poly/versi/polytaper-leaders

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FishinGuy
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2015/02/24 07:46:52 (permalink)

poly/versi/polytaper-leaders

So I finally picked up a sink tip line(cheap) for throwing streamers on my 7wt and was planning on buying a spare spool for my konic, but alas, its discontinued. I just spooled up my reel with a wf7f sa magnum taper line. My question is. With this line and versi/poly sinking leaders, have I eliminated the need for the sink tip line? Or would there still be benefits to having the spare spool w sink tip line? I've never used a sinking poly leader so I'm not real sure what to expect, performance wise. I ordered some of the 7 and 9 ft cortland polytaper leaders on sale and cant wait to try em out. I dont expect to be fishing much more than 10' deep. Any input at all would be real helpful. Thanks guys.
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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/24 07:56:45 (permalink)
    BTW, 10' 7wt mod fast single handed rod.
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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/24 10:13:36 (permalink)
    How would you fish 10 feet deep with a 7 foot sinking leader? Not possible.  Leaders won't get you more than a foot or two deep. 
     
    You can loop on a section of T-14, but a 7 weight won't cast more than a few feet of T-14, you're getting, max, 2-3 feet deep.  Only way to get deeper is a long integrated sink tip line like a SA Streamer Express, 30' sink tip.  Rio Outbond sink lines cast better for me but the tip is shorter, 24 feet.  When you go to a sink tip line, use no more than 3 feet of leader material, no lighter than 12 lb test.
     
    I have a Konic too.  The new Konic spools fit the old Konic reels, at least, in my case.  I bought two spools last spring.  They are different color than the frame but fit fine.
    post edited by D-nymph - 2015/02/24 10:15:12
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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/24 11:27:58 (permalink)
    " How would you fish 10 feet deep with a 7 foot sinking leader? " i never have. Thats what im trying to figure out. 10' is just a max number I would fish. Most situations would be less than that. I just assumed w a slow retrieve and a weighted fly I would get at least 50% of leader length deep, add longer tippet to get the rest of the way down, no?(thinking crayfish patterns for sm with an upstream presentation) . thanks for the lesson. Maybe I do need that spare spool and something like that streamer express line. BTW, The new konic(konic II) seems to be discontinued also.
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    KJH807
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/24 14:54:22 (permalink)
    FishinGuy
    So I finally picked up a sink tip line(cheap) for throwing streamers on my 7wt and was planning on buying a spare spool for my konic, but alas, its discontinued. I just spooled up my reel with a wf7f sa magnum taper line. My question is. With this line and versi/poly sinking leaders, have I eliminated the need for the sink tip line? Or would there still be benefits to having the spare spool w sink tip line? I've never used a sinking poly leader so I'm not real sure what to expect, performance wise. I ordered some of the 7 and 9 ft cortland polytaper leaders on sale and cant wait to try em out. I dont expect to be fishing much more than 10' deep. Any input at all would be real helpful. Thanks guys.



    What is your sink tip line? how many ips? what type of running line?
     
    That floater with the density compensated leaders is still a "floating line"... it will pull those leaders to the surface with every strip.  only being 7 and 9ft long.... you will not be actively fishing at a depth  more than 5ft... imo.   also... those leaders will not carry large/heavy flies
     



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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/24 17:13:19 (permalink)
    I'll let you know the details of the line after work. I know it was a cabelas brand floater w a 6' sink tip not sure on the IPS or grain weight. It was cheap-$10. so its no big loss if I don't use it. Seems the general consensus here is that if I wanna fish a streamer deeper than 5' I need either a full sink or intermediate with a 20'+ sink tip. Might end up going the used route for a spare spool then I guess and a little more serious sinking line to get to 5'+. I went with the 7 and 9' vs the 14'(or however long the longer ones are) because I wasn't sure how they'd cast and turn over flies with my set up. If these prove manageable I could try the longer ones too I guess. On a side note. I finished reading the "watcha tying" thread on the drake last week. Saw some very impressive stuff on there from yinz. Much respect.
    post edited by FishinGuy - 2015/02/24 17:14:25
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    KJH807
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/25 08:29:06 (permalink)
    sounds like this sink line won't get you any deeper than your floater with a density compensated leader... it may even fish shallower
    BUT it should be able to turn over larger/heavier flies
     
     



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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/25 10:15:24 (permalink)
    Basically, if someone intends to fish streamers at any kind of depth there is no substituting for a long sink tip line & no short cutting to getting deeper. 
     
    http://buy.scientificanglers.com/lines/mastery-fly-lines/mastery-series-streamer-express-30-head.html
     
