MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?!

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pikepredator2
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2015/04/06 03:55:42 (permalink)

MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?!

More WMUs with
split buck-doe seasons (to be voted on April 10th).
Where once all WMUs across Pennsylvania held a concurrent, two-week, firearms buck-doe season, the deer season proposal for 2015-16 includes only five WMUs slated for such a hunt.
As proposed, only WMUs 2B, 5A, 5B, 5C and 5D would allow two weeks of hunting both bucks and does from Nov. 30-Dec. 12.
The other 18 units would allow buck hunting only from Nov. 30-Dec. 4, followed by buck and doe hunting from Dec. 5-12.
Proposed last week as new additions to the list of WMUs with the split season are WMUs 1A, 1B, 3A and 3D.
#1

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    BIGHEAD_1
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 05:33:06 (permalink)
    Quite frankly I think it is a good direction to go, It certainly will knock the doe kill rate down and we will benefit from. Two weeks of doe season is to much. At first when they started doe for two weeks  and you can get three tags it was like a field day. it was nice, But things should change and get the doe population back some. Either way will get my freezer full with just enough for what My family and I eat a year.
    #2
    pikepredator2
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 07:29:10 (permalink)
    I'm not really minding this either but it just seems they've been constantly ****ing with the regs since Alt came in and messed with everything.  3 points, 4 points, no brow tine, this WMU, that WMU, etc, etc, etc!
    #3
    S-10
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 08:10:13 (permalink)
    They went to WMU's and herd reduction with a lot of high hopes and unrealistic claims and now the chickens have come home to roost and the new commissioners are starting to back off a bit.
     
     
    I live in 1B on the edge of the NF and surrounded by several heavily forested game lands but am treated the same as Erie county with open fields, marsh's and croplands. Cutting the doe season by one week could be a good thing if they do not increase the allocations to make up for the decrease in hunting days.
     
    My concern is they are merely trying to give the illusion of having more deer by putting the doe off limits for the first week thereby letting them bounce from hill to hill for a few extra days to give the hunters something to look at besides leaves.
    #4
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 09:32:01 (permalink)
    Interesting.......... and I'm (being oooold school)...... for it!

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
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    #5
    pikepredator2
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 10:31:37 (permalink)
    Plenty of opportunity to fill a doe tag with archery, early muzzle, gun, late season.  wouldn't mind if they went back to the old, original gun season.
    #6
    Walleye jigs
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 10:49:23 (permalink)
    I'll ditto that!!!
    #7
    DarDys
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 18:56:01 (permalink)
    pikepredator2
    Plenty of opportunity to fill a doe tag with archery, early muzzle, gun, late season.  wouldn't mind if they went back to the old, original gun season.


    That's great if you archery hunt, muzzleloader hunt, and gun hunt. If your life does not revolve around deer hunting, the opportunity is the same -- especially for the gun hunters.

    Don't get me wrong, I was once for returning to the old gun deal of two weeks antlered and three days antlerless. I just liked two opening days.

    But I have changed my mind. Since I could not care less about antler size -- to me antlers don't make the deer, they make the deer legal -- I'm okay with a concurrent season. I'm going to attempt to harvest (kill, whatever) two deer and quit. I don't really care if they have headgear or not. If I can do that without going out during two different weeks, great.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #8
    wayne c
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 19:07:57 (permalink)
    Two weeks of antlerless with a rifle is overkill.  Plain and simple.  It can easily be argued that a full week is.   Opportunity is nice but this was done for the sole purpose of quick and extreme herd reductions when coupled with the ridiculously high allocations.   They need to cut back on tags and the antlerless rifle should never exceed a week unless somewhere down the road hunter numbers decline very significantly.  Many areas would benefit from a 3 day season.    Until our ranks decline significantly more at some point down the road, its about time they undid more of the damage that has been done to deer hunting in Pa and reign in more of the herd eradication tools.   They might also want to consider a pro-deerhunter when they finally hire their permanent choice of exec director as well as get rid of Rosenberry.   Until those things happen the credibility, even with some better moves being made, will always be in question.   Nothing better is being done currently that can't be changed in direction in the blink of an eye given the right political atmosphere.  In fact the changes haven't been all that earth shaking either as of yet.   Mostly slight tweaks and a lot of rumors spread which overall doesn't amount to much of real substance and if I were a betting man, it wont be much any time soon.
     
    Pgc is currently asking and lobbying actively again for a fee increase and are doing as little as they can to appease hunter demanding more deer just so they get consideration from legislators.   I say no fee increase until the situation at pgc is stable.   With a solid exec dir. hiring which they will likely be hiring one soon, solid or not, we'll find out I guess......also change of direction in deer management significantly compared to last 15 years and no more Rosenberry.   Only then should this even be in discussion.
     
    post edited by wayne c - 2015/04/06 19:16:29


    #9
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/06 21:41:36 (permalink)
    Wayne don't ya think Rosenberry is a mere puppet. Here's hoping he joins his buddy in Michigan.

