Finally a shooter buck =

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Dr. Trout
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2014/10/25 19:47:21 (permalink)

Finally a shooter buck =

well at least in my neck of the woods for me anyhow...  LOL
 
 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/25 19:52:14
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    dpms
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/25 20:39:48 (permalink)
    A shooter buck is different for everyone. Best of luck getting him in your sights, Doc!

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #2
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/25 20:46:30 (permalink)
    Here on the home the dang deer are not showing up on until way after it's too dark to even think about shooting.
     
    Hopefully they'll start moving earlier now that maybe the bucks are looking for does ?????
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    BloodyHand
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/25 21:33:29 (permalink)
    Dr. Trout
    Here on the home the dang deer are not showing up on until way after it's too dark to even think about shooting.
     
    Hopefully they'll start moving earlier now that maybe the bucks are looking for does ?????




    Yep
    I'd take him just to remove his genes from the pool.
     
    BH
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    Claypool313
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/25 21:41:38 (permalink)
    Did ya shoot it?
    #5
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/25 22:09:04 (permalink)
    not at 830 at night  LOL
     
    as for genes...LOL ...  better food sources would probably help his antler growth more than any gene problem .. field corn and apples only lasts for so long ever year ...
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/25 22:12:06
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/25 22:20:45 (permalink)
    You got that right Doc........

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #7
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 06:26:27 (permalink)
    Those Antler Restrictions really are working.  Working up here also, my Granddaughter shot her second spike in two years yesterday with the crossgun. She is happy. I saw a 4point that would fit inside yours.
    Friday evening I saw a 18-19" six point counting the brows tending a doe. Beautiful buck but no points. I saw him a mile and half away in August so knew he was in the area. I'am going to saw a point off one of my other racks and carry it and a tube of glue with me from now on.
    post edited by S-10 - 2014/10/26 06:37:21
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    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 08:15:01 (permalink)
    I like the glue idea a LOT !!!!!!
     
    Gorilla glue, non-expanding,  would be my recommendation !!! 
    #9
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 09:50:00 (permalink)
    S-10
    Those Antler Restrictions really are working.  Working up here also, my Granddaughter shot her second spike in two years yesterday with the crossgun. She is happy. I saw a 4point that would fit inside yours.Friday evening I saw a 18-19" six point counting the brows tending a doe. Beautiful buck but no points. I saw him a mile and half away in August so knew he was in the area. I'am going to saw a point off one of my other racks and carry it and a tube of glue with me from now on.


    Working really well in my little piece of PA. Heaven. Now, if the part about taking more doe to make room for bigger/better bucks and creating a dominate gene pool stands true. I'm in for a real treat cause there ain't ANY doe so, I'm really excited about seeing all the trophy bucks. By-the-way, what was the expected time frame the PGC said all this would happen? Being a proud owner of a lifetime hunting license; I sure hope it happens soon.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #10
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 10:40:42 (permalink)
    You missed the start. Per PGC Press Release 093 2002--- QUOTE: Rewards will come in the fall of 2003 with MORE and LARGER bucks.
     
    PGC Press Release 019 01 QUOTE: Make PA deer hunting the best in the nation.
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    Claypool313
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 10:40:57 (permalink)
    Not to highjack your thread, but all bucks/no does is very familiar to me this year.  I've had two cameras running on our property since March, that I've also hunted for the last 24 years and very heavily the last 8 years.  So I feel somewhat qualified making herd health estimations based on long-term camera results.  One camera watches a food plot, the other a travel route.  In the spring they both watched salt blocks.  It's difficult to count the does, but you can get a general feel with frequency and tendencies.  I checked both cams last weekend which had a combined 32 days between them.  I counted (6) different scrub bucks that appeared more than once each.  I counted (6) different 2.5 yr old bucks too.  That's (12) different bucks.  My highest guess at the number of does, including fawns is 6 or 7.  A ratio of approximately 2:1 does not sound healthy to me.  It was the toughest of winters so I'm not surprised there are no 3.5 yr old bucks.  I honestly thought the winter would be rougher on the bucks.  There is also a highway cutting across the property and I know of zero roadkills so far.  So what's the cause?  Overharvest of does?  We shot 3 bucks and 2 does that I know of last year.  Neighbors shooting all does, maybe?  I dunno.
    #12
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 15:16:10 (permalink)
    S-10
    You missed the start. Per PGC Press Release 093 2002--- QUOTE: Rewards will come in the fall of 2003 with MORE and LARGER bucks.
     
