NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED.

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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 12:36:44 (permalink)
wayne c
Funny you should say this because for the last few years, the support for sunday hunting has been coming from dems largely, with the more conservative, gun supporting republicans being the ones opposed!    To counter this, some of the libs pushing this since day one sought out help from groups like nra to try to help pressure the repubs to change their minds.  Funniest part is, some of those going to them for help are the most liberal type environmentalist hard liners out there and posing as god fearin', gun loving conservatives. lol     Its a tangled tangled web that they are weavin' my friend.     




Very tangled. Some of our elected officials opposed to SH, privately wanted the lawsuit to prevail.  It would have washed their hands of it and they could have blamed someone else. The last thing some repubs want is a vote and a record of the vote. There is a lot of squirming going on for sure. If the NRA steps up and puts some of the gun and sportsmans rankings on the line, you would see some serious squirming. 
 
It is certainly interesting to watch it play out. Some day it may happen if the makeup of our general assembly remains similar to what it is now. Demographics are changing though. We are seeing examples of this almost weekly now with court rulings, laws, and executive orders. Time will tell if the changes are better or worse for sportsman.

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wayne c
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 12:51:06 (permalink)
You obviously care as you keep repeatedly keep bringing up false assertions as an attempt to discredit me. It isn't working. 

 
To whom? lol.   There are about 3 of us taking part in this conversation and maybe another dozen that might end up reading this?    Just stating the facts so we're all on the same page in this discussion is all, or at the very least making It clear/explaining the facts I base my statements upon.


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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 12:54:36 (permalink)
wayne c
To whom? lol.   



No idea. It is you that keeps making them after I have said many times some particular ones are not true in regards to who or whom I work with. You got to be playing to someone. Maybe it is the 3 people here. No idea. 

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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 13:00:07 (permalink)
Go air rifle bill!! 
 
It has been my focus for two years now. Kinda shoots S-10s theory of some secret ultra classified attempt by me to decimate game populations more, lol. 
 
Also semi autos for predators and woodchucks. Been working on that as well. 
 
I haven't actually done much in regards to SH since the last bill died in session. I have not even addressed the new bill in any real way to those that matter. Just discussing on the boards which doesn't really do anything. 

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wayne c
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 13:00:16 (permalink)
Very tangled. Some of our elected officials opposed to SH, privately wanted the lawsuit to prevail.
    And many didn't.   Don't see any point worthy of debating there.   Btw, the spokesperson from hush is the one that was saying that.   And frankly, I don't find that the most credible of sources to say the least.   Although even if true, all that does is just shows some legislators are doing their jobs by going against their own personal beliefs to support those of the masses, their constituents.
 
It would have washed their hands of it and they could have blamed someone else.

 
Of course.    And who can blame them.   That's the way the system works.   Although "blame" is an appropriate word.    Blame isn't usually a term used for something positive?   Generally people go out of their way to take the credit for things that most people see as positives, especially vote pandering legislators?
 
 The last thing some repubs want is a vote and a record of the vote. There is a lot of squirming going on for sure. If the NRA steps up and puts some of the gun and sportsmans rankings on the line, you would see some serious squirming. 

 
Not really.  First, I don't see the nra going crazy, losing their marbles and "attacking" everyone not in support, including the most ardent gun supporters in the state, most of which do not support sunday hunting.   They have little choice but to separate the issues and not weight them equally.     Just as an example and going by memory there are thirty some sponsors/cosponsors of the Sunday Hunting house bill.     24 of them are democrats...  and if you look at the list, several among them aren't exactly big active prohunting advocates who have much knowledge of the sport.   And some are from the urban areas of Philly, Pittsburgh etc.    Except for some exceptions, many there are not exactly the "NRA" types my friend. lol.     And many of our biggest allies as gun owners hunters etc. are not on that list.  And you want to see bad grades given those legislators who don't support this sunday hunt expansion proposal?   SERIOUSLY???
 
And I do agree, sooner or later it will likely happen and sunday will be legal for 'deer'.     Hopefully we are in a better situation all the way around at the pgc and politically when it does.
 