    Dardy's I gotta agree. Heck, I'd pay for a "under 3 up tag", just let me enjoy the hunt.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
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    #10
    wayne c
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/07 14:13:02 (permalink)
    No I don't Beenthere.   Not at all.   While some above him have always shared the view of herd reductions  for biodiversity extremism etc. like Roe & Dubrock who had always been the biggest players, that doesn't diminish the role and great responsibility of Rosenberry.   He was hand selected for the position because he strongly shared those views.   And its clear his arm is never being twisted to give his views and recommendations to the board and legislators and takes on things to the press for years.     Having seen the deceit involved and agenda pushing, there is no way that credibility can be had by the current deer management team as-is.   Even with the turnover in positions at pgc like the head of the bureau of wildlife and the exec director, the suggestions from Rosenberry have not waver a bit.   He is still suggesting increases in tags, still taking part in legislator brainwashing studies, still recommending 2 week seasons statewide and I have no doubt would go even further if he knew he had board support.    He was brought in more as a guy who was to be a partner in the agenda.   Not just some random Joe that someone from above could strong-arm, just as nobody from above forced Fleegle to refer to hunters as little kids crying for a ball.    If change of direction in hunter friendly direction is desired in deer management.  No way, no how can they go forward with current deer team as is.    It would be impossible to trust the information and recommendations were coming from anything other than their known agenda.   And the board of commissioners should have what they can trust is the best possible science to help form their decisions and policy making.
    post edited by wayne c - 2015/04/07 14:17:08


    #11
    pikepredator2
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/07 14:32:08 (permalink)
    Never going to be a "hunter friendly" PGC when it comes to deer management.  We're 4th in line behind insurance companies, the paper industry, and farmers.  A while back when I was hunting NY state I had the opportunity to talk to their game commission in Albany.  I was remarking about how easy it was (at the time) for non-residents to not only get doe tags, but bonus tags as well (I wouldn't even apply and they would arrive in the mail).  Their response was, "we want our deer dead"!  I thought, "well then, ok".  Pennsylvania has adopted that attitude since the Alt days.  Yeah, we pay their salaries, but more deer is the last thing our game commission wants. 
    #12
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/07 23:21:16 (permalink)
    I see this proposal as say; a first step in the right direction and, I know the tunnel is still long but, I like to think there is now light at the end of the tunnel.  Let's just hope, there is not a train behind that light.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #13
    treesparrow
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/26 16:06:57 (permalink)
        I have had a much-much different take on the deer management situation than most on this site. When I listened to Dr. Alt I thought finally the Pa Game Com. is addressing this farce that has been taking place for decades.
        I realize that many of you will feel I am prejudiced because of my background as a Forester. I became a Forester so many years ago because of my love for the outdoors and hunting and fishing. I still love to hunt and there is no grander game animal than the white tailed deer. I hunted for years in the Quehanna  Wilderness Area for the challenge even though the hunting around home was so much easier. Even in the 70's there were very few deer in the Quehanna and we only would see a couple a day after first day. There was no feed, timber was pole stage to somewhat marketable, and the ground cover was nonexistent. Browse line was so quickly apparent and the only thing existing in that 5' space was flora that deer did not eat. My brother and I hiked the Susquehanna Trail one summer after a fairly bad winter and the small stream valleys were littered with deer carcasses. It was lack of feed pure and simple.
         At this time I do not care to argue the merits of currant whitetail policy.
    Also wouldn't argue with anyone that  the majority of Pa  could handle a larger deer population. However in the next ~20 years that is going to drastically change. Some who know me already know what I am going to say. Non native species of shrubs that are infiltrating our landscape are steadily compromising the ability of native fauna to feed.
        The number one harmful species has to be the honeysuckle that was brought in. PA Game Com. is one of the suppliers of this obnoxious shrub. Right now late April it is easily identified as it is one of the first shrubs to green up.  I have never seen any indication of deer browsing on it. As you drive down the roads be aware that it has taken over where other native species once lived. Most all our native species were browsed by deer. In many areas my best guess is that at least 20% of the edge cover is now non browse, and that has developed in the last 25 years. What will the next 20 years bring?
    #14
    pikepredator2
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/26 16:36:55 (permalink)
    treesparrow, are you saying our whitetail are so specialized that even if hungry enough would not browse on non-native species, risking if not extinction, then becoming "endangered"?
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    S-10
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/26 18:03:31 (permalink)
    The whitetail feed on many species of non-native shrubs and plants and in fact used to keep a few of them under control. That is one fact the anti deer crowd and PGC have never wanted to admit. In fact Honeysuckle, in particular, Japanese Honeysuckle is heavily utilized by the Whitetail in many parts of the country including Penna.
     
    I have taken part in several lively debates between hunters who have planted or are considering planting it to keep the deer around and the enviromentalists who say the dangers it presents once it gets out of control outweighs the benefits to the deer. Hunters who have planted it disagree but they are more concerned with the deer it holds than the neighbors fields.
     