    PGC Press Release 019 01 QUOTE: Make PA deer hunting the best in the nation.




     
    Thanks S-10 I guess I was sleeping in a tree stand when that press release came out.
     
    Claypool313
    Not to highjack your thread, but all bucks/no does is very familiar to me this year.  I've had two cameras running on our property since March, that I've also hunted for the last 24 years and very heavily the last 8 years.  So I feel somewhat qualified making herd health estimations based on long-term camera results.  One camera watches a food plot, the other a travel route.  In the spring they both watched salt blocks.  It's difficult to count the does, but you can get a general feel with frequency and tendencies.  I checked both cams last weekend which had a combined 32 days between them.  I counted (6) different scrub bucks that appeared more than once each.  I counted (6) different 2.5 yr old bucks too.  That's (12) different bucks.  My highest guess at the number of does, including fawns is 6 or 7.  A ratio of approximately 2:1 does not sound healthy to me.  It was the toughest of winters so I'm not surprised there are no 3.5 yr old bucks.  I honestly thought the winter would be rougher on the bucks.  There is also a highway cutting across the property and I know of zero roadkills so far.  So what's the cause?  Overharvest of does?  We shot 3 bucks and 2 does that I know of last year.  Neighbors shooting all does, maybe?  I dunno.




     
    I'll take your observations and theory over any PGC biologist anytime.  At least your getting out in the field and not spinning and twisting numbers sitting at a computer eight hours a day.  (I think they work eight hours! (don't they?))
     
    My opinion is based on field observations as well.  Not seeing but, one or two deer visiting my fields each night during the year compared to eight to ten deer three years ago.  I also have pictures taken over the past years; not by field cameras but, by hand held cameras. Yearlings romping in my yard just off of my front porch was not uncommon this time of year.  Doe, along with their young eating my fresh mowed lawn just off my back deck.  I have pictures of deer feeding on the grass I would expose with my snow blower after a heavy snow.  Now I have to look just to find hoof prints in the snow and hope there may be pictures of deer on the field cams, I purchased this time last year.
     
    Seeing is believing and seeing the results of the deer management plan is making me wish for the good ole days.  That was the day the PGC had fewer biologist and more enforcement officers.  Today it seems the PGC has a special biologist for every species of animal in PA.
     
    I still feel the purpose of the deer management plans were bogus and have nothing to do with enhancing the whitetail in PA.  I think there was, and still remains, a select group of people that have high hopes of increasing the herds of other cervids and it is those (not bucks but, bulls) they wish to make room for in the 'Pennsylvania Wilds'.  
     
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
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    #13
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 16:48:26 (permalink)
    I still get such a kick out of those complaining.. for every one of those I hear at least the same number raving about the bigger bucks they see and even more doe  seen the  past 2 years ..
     
    but again it all depends on the area one is in...
     
     
    once again my favorite story from 3 years ago....
     
    husband .. complaining about see NO DEER all day on opening day .....
     
    But the guy was honest ...
     
     
    his wife was posted about 300 yards away around "the bend" and saw 20 ....
     
    here at home this month ...
     
    I'm getting pictures of deer everyday, but yes mostly at night...
     
    the neighbor who has the apples trees is getting NOTHING on his cameras...
     
    location, location,  location,    ....
     
     
    #14
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 18:48:28 (permalink)
    I don't pay a whole lot of attention to opinions or claims. I do however pay a lot of attention to facts and numbers.
     
    5 year average buck kill prior to AR/HR==  191,792
     
    Last five years average buck kill ======  125,388
     
    Difference ==  minus 66,404 or 35% reduction
     
    Having said that, most of the deer moved out of the apples and into the oak three weeks ago.
    #15
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 18:56:30 (permalink)
    Yeah Doc. I get a lot of sh1tz and giggles from those who can't see the forest from the trees.  They are just like the people that can not see the story from the words.  What part of 'the deer do not exist' in this location, location, location as they once did do you not understand?  
     