Currently Im content to sit back and watch the environmentalists squirm every time they think a deer might be out there nibbling on a wildflower or sapling.    Then stomping their feet and gnashing their teeth every time one of their "kill'em all" newest ideas stalls and doesnt immediately fly through the legislature despite them practically temporarily devoting their lives to it. lol.
post edited by wayne c - 2015/06/28 13:11:27


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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 13:25:33 (permalink)
wayne c
  Btw, the spokesperson from hush is the one that was saying that.   And frankly, I don't find that the most credible of sources to say the least.   Although even if true, all that does is just shows some legislators are doing their jobs by going against their own personal beliefs to support those of the masses, their constituents.

 
I heard it directly from a few legislators. 
 
First, I don't see the nra going crazy, losing their marbles and "attacking" everyone not in support, including the most ardent gun supporters in the state, most of which do not support sunday hunting.
 
 
I agree. I don't see the NRA doing much more than offering a position and testifying in support of it. 
 
And you want to see bad grades given those legislators who don't support this sunday hunt expansion proposal?   SERIOUSLY???

 
I did not say that is what I wanted? I said if it happened we would see some serious squirming. 
 
Currently Im content to sit back and watch the environmentalists squirm every time they think a deer might be out there nibbling on a wildflower or sapling.    Then stomping their feet and gnashing their teeth every time one of their "kill'em all" newest ideas stalls and doesnt immediately fly through the legislature despite them practically temporarily devoting their lives to it. lol.



Been sitting back on it too. Been working on some other stuff for awhile. Did you see archery deer expanded in the SRA this year. 
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/28 13:26:45

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wayne c
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 14:45:15 (permalink)
As for the comment on some legislators wanting the lawsuit to prevail, Ms. Hush posted the statement you made, basically word for word on the PFSC message board back when the lawsuit was still in play and not yet thrown out on its ear.
 
As for the sra archery season deal...
 
Yep.   Heard about it being a possibility for awhile now prior to it coming about.    Not something I was or am opposed to.   I would actually love that statewide under different circumstances.   But not with current deer management and politics involved in the manner that they are.   Couldn't support it under current conditions.    I understand sras have much different management concerns and "too few deer"  isn't generally one of the biggest.    Only issue I could see some hunters having with sras is wmu boundaries.    I haven't looked into the appropriateness of the boundaries so can't really comment on.    As for the new season that now runs earlier and later, heck I might even make my way up north for more tree time if'n I can find a decent place or two before then.
post edited by wayne c - 2015/06/28 14:53:54


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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 15:39:20 (permalink)
wayne c
As for the comment on some legislators wanting the lawsuit to prevail, Ms. Hush posted the statement you made, basically word for word on the PFSC message board back when the lawsuit was still in play and not yet thrown out on its ear.



I would then assume she heard the same thing then. Don't much care where someone else heard it. I do my own thing. 

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wayne c
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 17:02:05 (permalink)
I do my own thing.
Uh, yeah, I pretty much addressed that in previous posts.


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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/28 17:39:10 (permalink)
wayne c
I do my own thing.
Uh, yeah, I pretty much addressed that in previous posts.




As did I. 

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Dr. Trout
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/29 18:53:22 (permalink)
I could care less what is legal 6 days a week but not on Sunday.....
 
legal or not ....
 
If I allow you to be on my land 6 days a week...
 
and legal or not...     I do NOT want you there on a Sunday ..  why am  a hipocrate ?????
 
 
It's my land ....   and If I state I will close it to all activities legal or not .. that too is my right..         IT'S MY LAND !!!!!
 
 
I still get info that the support for SH amongst THE HUNTERS   is STILL   about 50/50.....
 
WHY would anyone that supports hunting want to upset 50% of the current hunters... that sounds hypocritical to me ...... 
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/29 20:01:49 (permalink)
Dr. Trout 
If I allow you to be on my land 6 days a week...
 
and legal or not...     I do NOT want you there on a Sunday ..  why am  a hipocrate ?????
 
It's my land ....   and If I state I will close it to all activities legal or not .. that too is my right..         IT'S MY LAND !!!!!

 
It would be your land, and as a landowner, you decide who, when and where. No one is telling any landowner who to let on their lands and when. Landowner rights are not under attack as the PFB has mentioned in the past. 
 
What I did say was hypocritical was to take a position of being against SH because of trespass or day or rest concerns, but then have no issues with fishing, bike riding, atv riding, etc..... being legal on that same day. The vast majority of all other outdoor activites involve use of private properties, see more trespass as a whole than hunting, and are legal every day of the week.  That is what is hypocritical here.  If you oppose all outdoor activities that can involve trespass on Sundays, then your position is consistent and not hypocritical. 
 
