Lockeddeer camps?

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2014/12/13 08:38:23 (permalink)

deer camps?

when i was a younger man, it seemed that everyone in ohio or pa. went to a camp for the season opener.  neighbors and coworkers here in the flatlands all belonged to or owned places in the mountains of pa.  i hear little about these anymore.  is it a dying tradition?  are hunters going closer to home?  i've never been much of a deer hunter but with fewer guys going to 'fishing camps' anymore, it came to me that i've not heard much about deer camps either.  sad to think that the days of the 'sportsmen' are waning.  not just in pa., but i've noticed fewer are hunting my old haunts in ohio also.  seems like the old guys are casing their guns and the kids have found something else to do.
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/13 10:45:38 (permalink)
    Good morning Rap.  Misty fog freezing on everything it touches here in 1-A.  Sitting in my favorite deer stand, enjoying my coffee.
     
    Really good question about the deer camps of yesteryear, compared to those of today.  I don't know if deer camps are becoming a thing of the past or if it's just the means by which we hear the stories.  Somehow, it just doesn't seem the same, standing in WalMart and talking hunt/fishing as it did back in the mom and pop sporting stores era.  I find the stories published on the blogs to be interesting and even inspiring but, somehow reading and having coffee just isn't the same.  I know of a few distant family members that maintain a camp and have two buddies that have family camps.  Heck, the one camp boast of 'The Trophy Wall' and it's not antlers hanging there.  This camp maintains the old tradition of 'if you miss, it'll cost you your shirt tail' and shirt tails there are.  Heck, telling a kid you'll cut their shirt tail off  will get you busted for child abuse today.(lol)
     
    Recently read a comment, on another thread, mentioning how hunting small game leads to big game hunting.  Lot of truth there, as I remember the excitement of applying for goose blinds to hunt geese at Pymie, hearing the report on stocking of the pheasants, standing in line at the county court house for a 'antler-less' tags (standing inline for a permit today?).  Just going for a hunting license added to the hype that fired hunters up for the big opener!  Least not forget, the sounds associated with hunting, the baying of the 'rabbit hounds'.  In my book there is no other sound that could get a hunter into the spirit.  Welllll, honestly, can't leave out the jingling of the bells on the collar of the bird dogs.
     
    Today, reports are gleaned from the internet be they, about deer numbers, pheasant stockings, or just plain weather conditions.  Got my license via the internet and I don't need to enter a lottery for a duck or goose permit.  Don't need to go to Pymie to hunt 'em either!  Not even sure of many mom and pop sporting stores where the coffee is free and the chewing isn't pretty much negative now days.
     
     

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #2
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/13 11:04:26 (permalink)
     Somehow, it just doesn't seem the same, standing in WalMart and talking hunt/fishing as it did back in the mom and pop sporting stores era.
     
    btdt, this is sooooo true.  i still have a couple of shops where i plant myself with a cup of coffee and talk or just listen. the internet may have been a great learning tool but it lacks in so many areas.  
     
    as for hunting, my days appear to be done, at least for now, though i still long for the turkey woods and the occasional squirrel hunt   maybe i wax nostalgia,  but i miss the days growing up in the woods and water in the 60s and my mobility via car in the early 70s.  so many places to go and explore, sans google.  
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    wayne c
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/13 16:15:33 (permalink)
    Don't know much about fishing camps, as most in Pa are huntin' camps...or were, and guys fished there if near good fishin' as an added bonus at other times of year.
     
    Now, thanks to Pas fatally flawed deer program, all I hear about is empty camps and camps for sale.    On the other hand, I wish I owned about 1000acres in ohio, that could be subdivided into 5 acre lots bording public hunting grounds, like the wayne nat' forest, Shawnee state forest, saltfork...etc.    Id be a very very VERY wealthy man selling them to Pennsylvanians.