    Speaking of favorite stories; I like the one about the hunter asking what would happen when the deer herds get thinned down to the point hunters will give up or go to other states.  "We may lose a few hunters" came the reply "but, we believe, like predators moving with the food supply so, will the hunters go to the deer"  So, if I were you Doc., I'd keep your location, location, location, a secrete if you get my point. Like the old saying goes 'Here Today; Gone Tomorrow'
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/10/26 20:58:44

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #16
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 20:23:10 (permalink)
    My location is State games and state forest .. open to the public hunting... and I have never kept that a secret for over 10 years now... plus even the PGC states 2F is not suffering that much  from herd reduction ....
     
     
    5 year average buck kill prior to AR/HR==  191,792
     
    Last five years average buck kill ======  125,388
     
    Difference ==  minus 66,404 or 35% reduction
     
    Having said that, most of the deer moved out of the apples and into the oak three weeks ago.

     
    I wonder if antler restrictions has anything to do with the 35% reduction in harvest numbers ... comparing years with ARs to years when they were not in effect...   LOL...LOL.
     
    Again====  location, location, location .. there is not an oak trees with 5 miles of this area... nearest Oaks are over at Clear Creek State Forest  (9miles away) or into the Brockway/Brookville area (9 miles away)...
     
    Thursday I could not walk 50 yards without walking on acorns over at CCSF...
     
    right now around here ... No more apples and no corn fields and no acorns... deer will have a hard time building fat reserves for winter here...
     
    But they do have TONS of those protein rich  ferns....
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/26 20:49:52
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 20:49:33 (permalink)
    Again====  location, location, location .. there is not an oak trees with 5 miles of this area... nearest Oaks are over at Clear Creek State Forest  (9miles away) or into the Brockway/Brookville area (9 miles away)...
     
    Say ain't that the area you shot your recent doe?  I guess there is truth in the story about what happens when the deer diminish in one area, the predators will move.  Or is it you don't shoot the doe in your area?  Just askin..............

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #18
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 20:56:59 (permalink)
    The does have gone nocturnal here at home, so I figured my best chance for one in the special senior hunt with a rifle was over at clear creek... and yes I shoot one here almost every year plus some years the second comes from clear creek because I have 2 DMAPs for there every year...
     
    before the heart troubles (2007) I hunted there ALOT... now I stay close to home most of the time, I am within walkie talkie distance of the wife staying here.. over there .. no cell service to reach home if I had a problem... honestly... I truly miss hunting there...
     
    If it were closer I would spend more time there ... especially if I were that interested in shooting bucks too... the friend that works there gets a doe and a buck there almost every year since 2000.
     
    In fact there are 3 antlerless harvests pics on my message board from there this year already...
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/26 21:01:57
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 21:08:25 (permalink)
    Enjoyed the chat Doc. and I wish you luck in getting a trophy of a lifetime.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #20
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/26 21:33:43 (permalink)
    Doc-- AR has NOTHING to do with the reduction in buck harvest after the first couple years. The PGC says that themselves. What AR is supposed to do is hurt the harvest the first year and after that half the bucks just move up a year. Of course HR is another matter. it was designed to reduce the deer herd. The promise was your SHOOTER BUCK would be a big 8 or 10 point because all those ferns would turn into good mast. Apparently they never heard of soil acidity and thought we were all a bunch of dumb hunters..  Now they are doing a five year study to see  why what all the dumb hunters told them in 2000 was more accurate than the experts claims.
    #21
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 00:07:05 (permalink)
    as you and I have debate 1,000 times... you remember him saying more and bigger bucks..
     
    I remember just the bigger part....
     
    My "shooter buck" IS BIGGER than most of the bucks around here prior to 2001.....
     
    My buck last year was one of the BIGGEST buck I ever saw in my area and that goes back to 1960s when I travelled this area a lot more than I do now
     
    I remember TONS of spikes, small 4s, and small 6s....   I still have not heard of a SINGLE 10 pointer ever taken around here and very few big 8 pointers....
     
    now 7 and 8 pointers are the average buck harvested around here...
    but once AGAIN ..location, location, location
     
    BTW... I NEVER remember seeing first day or those 1st week buck photos in the local papers being what is in there now every year... there was always a few big ones and guys did not mind posting those spikes, 4s and 6s ..
     
    now ===== NO ONE (except youths) put those type photos in the paper 
    #22
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 06:02:25 (permalink)
    Go look up the PGC press release I just Quoted a few posts above. I can Quote a couple more if you want.
     