    Trying to nip at the edges & margins with goofy leaders & lead in your flies will cost more money & wasted time in the end.  Because you'll end up frustrated trying to force things to work & buying another spool & line anyway.
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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/25 11:36:15 (permalink)
    Thanks a million guys. I think you've helped me convince the cheapness in me to do what I knew I needed to from the beginning. Now to find that spool...
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    KJH807
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/25 14:52:25 (permalink)
    BUy the line before the spool
     
    it takes less than 5mins to remove a line from a reel and put on a new one



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    eggsacks4life
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/25 23:33:52 (permalink)
    Kevin's got a good point, if the rear of your fly line is looped you can put a loop in your backing on all your reels and swap out lines pretty quick, just as you would a leader to your fly line. I have spare spools for all my reels but I still do this because I end up having more lines than I do spools. Takes a bit getting the hang of wrapping them up so you don't end up with a mess but its worth it if your willing to take a few minutes to swap them.
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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/26 09:58:12 (permalink)
    eggsacks4life
    Kevin's got a good point, if the rear of your fly line is looped you can put a loop in your backing on all your reels and swap out lines pretty quick, just as you would a leader to your fly line. I have spare spools for all my reels but I still do this because I end up having more lines than I do spools. Takes a bit getting the hang of wrapping them up so you don't end up with a mess but its worth it if your willing to take a few minutes to swap them.


    Yea, that's fine if you only plan to fish one style of fishing.  Or if you don't fish very often.  Some of us will often fish top water & deep in the same outing, so it's not an option to change lines on a spool, while on the river.  Especially when your reel is a Lamson Konic & an extra spool costs $50 (I use the same reel as the original poster).
     
    Sometimes changing lines out I end up with a tangle that might take half an hour to undo.  Time on the river is too precious for that kind of hassle.
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    KJH807
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/26 14:55:06 (permalink)
    D-nymph
     
    ...
    Sometimes changing lines out I end up with a tangle that might take half an hour to undo ...



    yeah thats called user error
    i can swap out a 100' line in the time it takes you to eat slice of pizza and take a pizz
     
     
    ... my point... if your budget allows for either a line OR a spool... get a line
    post edited by KJH807 - 2015/02/26 14:57:11



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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/26 14:58:51 (permalink)
    KJH807
    D-nymph
     
    ...
    Sometimes changing lines out I end up with a tangle that might take half an hour to undo ...



    yeah thats called user error
    i can swap out a 100' line in the time it takes you to eat slice of pizza and take a pizz
     


    Sometimes I need protected from myself, bro.
     
     
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    eggsacks4life
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/26 20:52:32 (permalink)
    D-nymph
    eggsacks4life
    Kevin's got a good point, if the rear of your fly line is looped you can put a loop in your backing on all your reels and swap out lines pretty quick, just as you would a leader to your fly line. I have spare spools for all my reels but I still do this because I end up having more lines than I do spools. Takes a bit getting the hang of wrapping them up so you don't end up with a mess but its worth it if your willing to take a few minutes to swap them.


    Yea, that's fine if you only plan to fish one style of fishing.  Or if you don't fish very often.  Some of us will often fish top water & deep in the same outing, so it's not an option to change lines on a spool, while on the river.  Especially when your reel is a Lamson Konic & an extra spool costs $50 (I use the same reel as the original poster).
     
    Sometimes changing lines out I end up with a tangle that might take half an hour to undo.  Time on the river is too precious for that kind of hassle.




    In your case, worrying about a minute or two, why not just carry a couple sticks and reels that way you don't even have to bother with reeling your line up, swapping spools and re rigging. You could just grab n go.
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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/27 11:39:07 (permalink)
    I may or may not do exactly that. The expense of multiple fly rods, reels & lines is not comparable with the price of extra spools. 
     
    I'm not worried about "a minute or two" but I would be about half an hour of tangled mess because stripped fly line is tangled up in weeds or the bottom of my boat.  It's flat out not "a minute or two" to swap a fly line off of a reel, then another onto it.  Unless you have a line winder device & do you or anyone else carry one of those when fishing?  It is "a minute or two" to swap spools, but not lines.
     