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    ChromeBandit412
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/13 18:01:38 (permalink)
    You guys made up my mind I'm hunting out of state next year. Archery is good where I'm at in 2b but come gun season them deer are spooked bad. Had fun chasing them around for the past 2 weeks nothing but yearling bucks and does.
    As far as hunting can goes I didn't even make it to bear camp up elk county this year. What a bummer I'm already looking forward to next year. Work and family I wish bear season rifle was a week earlier too close to thanksg
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    no-time
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/15 11:41:58 (permalink)
    i deer hunted out of my uncles camp in kane pa.
    since i was 15 years old, old wood & coal stove
    coleman lanterns, carried water in 5 or 6 gal. milk
    containers from nearby springs, outhouse who all
    tryed to get in first, in my early days reading the
    sports magazines next to the stove while the older
    hunters played cards .
    my uncle's had strict rules you could have your drinks
    sat. & sun. before first day but after 8 or 9 pm sun.
    no more drinks as they stated everyone in morning
    will be going in woods with a clear mind.
      after years of being there i built my own camp andto this day
    keep the same rules altho we now have tv,shower,microwave
    etc. myself i maintain a lifetime licenese but only walk the
    woods without rifle maybe to kick a deer out to the ones i
    have hunting.
      i will say anymore we do not see much deer at all anymore
    at times none , but the boys don,t complain as they are
    happy to ( be at camp), we carry this tradition from the 1940"s
    and my children and their children still claim to be the
    happiest time of life.
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/15 20:22:05 (permalink)
    no time, those are much like the stories i heard years ago.  i envied you pa. guys.  your traditions and camaraderie were unlike what we had here in the flatlands.  'heading off to camp' meant that stories would return, good stories about hunting, food, cards and weather.  you guys always did it right.  i hope the tradition continues over there. 
    #7
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/17 15:20:25 (permalink)
    Spats and buggy whips.....WF....too far gone to come back
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/17 15:55:41 (permalink)
    say it ain't so.........wf........
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/17 18:35:41 (permalink)
    Doc Trout will tell you about the camps up his way.Huge reduction of deer numbers and antler restrictions have eliminated,almost, the time honored deer drives for buck hunting; which camps are really good for. Comaraderie on the deer woods....WF....not many that I know still go , either. I am a lucky one, however.
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/17 19:08:48 (permalink)
    your opening day trout festivities leave me little doubt.  pa. guys still do it right.  someday, sigh........
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    S-10
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/17 20:09:44 (permalink)
    You also have to remember that during the hey day of deer camps most of the deer were located in the mountainous northern tier of the state and there were few good roads. It was necessary for folks from areas like
    Pittsburg and South to have a place to stay and most did stay for the first week of season. Today anyone can hunt deer with a 15 minute drive.
     
    It was also a fun week of drinking, playing cards, and in general throwing off the shackles of the hum drum civilized working life for a few days. It was fun when I did it. Now I am hunting literally the instant I close the door to the house. 
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/17 22:39:07 (permalink)
    Hunters from the 'burgh' would flock to the north to enjoy a chance at bagging a buck. Now many hunters from the north head to the 'burbs' for a chance at a 'wallhanger'.

    Back in the day, I never needed a 'deer camp', being fortunate enough to hunt within steps of my back door. Now days I believe the big city dudes can enjoy hunting much closer to home. What with, improved archery equipment and the use of ground blinds.

