And so it continues...

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dpms
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/09/29 10:16:22 (permalink)
The last time we talked about it, and I pointed out the changes in Ohio that are bringing it closer to pa deer management, you stated that you were seeing some of negative effects already.

Namely, eliminating check stations, going to wmus and increasing the emphasis on doe harvest. Heard a lot of talk on this board over the years about driving out of pa to go hunt Ohio because they know how to do it right. Why are they changing things up then?
post edited by dpms - 2014/09/29 10:29:18

My rifle is a black rifle
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/09/29 12:11:15 (permalink)
Other states are following PA. with deer management plans??

Back in the day when the PGC was holding their public meetings regarding the 'save the trees' campaign I heard all to often, "this is how other states do it".

Immediately following (if not sooner) the new 'save the trees' plan being implemented we had new 'WMU(s). However, these WMU(s) did not (still don't) coincide with the original 'save the trees' campaign. Of course much smoke blowing followed with the PGC trying to cover their 'donkey' when they were called on the carpet. "THIS IS HOW OTHER STATES DO IT" we would hear.(lol)

Of special interest to me was the drastic increase in the Elk range, the sizable increase with antlerless license, and the combination of hunting doe and buck togeather. Least not forget, antlerless season increased from 3 days to 11 days of hunting. (hmmm). Oh silly me, I forgot, we're saving the trees AND "other states do it this way". I can't forget the one little change allowing the holder of multiple anterless tags to 'harvest' multiple anterless deer, as fast as they can reload. Do they do that in other states too??

Anyway, I am certain, the main reason for all these radical changes is about the Elk and nothing to do with the trees.

There's plenty of scientific studies conducted by the overstaff of biologist within the PGC. Most of these studies proved the PGC has wasted a lot of money for nothing.

It's time for the PGC to get back to enforcement and leave Mother Nature alone.

THAT'S HOW OTHER STATES DO IT!!
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/09/29 12:19:02

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#32
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/09/29 13:03:03 (permalink)
@dpms...........

Seriously? ......... The changes in Ohio you speak of are subtle and have been implemented by other states long before PA.

PA hunters have been handed so much baloney about managing deer for so long, it's become a political issue. That means politicians fear losing votes from hunters because we number in the million.

Law suits have been filed by hunting clubs and other organizations to draw attention to the situation in PA.

The reasons for the present deer management in PA. is bogus. You see, I say 'REASONS' because that's what the PGC has to do.... TELL PROPLE WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR!! The PGC has told so many people; so many things, they forget who they told what, when.

P. T. Barnum of ' The Barnum & Bailry Circus' is credited with saying " There is a sucker born every minute". The PGC, being the circus it is, certainly knows there is enough suckers amongst the ranks of the PA. hunters.

Sorry sir, I disagree with you when referring to other states 'following' PA. in game management. Unless those states intend to 'harvest' off all the whitetail in their state.

PA lost their leadership qualities long ago!!

Respectfully yours;

BTDT.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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#33
wayne c
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 16:29:25 (permalink)
lmao.   Comical seeing dpms grasp at straws to support his views on deer management.  Fact of the matter is, very very few states have embraced the extreme measures pa has gone towards in becoming environmentally extreme in regards to deer management.   Basic similarities exist in all deer management of course, and many basics are shared by many states and have been long before the great pioneering "gary alt" lmao....but as dpms knows yet chooses to ignore, the issues most have the largest problem with and creating the greatest amount of dissent are pretty much things specific to Pa and a few other states with similar political agendas in  play.  Namely the extreme underlying goals, and the unsupportable deer reductions occurring while utilizing proven unsupportable "science".  
 
 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/01 16:33:16


#34
wayne c
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 16:35:47 (permalink)
"Namely, eliminating check stations"
 
 
And how many other states DONT have check stations?   But no...   Ohio has to be likened to "Pa" as if they are now kindred spirits managementwise...
lmao
 
 
 "increasing the emphasis on doe harvest"
 
Really?   --  Ohio dnr: "Deer bag limits reflect the reduction in the deer population in many counties as numbers continue to move closer to target levels. Bag limits were reduced in 44 counties, increased in five counties and 39 counties stayed the same as last season. Antlerless tags are eliminated in some counties as deer populations approach target levels. "
 
I also believe in some areas some season were done away with.  Anyway, you get the point.
 
I think I already pointed out to you dpms not all that long ago, but you choose, just like your other habitat warrior type pfsc allies you often choose to grab ahold of something and not let go whenever its convenient to you agenda even when you know what you state is shown to be inaccurate.
 
 
http://ohiodnr.gov/news/post/ohio-wildlife-council-approves-2014-2015-hunting-regulations
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/01 16:45:57


#35
dpms
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 17:33:14 (permalink)
Carry on fellas. All I am relaying are the sentiments of hunters in the states some of you claim know how to do it right. Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Indiana, all states where hunters are starting to sound very much like the hunters in Pennsylvania after our deer plan took a different direction. 
 