    Actually, many of the invasive species were originally planted or encouraged by the various environmental or wildlife agencies for such things as erosion control, reclaiming strip mines, and wildlife feed and cover. Multi flora rose is another one that the deer helped keep under control when feed was less plentiful by feeding on the hips and attached leaf and stem. Russian olive is another one that takes over the landscape but deer like.
    post edited by S-10 - 2015/04/26 18:26:14
    #16
    treesparrow
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/26 20:32:24 (permalink)
      s-10, I am not referring to Japanese honeysuckle, but to Amur and a few others invading . Yes deer will at times it appears browse on the shoots especially when the berries are present and the seeds are dispersed in the feces. Walk a trail in the winter with heavy honeysuckle and observe for years like I have the browsing going on. About every other species is browsed on but the honeysuckle. Also I have never seen any indication of rabbits knawing - feeding on the stems like they depend on our natives. I believe Japanese Honeysuckle comes with its own sets of problems.
      pikepredator2  I am not sure if they would eat if starving or not, or what a heavy diet of honeysuckle would cause in their gut. I know the berries have been confirmed to negatively effect songbird health. Also there is a correlation between Black Legged Tick (deer tick) population and presence of Amur Honeysuckle ( more Honeysuckle= more ticks). It is also well documented that it negatively effects both regeneration and growth of many common native trees ( Sugar Maple, Red Oak, Black Cherry to name three). With your logo pikepredator, how about the (Eurasian Milfoil) and how it is taking over many of the native weed beds that Pike utilize. I am loosing year after year all my honey hole- weed beds for Pike in Georgian Bay of Lake Huron. Guaranteed there isn't a pike that can swim through that milfoil let alone ambush in it.
     
      To all, I hope I am wrong about my dire prediction of the future negative influence of this species. I warned the Game Commission 20 years ago of what I had observed and what I felt the impact was going to be. I also said that it was at that time possible with a strong suppression effort to eradicate it. I was told they had just that year  stopped supplying it from their nurseries, and realized how bad it was. It would take a Congressional Order to eradicate it today. If I was in congress things like this would have first priority. The way we are headed we are unleashing many terrors to ourselves and our ecosystem at an alarming rate.
         I watched a TV show on Florida Wildlife Pest Control agents. They had a little bit in the end on a bunch of people with permits to keep and breed poisonous snakes. Amongst Gabon Vipers, and various Cobras being bred and traded by the public. Its probably to late now-and we may say soon "There Here".
       By the way I am not running for Congress.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    post edited by treesparrow - 2015/04/26 20:35:53
    #17
    S-10
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/26 20:56:08 (permalink)
    If I remember correctly Amur was introduced by either the US forest service or the US soil conservation service for erosion control and wildlife food although mostly for  songbirds and small mammal's as opposed to deer. Deer do eat the leaves and berries but don't hit it like they do the Japanese type. Just another example of the so called experts promoting something without studying the effects then blaming the citizen for following their lead.
     
    I've seen where both kinds have smothered patch's of oak shoots so understand why the timber folks hate them.
    post edited by S-10 - 2015/04/26 20:58:36
    #18
    pikepredator2
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/27 06:26:16 (permalink)
    treesparrow, ever been to Manatoulin Island?  That's where we used to go when my bro was alive.  stayed at the Birch Island Lodge just outside Little Current.  Bay Finn
    #19
    treesparrow
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/27 07:33:03 (permalink)
    S-10 Yes many organizations including the PA Game Com. were responsible for the dispersal. It is also believed to emit a toxin that suppresses other species growth.
     
    pikepredator2 I have never been out to  Manatoulan Island although I was in Sudbury Ont. quite a few times. I lived in Britt Ont. and Commercial Fished and guided from there south~15 miles and north on the bay 10 miles. Beautiful area and great fishing. The new world record Musky could come from there someday. I still visit couple times a year. I have friends in area although most have passed. The Manatoulans  are said to be beautiful area.
    #20
    pikepredator2
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/27 13:10:54 (permalink)
    treesparrow, can you recommend some areas up there for northerns that aren't as far as a drive as Manatoulin?  guided, unguided, lodging.  anything would be appreciated.  haven't been back in about 4 or 5 years and would love to do more northern trips to closer areas.  
    #21
    treesparrow
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    Re: MORE WMUs? HOW ABOUT MORE WTF?! 2015/04/28 07:19:58 (permalink)
    pikepredator2, Britt Ont. where I go with my brothers and friends is what I consider good pike fishing. In the 70's it was better however we may have just been a lot more aggressive as young fishermen. Also the last decade has seen very shallow water coupled with loss of Cabbage Weeds to the Milfoil. We still get a couple 20 lb fish most years. Its the lack of numbers of the 5 to 10 lb fish these days. We will see now that the water is rising again. Be advised it is treacherous water. It is shallow shoaly and very hard on props and lower units. Many first timers are dragged back minus props or worse. We still bang one up occasionally. It is only ~50+ miles shy of Manitoulan area. There are rentals in the Britt area but costly. I know of no guides anymore. In the 60's & 70's there were many lodges and lots of locals guided as did my brother and I. It was a time I cherish.
          I do catch quite a few in P.I. and some of the N.W. PA lakes. I have heard but not experienced the pike fishing being very good in the Finger Lakes. I want to fish MN. but for that will travel even farther.
          When I go after the toothies around NW PA I chase the Musky's mostly.
          Good luck!
    post edited by treesparrow - 2015/04/28 07:23:43
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