    As for no one but youths posting photos of spikes and fours-----they would get busted if they did.
     
    As for location, location, I agree, the big woods never produced the quality bucks the farmland will. That was he reason for the different AR's. However, of the last dozen bucks I've killed since AR only 2 have been larger than the average of the ones I killed the dozen years before AR. Since AR I see on average 1.2 more bucks with 8 or more points than I did before AR as prorated over a 6 week season hunting 5.5 hours a day. In exchange for that I average seeing 11.5 fewer bucks over the same time frame due to HR.
    #23
    DarDys
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 10:07:35 (permalink)
    Ain't data a beatch?

    I have yet to kill a buck since AR that is larger than any of the AR legal bucks that I killed before AR.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #24
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 10:30:37 (permalink)
    what I really meant was adults do not post any photos in the paper of those "scrubs" (basket) bucks many of us grew up hunting and going to school to boast about..
     
    I was totally wrong on the spikes and 4 points for adults ,
     
    but even with that said, around here the local paper has lots of photos of kids shooting bigger bucks than I ever did as a youth....  by far =  BIGGER .....
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/27 10:32:23
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    Esox_Hunter
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 12:41:31 (permalink)
    While we're at it, let's have some more fun with numbers...
     
    In 2000, roughly 203,000 bucks were killed in PA.  Pre-AR the buck harvest consisted of approximately 80% yearling bucks.  From this, you can say that in 2000 roughly 40,600 2.5+ YO bucks were harvested.
     
    Now let's look at the 2013 harvest, which states that we killed 134,000 bucks in PA.  According to the PGC, the 2013 buck harvest consisted of 47% yearling bucks.  So that means that roughly 71,000 2.5+ YO bucks were harvested. 
     
    So when you take a look at the numbers above, it's not out of line to say that we have more bigger bucks (not more and bigger) than we did in 2000.  That certainly doesn't mean we have more "giant" bucks, but it does tell us that on average a legal buck killed today will be bigger than in years past.  It would probably be more appropriate to say older rather than bigger, but since a near direct relationship exists between size and age, I guess I'll let it slide.  It is important to remember that this is statewide data, not your respective hunting property data.    
    #26
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 12:42:26 (permalink)
    Maybe their hunting better ground, private farms, controlling their own deer herd, shooting over food plots, hunting harder than you,  better shots, more particular than we were (my grandson already is).
     
    The papers have always had photos of good bucks, even before I was old enough to hunt. My barber had a mount of a 27 point killed locally in the 1940's.
     
    NOTE: The year BEFORE AR/HR was still the best ever in PA for both number bucks taken and number of bucks put in the Penna record book the last I looked and counted them up in 2012. I'll have to update after this season is over.
    #27
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 12:52:48 (permalink)

    The papers have always had photos of good bucks, even before I was old enough to hunt.

     
    I never said that there were never big bucks harvested in Pa....
     
    but one would have to appear foolish to me to say that the papers don't have a lot more of those "bigger" bucks now than back in the day...
     
    I NEVER remember seeing teenagers and youth in picture with as many 8s and 10s like I do now....
     
    Have you looked at Pittsburgh papers .... they hardly ever had photos of big bucks taken in that area, let alone the trophies that area is producing now...
     
    but we continue to disagree and that's okay I guess.......
    #28
    S-10
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 12:53:26 (permalink)
    PGC Press Release 111-01 and 080-01 -----Alt wanted to reduce the doe population to make room for the ADDITIONAL 100,000 BUCKS he was going to add to the herd.
    #29
    Esox_Hunter
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    Re: Finally a shooter buck = 2014/10/27 13:04:41 (permalink)
    Quite frankly, I don't see any reason to dwell on a 13 year old statement from a PGC official who is no longer employed by the Commonwealth.  I'd prefer to look at the data and let that tell us what is going on with deer hunting in PA.
    #30
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