reading.......must be just as bored too. Sucks to be talking when we all should be fishing. Waiting on a new forum to start soon hopefully with fish photos of recent catches.  
looch325
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Re: Sad News For Lower Shenango River Outflow Fishing 2017/02/10 13:48:22 (permalink)
troutguy
mike55
You need to understand how high the river is when there are all 7 gates open to 2.5ft a piece. All the dams the entire way down are going to be covered.


I know how high the river gets, but there's NO WAY the dams in Beaver Falls get completely covered. Have you even seen them in person? The river would be dangerously flooded, and the water from the Ohio River would need to be backed up a ton to get the New Brighton dam underwater.



yeah it just isn't possible, I've seen the dams covered twice in my life, the Flood of 1996 and one other time. I've lived in Beaver County pretty much my entire life and look at the 10th Street Dam everyday. And the couple times they were flooded I find it extremely hard to believe many, if any fish could swim up river with the amount of force and debris coming down river when it gets to that point. Both times it happened the steps down to the turbines in New Brighton had to be rebuilt, now they have metal ones. I've fished all 3 dams all my life and seen a few big fish come over the dam, going the other way is impossible except at the Eastvale dam where there is a side stream that goes around under the tracks and in spring carp are in there like at pymatuming, I assume spawning, you can see them from just off the walking trail. When I was a boy we used the Eastvale dam on the Beaver Falls side as a water slide, climb up the brick wall, walk up the tracks, jump in above the dam and do it again, we were dumb kids.
 
Anyway, the reason I joined was to ask a question, the fish and game website says they have been stocking 1000 tiger muskies(at least, some years 2000) in the Beaver River for the last 16 years, they put 10 in Lawrence County and 990 in Beaver County, where do they put these fish in at? Never seen one caught, only regular musky below the Townsend Dam(NB) which is connected to the Ohio. When I was young I caught a couple northern pike below Eastvale Dam but that's been 30+ years.
 
Eastvale: best fishing is bass, carp, and cats
10th Street dam: great Smallmouth fishing if you get out on rocks(kind of dangerous), carps, cats.
Townsend(NB/Fallston): Sauger, walleye, occasional hybrid striper, occasional musky, big flathead, carp, cats, etc. Even seen longnose gar off the Fallston wall.
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