    Perhaps I'm more messy/disorganized then you or others.  I end up with a tangled mess more often than not, swapping lines.
    post edited by D-nymph - 2015/02/27 11:51:59
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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/27 12:35:35 (permalink)
    I ended up with a tangled mess putting a brand new one on. A respooled one would likely be disastrous if attempted it in the field. Still, good suggestion. And certainly fitting seeing as how I'm having a hard time finding a new spool anywhere at all.
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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/02/27 13:57:53 (permalink)
    FishinGuy
    I ended up with a tangled mess putting a brand new one on. A respooled one would likely be disastrous if attempted it in the field.



    wouldn't that be fun while your out fishing to "relax"?  lol
    #18
    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/03/05 18:06:34 (permalink)
    Another question. I don't know the grain window of my 7wt. SA website says 200gr for 6/7wt 250 for 7/8wt. Another source tells me 200gr is for 7/8wt and 250 is for 9/10wt. My rod is on the faster side(cabelas TLR) . should I stick with the 200gr if I go the scientific anglers route? Or should I just say f all that and get the Rio that actually says 7wt?-outbound short wf7i/s6
    post edited by FishinGuy - 2015/03/05 18:07:40
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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/03/05 18:32:15 (permalink)
    My assumption is that a 250gr on a 7wt would be OK in close but could overload the rod at distance. Where as the 200 wouldn't load as well in close but would help in longer distance situations. But for all I know the 250gr would be like trying to cast a piece of anchor rope with the chain still on the end, especially since its a sinking/intermediate line.
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    KJH807
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/03/06 08:39:22 (permalink)
    FishinGuy
    My assumption is that a 250gr on a 7wt would be OK in close but could overload the rod at distance. Where as the 200 wouldn't load as well in close but would help in longer distance situations. 

    don't try to carry these lines "at distance"
    learn to double haul to build line speed, but once the tip of the line is out of the rod... let it shoot
     
    It sounds strange
    but shooting with the the 30ft head out of the tip of the rod will give you a longer/better cast than shooting with 30fthead+20ft of running line out.
     
    you should be able (in time) to shoot the line with only 2 or 3 back casts



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    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/03/06 09:19:56 (permalink)
    I have been practicing my double haul. It's tricky. feels very unnatural at first, but then you can really feel that rod loading up nice when you get it right.
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    D-nymph
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/03/06 11:40:53 (permalink)
    From showing people how to fish those lines, the double haul is #1 most important thing.  More than line grains, rod actions, fly size, whatever, double haul is #1.  The bad habits people pick up roll casting bobber rigs & dry flies in smaller stream environments is really hard for them to overcome.  Learn that double haul, or you'll end up pretty frustrated.  I've spent hours watching people in the front of my boat, who struggle to doudle haul, just kind of dangle their line in the water & look around frustrated.  They don't even want to fish any more.  It's because they can't understand, (even though I try to teach them DH is not something most can learn in an hour) why the dude in the back of the boat is effortlessly throwing 60 feet with 2 back casts & they struggle to get 20 feet with 6 back casts.  A sink tip is a totally different feel than a floating line.  You can get way with all kinds of bad habits & bad loops with a floater.  If you do the same thing with a sink tip & 6" streamer, it's a pile of line smacking yourself in the shoulder.
    #23
    FishinGuy
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/03/06 16:02:39 (permalink)
    "a pile of line smacking yourself in the shoulder." This is gonna be fun. But I was getting OK with my double haul last fall. stalking carp in a shallow lake w a 4wt throwing small bead chained rabbit strip streamer bug things. I've still never cast a full fly line, but for the most part, I assume that's unnecessary.
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    wrighter00
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/05/13 00:42:58 (permalink)
    I've used an 8-10ft sink tip joined loop to loop to WF floating line on a 7wt fly rod, 8wt switch rod, 9wt spey rod, and a 10wt fly rod to get down anywhere from 6-15ft. Granted it takes using a fairly weighted fly and allowing it time to sink. My strip retrieves are typically slowed or substituted for jigs and twitches, but the desired effect was to display a bait moving along the bottom. I'd imagine that a solid sized split shot spaced up from the fly would also achieve the desired effect if you're using a crayfish pattern.

    I've used this method to pick up Sea Trout in the Gulf of Mexico, and was casting towards 10-12ft channel markers from the flats. The drag of the fly on the bottom, creating small clouds of sand behind it, was what I was going for and having the most luck with for bites. I've since adapted similar methods when lake fishing though I avoid the bottom there because of weeds and debris. When river fishing, I've never had a problem getting a weighted fly on a long leader down to small mouth/walleye range with floating line as my indicator. 3-8ft being the average depth on my local float river unless it's late summer. The key has been allowing the fly time to sink, and avoiding heavy current for seams. Sometimes I even troll the flies behind the kayak, and that works, too.
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    wrighter00
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    Re: poly/versi/polytaper-leaders 2015/05/13 00:55:51 (permalink)
    and like everyone else said... Double hauling has been key in me tossing those sink tips. Also, the longer casting rods (switch & spey) make it easier, but I wouldn't rush out and buy them unless you get extreme deals on them like I did. 
     
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