WHY would anyone that supports hunting want to upset 50% of the current hunters... that sounds hypocritical to me ...... 



The legislation in question only transfers regulatory control to the PGC. It does not mandate SH. When the question has been asked "Are you in favor of a regulatory transfer of Sunday hunting from the general assembly to the PGC?" Most surveys come in at about 75% in favor of the PGC regulating SH. 
 
The discussion would then become, if the legislation passed, if SH should be implemented and how to go about it. If 50% of hunters oppose SH, that would be something the PGC would have to consider when approaching the issue. 
 
If you oppose a regulatory transfer, you support political management of game. It is as simple as that. Most hunters say they support game agencies regulating hunting over politicians, but some sing a different tune when it comes to SH. Doc. Sound familiar? 
 
 
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/29 20:17:31

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/29 20:17:12 (permalink)
DAD-BURN-IT-DOC................  did ya really have to?

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 07:46:27 (permalink)
Okay, I'll ask the stupid question -- if SH became a reality, would you take advantage of it, or if against SH, not go on principle?

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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pikepredator2
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 08:17:28 (permalink)
 
 
WHY would anyone that supports hunting want to upset 50% of the current hunters... that sounds hypocritical to me ...... 


What am I missing here with this question?  Doc, are you talking about those that support SUNDAY hunting upsetting 50% of the current hunters?   If so, and I support something and vote for it, I'm not caring about what the people that don't support it think.  Isn't that every issue at every election?  And if you're talking about supporting hunting in general and upsetting 50% of the hunters, then what about the other 50% you're not p***ing off?  Your land?  **** straight it is!  Yours to do, post, etc anything at anytime with.  I'm a staunch supporter of land owner's rights; 100% behind the people that want to post their land along Elk and Walnut and the fishermen be ****ed that think they should be granted access simply because they bought a fishing license.  But like dpms, I don't believe Sunday hunting is going to be the apocalypse a few of you seem to think it's going to be.  As I mentioned on the first page of this post, on many a Sunday in NY state, mine was the only car in the lot.  And it wasn't because all the other hunters filled their deer tags the week before.  There's church, family functions, home responsibilities and wives that haven't seen their husbands all week.  The list could go on and on.  And as for a day of peace and quiet, I don't know where you guys live, but out here on any given Sunday, these farm boys are blowing off enough ammo to supply a small squad of marines.  Not to mention the sled clubs in the winter and the ATVs going up and down my dirt road during the summer Sundays.  And that's what dpms's point is.  Why is it only HUNTING on Sunday going to upset the tranquility of that particular day?
post edited by pikepredator2 - 2015/06/30 08:27:37
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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 08:46:00 (permalink)
DarDys
Okay, I'll ask the stupid question -- if SH became a reality, would you take advantage of it, or if against SH, not go on principle?



Personally, probably not too much, to be honest. Probably the first two Sundays in November with the bow. Maybe till noon on the middle Sunday in rifle. Probably not at all in late flintlock. Maybe a Sunday or two in spring turkey. I need to catch up on life so hunting all weekend just is not going to happen. Maybe if the weather was forecast to be bad Saturday, I would pass and opt for Sunday. In that case, the pressure on game is a wash.
 
I don't bear hunt.
 
I do some small game. Been doing more squirrel hunting lately. I used to do a ton of that and am enjoying getting back into that a little bit. If air rifles become legal, I can see me doing a lot more of it.
 
All of the above if SH were to become legal for all species. I don't see this BOC allowing it for deer any time soon. Maybe small game, bear to start off with. Just speculating.
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/30 09:01:27

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 08:54:03 (permalink)
pikepredator2
 I'm a staunch supporter of land owner's rights; 100% behind the people that want to post their land along Elk and Walnut and the fishermen be ****ed that think they should be granted access simply because they bought a fishing license. 

 
Absoultely correct. This is not a landowner's rights issue as some like to make it out to be including the PFB. Your property, do as you please.
 