    Many of the hunting/fishing camps, around my old stomping grounds, have become permanent residences over the years.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
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    pheasant tail 2
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/18 20:55:18 (permalink)
    I began deer hunting out of camp in Potter County. As youngster, it was great. So many things going on, family, friends, visitors stopping by, etc. I loved hunting the big woods, it was magical. My fondest memories of deer hunting took place in Potter County. As an adult my wife and I purchased property in Washington County, and life got in the way of deer camp. Hunting out the backdoor became deer camp. Deer hunting has never been the same. We still harvest deer, but its not deer camp.  PT2 
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    opsman
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/19 21:54:32 (permalink)
    Haven't had the opportunity to weigh in on this subject with work and all, but now I have a chance to reflect.
    I've been fortunate enough (as a flatlander) to be invited into a deer camp for over forty years.  Before I ever went, my uncle would spin tales of what hunting was like in "God's Country".  My first introduction to those hills were actually with him in pursuit of smallmouth in the Allegheny.  My uncle must have seen a lot of promise in me because even though we fished together quite a bit and I could hold my own with a rod and reel, when he first took me to "deer camp" I had never hunted whitetail in my life!!
    Now mind you there were several grizzled veterans at this camp, and to a man, every one of them took the time to advise, tutor, suggest,and in other words, mold me into a hunter.  Not to mention a fairly decent Euchre player!
    I remember the first night up there, when I swear it seemed like there were ten times the stars in the sky as back home, and they all seemed within arm's reach.
    The smell of wood burners going full blaze up and down the road at the other camps.  The seemingly non-stop parade of other hunters stopping by to compare notes, reminisce and share a drink.
    There was something about going into the woods, not hearing a car or a plane, no telephones, (pre-cell phone era), and the old stand up radio in the living room tuned in to a static filled KDKA.  It was like another world.
    And the morning of the first day, everyone going about getting gear ready, breakfasts wolfed down, lunches packed, car after car going up the road loaded with hunters wanting to get to their spots early...
    Back then it was nothing to have ten or so guys in camp and nothing to see forty deer in the first day.
    But, this is a thread about deer camp and not deer abundance, even though the two are now forever entwined together, because many of those camps now stand abandoned because the forty deer a day are no longer there to greet them.
    But as I said in a different post, sometimes it's not about what you got, but about the getting.  Sure I still go out hoping to get a deer, but I have no aspiration to find a trophy buck.  I've shot eight points that were great, and doe that meant just as much to me.   I have a photo album that I've kept since day one.  Pictures for every year, whether or not I harvested a deer.   And on the back of the pictures are printed details.  Who was at camp, who was successful, when was so and so's first year at camp.  When did my sons start going with me.  What was the last year my Uncle went? What was the weather? Snow? Temp?  A living breathing history.  The grandkids were over before Thanksgiving and they were wondering what all this deer hunting was about and why grandpa and Dad and their uncles were going away for a few days.
    I pulled that album out.  And it all came back.  Forty years, like it was yesterday.  This is the year Grandpa got his first buck, Spike, North Country trail, one shot, 7:45 am.
    This is the year your Dad got his first deer.  Doe, on the ridge above the trail.  He said it ran away after he shot (even though I watched it drop dead in it's tracks through my scope.)  Also noted on the picture, how my son and I laughed and laughed after getting to the downed deer that my son swore he had held the crosshairs right on the shoulder, til we got to her and saw it was a through and through shot.........right in the ear!
    I guess my point is there's forty years of my life in that book..Forty years of memories.  Not only mine, but starting in 1992 with my oldest son's first hunt to 2005 and my youngest son's first hunt. 
    And even though we've been through the football years and track years and the computer games years and the Dad doesn't know his****from a hole in the ground years, back to the how did Dad get so smart all of a sudden years;  my sons have always asked, "Hey,are  we going to camp this year"?  And aside from a couple of years where college finals were a bit more important, or the couple years were my oldest was sitting in some god forsaken gulf on a destroyer, they have always gone with me.
    And that, to me, is deer camp.  In can be up North or in the burbs.  It's not the location on the map.  It's the location in your heart.  My uncle has been gone many years, and I look at those deer camp pictures....and it hurts...but then, not so much, because I remember the good times and what he taught me.
    Sorry for the long winded post, but I always remember one day on Pymatuning with my uncle and I asked him if you had to do away with fishing or hunting, and never ever be able to do it again, which would you give up.  Without batting an eye he replied 'fishing'  Now he being just as avid fisherman as I, made that response a shock to me, but the more I think about it...there are so many hours of fishing, so many months of fishing, but so few precious hours of deer hunting. 
    Maybe the structures we know as camps are disappearing.  Maybe it's because of the lack of deer and what the powers that be have done to the sport.  But I do know that I am forever grateful for the experiences that my deer camp gave to me and my sons, and I will continue going there til I can no longer go.

    "Fair winds and following seas..."
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    fishin coyote
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 07:41:22 (permalink)
    Opsman,
    That is probably the best post posted to any of these boards in a long time. 
    Mike

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    wayne c
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 11:30:49 (permalink)
    Yep, good post ops.
     
    Only one thing Id clear up a little.
     
    "But, this is a thread about deer camp and not deer abundance, even though the two are now forever entwined together, because many of those camps now stand abandoned because the forty deer a day are no longer there to greet them."
     
    I don't think most quit hunting, or for that matter going to camp because they don't have "forty deer a day" sightings.  Its because many of them are lucky to see ONE.  Its hard to make the long drive and do all the preparation etc that it takes just to see on a regular basis zero to three deer.  I don't have a camp.  But that's pretty much what Ive seen and heard constantly over the last 15 years or so from those that do, or did.  Just wanted to clear that up, as I think I know what you were saying there, but could've been easily taken out of context and make hunters not going to camp sound unrealistic, excessive and greedy when it comes to expectations 'deerwise'.   I don't think that's what you meant, and I also think that's far from the case.
    post edited by wayne c - 2014/12/20 11:41:05