Wayne, who I am surprised took so long to respond with the usual talking points, spoke often of the many things Ohio did right in the past. Most have been altered and it's plan is swinging, as many other states are, towards a plan similar to PA. 
 
Of course you are all free to disagree with me and the tens of thousands of others hunters who are now crying the blues in all of those states that "know how to manage deer".  Just read a rather lengthy article about Illinois. Sounded exactly like I was reading something from Pa. 
 
Its hunting season. Time to go look for those deer that don't exist. Actually, there is one less for yinz guys. 
 
And for the record, I am increasingly unsupportive of our plan. Point being made was other states moving our direction which, in some ways, may not be a good thing. Some of y'all are quick to jump to conclusions since I happen to actually talk to some folks who belong to the PFSC, which I don't belong to.  Am I a eco-weanie because my best friends uncles, daughter's niece is one, lol. 
post edited by dpms - 2014/10/01 17:53:55

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#36
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 18:15:50 (permalink)
Of course you realize that I hunt both Illinois and Ohio along with PA so I am in a position to compare all three. Pa still ranks #3 of the three.
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dpms
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 18:51:40 (permalink)
S-10
Of course you realize that I hunt both Illinois and Ohio along with PA so I am in a position to compare all three. Pa still ranks #3 of the three.




Sounds good. No experience in Illinois but I did hunt Ohio for a week a few years ago. No doubt, I would rather spend a week in Ohio than a week in Pa hunting deer.  I saw a ton of deer. 
post edited by dpms - 2014/10/01 19:06:50

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#38
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 22:01:23 (permalink)
Does Ohio have a special WMU set up for Elk........... Yet?

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Dr. Trout
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/01 23:09:19 (permalink)
 That means politicians fear losing votes from hunters because we number in the million.

 
Are you kidding ????  we no long have near the "clout" we once had,...
 
mainly because we can not even  get a majority of hunters agreeing on anything .... if hunters are split why would any one seeking office listen to just one side or the other of hunters opinions ??
 
my local politicians listen to the hunters and realize we can not agree so then they vote or support what the majority of non-hunters feel  (ALL the other local registered voters) ... those are the folks keeping them in office...not local hunters...... and they realize that very much.
 
Sunday hunting being the perfect example of that.........
 
also ... that's part of the reason all this tourism BS is so popular in this area and hunting is not even mentioned in their brochures as a local sport or activity..........
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 01:03:46 (permalink)
No, not crazy Doc...........

Keeping the rank and file fighting among themselves has been a trick used by leaders in goverment and/or industry since the creation of dirt.

The biggest problem is the clubs, organizations and, special interest groups. These groups are made from people having the same interest such as hunting. Some of the groups claim they represent anyone that hunts, traps, fishes, etc. Some of these groups lay claim to large memberships numbering into the thousands or more. These groups pull political strings by making campaign contributions and/or endorsing a canidate.
Tell me again there's no politics being played in PA. hunting.

Because the rank and file fights among themselves multiple clubs/organizations are formed, each with their own agenda and each wanting a politician who will support that agenda.

You Doc seem irrate over the lose of Sunday hunting. Do I really need to tell you what organization shot that idea out of the air? Do you have any idea how many members of that organization are hunters? Do you really believe all hunters wanted Sunday hunting?

Do you still feel the hunter has no political pull in PA.?

You see Doc we have people looking after our interest in hunting. Trouble is, I'm not interested in what they are looking at.

Good luck Sat.; may your arrow fly straight, your shot be clean and, the kill be quick. Bag a big one!!

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#41
dpms
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 08:59:47 (permalink)
Hunters opinions do not carry as much weight among our elected officials as they once did. Pa is going the way of the other liberal leaning states with each passing year.

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#42
DarDys
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 09:13:18 (permalink)
With the closing of hunting season in certain areas of the northeast until they catch the fugitive accused of killing the trooper, the next question becomes -- will antlerless season be extended until Easter or will CWD be discovered there to up the number of tags in order to make up for lost kills?

FYI -- that was sarcasm.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#43
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 12:05:08 (permalink)
dpms
Hunters opinions do not carry as much weight among our elected officials as they once did. Pa is going the way of the other liberal leaning states with each passing year.


If your a politician here, would you worry about what a small group of voters wanted over there? But, what do you do if the voters want the samething here as they do there? Now we have more then one group of voters having the same agenda. Maybe just in your political district causing you headaches; maybe statewide causing many headaches.

The point being, the voters (people who vote), having the same agenda be they, many small groups or, one statewide group, THEY HAVE THE SAME AGENDA.