I brought up fishing as a non hunting outdoor activity as well. It is legal year round and occurs on both private and public lands. Trespass is a huge issue along the Erie Tribs and in and around many of the stocked trout streams in this entire state. Camping, loud music, littering, pooping in private property, riding atv alond the dirt roads. All related to fishing. Not to mention folks pulling off the road next to a stream and fishing their way up or downstream for a long ways through private property.
 
Some of the loudest anti Sunday hunting folks are huge supporters of fishing and particpate often in that sport. Yet, fishing is perfectly fine on Sundays for most of them. And BTW, fishing is more dangerous than hunting.
 
  Why is it only HUNTING on Sunday going to upset the tranquility of that particular day?


Yep. Plenty of other outdoor activities that are legal year round, involve trespass, and occur on every day of the week.
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/30 08:56:40

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 10:35:22 (permalink)
I don't shoot jakes or fawns and seldom shoot does or small legal bucks but I do and will, take advantage of increased seasons regardless of whether I agree with them or not. I will have to find some new ground to hunt however as my farmers have a different attitude about Sundays than DPMS says his have. Perhaps being closer to Pittsburgh his landowners are liberals.
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 12:38:40 (permalink)
And on the seventh day HE rested!!!!
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 13:19:28 (permalink)
Walleye jigs
And on the seventh day HE rested!!!!


Good for him. HE can rest all he wants (that's all he's been doing for 5000 years anyways).  Me, I'm hunting.  And let's not bring religious crap into this discussion.  Social media is saturated with it since the SCOTUS rulings this past week.
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 13:59:35 (permalink)
And that's why No One will ever hunt our farm on Sunday!
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 15:29:23 (permalink)
Walleye jigs
And on the seventh day HE rested!!!!

Yes he did. And on your farm you can do as you please. And I respect that.
 
 

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 15:30:47 (permalink)
S-10
 Perhaps being closer to Pittsburgh his landowners are liberals.



 
Maybe your landowners are just conservative hypocrites that refuse to even look at the facts pertaining to some of their areas of concerns?
 
Heck even you still want to cling to SH decimating game populations further when it has been proven that very few of our game populations in this state were reduced from hunting. Most are not remotely controlled by hunting at all here. And some are actually expanding and growing in population.
 
And the PGC has proven they can reduce or increase deer populations without Sunday hunting. They don't "want" SH so they can "decimate" populations further. They don't need it at all to do it. Of course, with oversight, I don't think the general assembly would let them. Again, with or without SH.
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/30 15:37:52

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 17:46:57 (permalink)
DPMS-- you keep making the claim that it is proven our game populations are not reduced by hunting. THEN WHY DID THEY CREATE THE PGC Why are they charged  with setting seasons and bag limits. WHY DO WE HAVE ANY BAG LIMITS.  Besides bear which populations are growing.  Why is there a season on bear?  Why are we only allowed one bear, after all hunting doesn't effect their numbers according to you. Why did they increase the limit on geese if it means nothing. Why any limit?
 
The PGC can't overtly increase the kill of deer because of the unrelenting pressure on them and the politicians. Adding Sunday does the same thing and gives them a bit of cover.
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 18:31:44 (permalink)
S-10
DPMS-- you keep making the claim that it is proven our game populations are not reduced by hunting.

 
What I said was that total populations of many, not all, of our game species are not controlled by hunting. There is a distinct difference. They ebb and flow from many reasons, with hunting having a minimal affect on many of them. 
 
Yes, if we have 10 squirrels and we kill one, they are 9 left. The population was reduced. That is your spin, not my assertion. 
 
If you believe that rabbit, squirrels, grouse, pheasant, quail etc... numbers are down and "decimated" because of hunting, you and I are too far apart to really be having this discussion. 
 
THEN WHY DID THEY CREATE THE PGC Why are they charged  with setting seasons and bag limits. WHY DO WE HAVE ANY BAG LIMITS.

 
This is present day Pennsylvania, not the 1910s. There is no market hunting and widespread sustenance hunting for food. Game agencies came to be to monitor and manage wildlife from the widespread abuses of the past. Hunting is used to remove excess animals or to provide sport in a regulated manner to maintain a  population in balance with the existing habitat. Not rocket science. In some cases, certain populations can decline with or without hunting. Stopping the hunting of quail in this state would not have prevented their continued decline. 
 
Besides bear which populations are growing.  Why is there a season on bear?