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    opsman
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 12:22:05 (permalink)
    No, not intended to accuse anyone.  It's just sometimes expectations are no longer realistic for some people.  I was up this year probably a total of five and a half days.   Saw right around thirty deer total, and no, they weren't the same ones getting bounced back and forth, lol.
    Like I mentioned in a different post, a lot of our hunter decline in my area
     came about due to the '85 tornado that made a lot of places impossible, or near impossible to hunt.  My piece of paradise used to be a pull off and a long long trek into the ANF.  Now, with all of the dirt roads and spurs put in by the loggers and drillers it's not so remote, but some people hunt four hours the first day, road hunt the rest of the day and then go home!  Still for me, it's the best $100. I spend every year.  In fact that license could go up by half and I wouldn't have a problem, as long as the revenue was used properly.  I always tell people, if I only hunt ONE DAY, for ten hours, where else in the world am I going to get that kind of excitement, fun, entertainment, for ten dollars an hour?  Hell, take your wife out to dinner at a nice restaurant!  More than ten bucks an hour, and the deer don't keep telling you to get your elbows off of the table!   Anyway, enough of my two cents!  Merry Christmas to all of you and here's to a Happy and Healthy 2015

    "Fair winds and following seas..."
    #18
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 13:23:08 (permalink)
    "or the couple years were my oldest was sitting in some god forsaken gulf on a destroyer" ~ opsman.

    Thank your son (and your family) for his part in keeping our country free where, one can enjoy hunting and fish camps. Be they days at a cabin or hours at the campfire along a ridge.

    Not to open a 'can of worms' on this thread but, the current deer regulations has and will continue to affect the traditions of hunting the PA. Wilds. Let's hope the PGC comes to their senses so, the 'hunters of the future' can enjoy the same as, 'we have in the past'.
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/12/20 13:27:57

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #19
    wayne c
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 14:12:32 (permalink)
     
     
    As for paying more, no reason you should have to.   Most don't support a fee increase according to past legislator polls, and for good reason.  Fee increase is based on need for wildlife funding.  Not based on a whim or "opinions" on how much fun hunting is.   No way to put a price on "fun", and pgc doesn't provide that fun for us even though they can sure restrict it. lol.   As they don't own the deer herds.  And they don't own the lands that most of us hunt on.   Taking the wife out to dinner, or any other activity has no bearing at all on what the price of license is or should be.  People don't have fun at the proctologists, but they have to pay a helluva lot per visit and for some its a necessary visit.  Just as someone to manage our wildlife is 'necessary'.   On the other hand, some of the funnest things there is to do, don't cost a nickel....and I'll just leave it at that. (lol)
     
    Would I pay more if I had to?  Absolutely.   Only if I had to.    But there are many reasons currently why we shouldn't have to.    If we had to, even though there is so much hunter dissent, and even though pgc already has extreme amounts of funding and don't need it, and even though most don't support it....  Well those are the reasons I wouldn't want to pay more.  To force us to in these circumstances would put us about on par with some communist or dictator run country.
     
    I know this is a nobody going to camps thread etc...   But its all pretty entertwined.   There is no doubt that if there were better deer management in the traditional "deer camp" areas, that there also be more hunters at those camps.   As this tradition wanes more and more as more years of the same go by, it may never recover once its too late.  On a bright side, that'll no doubt mean more deer for the many remaining hunters.    I guess.
     
    Anyway, you make some valid points also, and as for the Christmas wishes, the same to you!
    post edited by wayne c - 2014/12/20 14:14:24


    #20
    opsman
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 14:33:31 (permalink)
    One  last thought, then.  I won't be baited into this.  Sadly, I guess it's why I generally read posts but seldom participate.  I wasn't comparing the "fun" of hunting and taking the wife out, only the cost for the entertainment value.  And I certainly didn't make comparisons between taking my wife out and visiting a proctologist.  That was all you buddy! 
    Originally I made what seemed to me like a logical, heart felt explanation of deer camp and what it was, is,and still could be.  Please, just leave it at that.  Those who still have that ENORMOUS ax to grind with the PGC can take it up on any of the other threads available, and actually, if you read the other ones closely, you will see how it infiltrates every thread, from this one to "Who was on the grassy knoll."   I really don't want to debate who "owns" the deer herd (never said the PGC did) as long as you realize, the public doesn't "own" the herd either.
    Guess I will wait til spring to post again when the walleye are moving at Pymie.  BTW, Rap, from a conversation we had at my work awhile ago.  Point taken, lesson learned.  Sorry to have spoken out.
    Coyote, thanks for the kind word
    Been There, appreciate the thanks, and I will let him know!
    post edited by opsman - 2014/12/20 14:38:27

    "Fair winds and following seas..."
    #21
    wayne c
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 15:17:31 (permalink)
    Lmao.  Yeah, you were really "baited" lmao.  Dramatic much?
     
    I was in no way attacking you or any of your views that actually made sense.   I was simply stating my own views, that I didn't agree with some of yours and why.  
     
    You brought up the cost.    And the fun.   I simply gave my views on them.  And I brought up my own counter rationale for my position on each.  Don't like it? boo-hoo. 
     
    And to say that I compared taking your wife out to a proctologist visit is a helluva stretch to say the least and anyone with one half of one brain cell can read that was not even close to being the case.   Was just showing fun, or no fun doesn't dictate price of necessity.
     
    Don't be so butthurt.  Although we both know you aren't.    Just another one of your aliases and clownish antics stirring a pot on a couple of other boards using your exact same talking points and playing the victim as always.  lmao.

    The heartfelt part was a nice touch this time.
     
    You talk of the glory of camp was rather touching. (if not factual)   Even though the topic was WHAT HAPPENED to the camps and the dying tradition, and that's what others here including myself have answered, sorry you didn't like the answer.  But they aren't dying because you have such a fantastic time at your camp in the past, or because you like making up stories or attacking anyone extolling perceived anti-deer plan sentiment. lol
     
    Im surprised it took you a whopping 94 posts to morph into your usual self.  Hope you have less than half the aliases you have on hpa here!   sheesh.   Last words I'll direct your way chief.  
     
    Now you have a very merry Christmas!
    post edited by wayne c - 2014/12/20 15:29:22


    #22
    opsman
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 15:39:58 (permalink)
    Just to clear the air    I post on a total of TWO sites,  the other being stictly fishing.  So much for aliases.  But that's why I post on the fishing site.  Just talk about fishing.  Period.  But I didn't want you to think I am someone that I am not.  Only trolling I do is on the north end of Pymie.  Shouldn't assume you know who I am, you know what you were taught about assuming.....
    I was going to wish you a 20pt behind every tree in 2015, but I have a feeling that you would only post a complaint about the number of trees in the state.
    Remember, don't go into a battle of wits unarmed!

    "Fair winds and following seas..."
    #23
    wayne c
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 15:53:26 (permalink)
    Not to open a 'can of worms' on this thread but, the current deer regulations has and will continue to affect the traditions of hunting the PA. Wilds. Let's hope the PGC comes to their senses so, the 'hunters of the future' can enjoy the same as, 'we have in the past'.

     
    Agree beentheredone.   According to a pgc survey, only twenty some percent of hunters were "satisfied" with the number of antlerled deer they had seen.  And only slightly more were satisfied with antlerless.    And yes, that survey of hunters would also include hunters who hunted from "camps".   Now assuming that is accurate, if well over 70% of hunters are not satisfied then it doesn't take a genius to figure out it just might have something to do with why we have had emptying hunting camps.
     
      Currently a good friend is looking for some land to put a small cabin on bordering large tract of public land in Ohio.    Real shame he feels the need to go that far for quality hunting.   But I wont dissuade him, I wish him luck.   I intend to help in building etc.  if/when hes lucky enough to find that perfect spot.  Don't want to "free-load" lol.  
     
    The answer to pa is really quite simple.   If the hunting in Pa were close to that of say, ohio, Id buy a camp myself in a heartbeat.  Less than that. lol  Not too interested in just sitting around playing cards and drinking as some do at camp.  Our group wants to hunt.   The hunting we have currently is better than most areas of the state we could drive to than to have a camp in the "big woods" areas.  That isn't saying much though.
     
    Have worked with guys that hunt ohio and stay at campground in tents.   They say the lots are full of mostly Pa license plates.   
    post edited by wayne c - 2014/12/20 16:04:33


    #24
    fishin coyote
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/20 17:15:12 (permalink)
    I'm about to hammer this Thread

    Nothing is Free!!
    Reward equals Effort


    #25
    no-time
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/22 10:42:22 (permalink)
    god bless all and now you know the rest
    of the story
     merry christmas & happy safe new years to all
    #26
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/22 17:02:26 (permalink)
    fishin coyote
    Opsman,
    That is probably the best post posted to any of these boards in a long time. 
    Mike


    i couldn't agree more.   one thing for sure, john writes as he lives.....with his heart.   thanks for bringing some polish to this.
    #27
    opsman
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/22 18:37:16 (permalink)
    Thanks Rich, and Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to you and your family

    "Fair winds and following seas..."
    #28
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    Re: deer camps? 2014/12/22 22:38:02 (permalink)
    same to you and your clan, john.  thanks for keeping such a great part of our past alive.  with some free time on your hands this coming year, i hope you consider writing more.
    #29
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