 
Bear is one species that can be controlled by hunting in Pennsylvania. There population is currently growing and expanding. They are not one of the broad brush "decimated" game animals as a result of hunting claim you made before. In some areas of the world, hunting does not control their populations. other factors do. 
 
The PGC can't overtly increase the kill of deer because of the unrelenting pressure on them and the politicians. Adding Sunday does the same thing and gives them a bit of cover.



Aah. We are back to deer I see. The commissioners want to "decimate" the deer population further, but because of the new oversight and hunter awareness, they need Sunday hunting to do it. Heck, even the USP supports SH, and they are the biggest more deer sportsman group out there. 
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/30 19:54:03

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 20:10:22 (permalink)
DPMS QUOTE:  Other than deer, SH and game are irrelevant. END QUOTE     bear , and turkey come to mind,  The passenger pigeon was hunted to extinction. Exactly what are all those species you claimed numbers are increasing. You spin a lot but don't answer the questions. According to you there is no need for game laws or the PGC for anything other than deer and bear. The PGC apparently disagrees.
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 20:35:37 (permalink)
The formerly abundant turkey was in the early decades of the 20th Century nearly extinct within the boundaries of the commonwealth (population estimates were below 5000 individuals that were primarily located in very isolated habitat areas of Pennsylvania). Aggressive action by the State Game Commission, though, to control and limit hunting and to initiate captive breeding and release programs enabled the wild turkey population to be re-established.
 
Sure sounds like the PGC thinks hunting effects game populations other than deer and bear
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 22:08:10 (permalink)
S-10
DPMS QUOTE:  Other than deer, SH and game are irrelevant. END QUOTE     bear , and turkey come to mind,  

 
I believe I said bear as well at some point. Elk would be in the same group. Although both are now expanding and growing in population. As for turkey, the current consensus seems to be hunting is not the controlling factor. 
 
According to you there is no need for game laws or the PGC for anything other than deer and bear. 



That is no where close to what I said. I have said repeatedly that hunting is not the controlling factor in many of our game species populations. 
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/30 22:28:07

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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 22:18:26 (permalink)
S-10
The formerly abundant turkey was in the early decades of the 20th Century nearly extinct within the boundaries of the commonwealth (population estimates were below 5000 individuals that were primarily located in very isolated habitat areas of Pennsylvania). Aggressive action by the State Game Commission, though, to control and limit hunting and to initiate captive breeding and release programs enabled the wild turkey population to be re-established.
 
Sure sounds like the PGC thinks hunting effects game populations other than deer and bear



LOL. You keep making my point.  This is not the 19th century or early 20th century. Many game populations were truly "decimated" as you like call it by either very poor regulated hunting, market hunting, sustenance hunting, or unregulated hunting. This isn't 1897. 
When a animal species is threatened or endangered you do everything possible to stop any losses, including ceasing or limiting hunting. That is what modern era game agencies do.
 
You have proven that the PGC does in fact protect our game species here in a responsible way. Making my point.
 
Again, so far you have said I said hunting does not "reduce" or "effect" game populations. I said neither, S-10. I said hunting is not the controlling factor for many of our game species today.  A distinct difference and one you have not grasped yet or are purposely avoiding as you know I am correct. 
 
As I said before, if you believe our total populations of grouse, pheasants, quail, rabbits, have declined because of hunting, and the PGC's management of them, you are living in another  universe. Do you really believe that? 

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dpms
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Re: NEW LEGISLATION JUST INTRODUCED. 2015/06/30 22:24:04 (permalink)
The only reason this discussion spun this way is by your broad brush statement that the PGC has "decimated" our game populations and that SH would decimate them further.  I simply am showing that the PGC has a history of protecting our game populations and that hunting is not the controlling factor in many of those "decimated" populations as you broadly proclaimed. 
 
SH, can have an impact on certain species in this state. Deer, bear, elk for sure. The jury is still out on turkeys. Consensus at the moment is that it is not hunting that is the controlling factor. I have never denied that some species could be impacted and that is where sound game management comes in to the equation. 
 
The only game animal whose population is down in this state as a result of hunting is deer. That was a planned reduction. No other game animal in this state has been "decimated" by hunting in our modern times. Many would even argue your "decimated" reference as quite a few see our deer populations as good. 
post edited by dpms - 2015/06/30 22:27:17

My rifle is a black rifle
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