Now, take into consideration the element of time. The successful organizations work around the clock 24/7 52 weeks a year pushing their agenda and, they don't wait til the last minute to start.

We hunters have organizations pushing agendas also. The east has their agenda, central has their agenda as does the west. Now, break those areas into north and south and we have even more agendas.

As for time, well between the end and start of hunting season there are other matters of interest, requiring attention so, no time for concerns about hunting.

Other matters of interest?...... Let's say, you are a business owner who's lively hood depends on tourism. More interesting, you sell sporting goods for hunting and fishing. Where would you most likely give support; to hunting organizations headed in all directions and their membership showing concern only, during hunting season? Or, will you support the organizations having a large active membership working 24/7/52 for the same agenda?

As an example let's just say the organization PROMOTES TOURISM.

Least not forget we all have our own interest and wants. Just because I hunt doesn't mean I want what you want. Just because I hunt does not mean I fully support the agenda of some hunting organization. I may even support other organizations that oppose the agendas of the hunting organizations. Agendas like Sunday hunting.

JUST KEEP THE RANK AND FILE FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/10/02 12:09:43

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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#44
Dr. Trout
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 19:15:34 (permalink)
I am on record as being against Sunday hunting and yes the PFSC was against that ...
 
but my local rep and senator could care less what the PFSC or any other group supports, especially if those groups do not vote in their districts.
 
 
Mine told me the hunters they spoke to were generally NOT in favor of SH, due to a fear of lands getting posted in this area that are currently open with permission.  Add in land owners, farmers, the Treasure Lake residents (active voters) and a large group of private citizens all against it and puff, they too do not want it...
 
My main reason for replying to this was simply to state that hunters DO NOT have near the "clout" they once had...
 
Are politics in hunting and fishing decisions.. sure has ALWAYS been that way... we just had more pull with those political decisions... now we have very little as hunters... I find I have more input if I talk to them about hunting and fishing but NOT try to come at it as JUST a hunter or angler.. I try to use other supporting factors...
 
I did not even mention current deer populations or the possibility of increased harvest for being against Sunday hunting... I voiced my opinions on wanting a day that I did not have to worry about hunters within a 1/4 mile of my house and pastures or even those wanting to hunt 50 yards away .... would it really increase any local economies, etc
 
I also mentioned many times that there were already hunting opportunities on a Sunday if a person really want to hunt something.
 
 
I have not talked to either about this "permit" to use SGL for other than hunting... I am against it ... but have not figured out that non-hunting reason ....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/02 19:28:19
#45
wayne c
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 19:28:19 (permalink)
You have some valid points dpms.  There are some influences in some states that are effecting management just like here in Pa.   And changes are being made in some states for some of the same reason without a doubt.   I wouldn't lump every state in with that that happens to raise the antlerless allocation,etc.   And I wouldn't say that most of the few that fit the bill are doing so because they "see the light" and want to follow Pa's "superior science".  lol.    Its more like, alternate agenda pushers have become emboldened seeing that Pa has managed to circumvent the will of hunters successfully for some time without total political fallout destroying the management agency.
 
On the other hand, I don't think that every state that raises their allocation for a coupla years (or makes other modest adjustments from time to time) to get control of a growing deer herd is going the Pennsyltucky liberal envir-ecoweenie deer management route.
 
I would say the jury is out on Ohio, they have a long way to go before they screw things up as royally as Pa.   But I would point to Wisconsin.  I haven't looked into their dealings very recently, but for a few years there it seems many of the same "players" and agendas were in play there.   And it was nothing but politics and nothing but dirty, at least looking at it from a hunters perspective.    Don't know how or if any direction changes have been made there since Id last read up on, but know there were groups pulling both ways on the "more deer"  "less deer" front.   And hunters were very upset, and from what Id been seeing, rightfully so. 
 
I took you as saying look; some of these other states are emulating Pa because Pa is doing things right and they have taken notice.   Also this in some way gives Pa's direction much more credibility.  
 
With that sentiment, I couldn't disagree more.
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/02 19:36:42


#46
Dr. Trout
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 19:34:31 (permalink)
.. Let's say, you are a business owner who's lively hood depends on tourism. More interesting, you sell sporting goods for hunting and fishing. Where would you most likely give support; to hunting organizations headed in all directions and their membership showing concern only, during hunting season? Or, will you support the organizations having a large active membership working 24/7/52 for the same agenda?

 
As a business owner IMHO it really would not matter who I support or what side I am on.. in the end I will be only ONE VOTE for the candidate I chose... If my neighbor and the guy across the street do not agree with what I am supporting and they vote.. guess what I just got out voted by one vote and the candidate they support may just win by that one vote..
 
remember each of us is really only worth ONE vote ... What the PFSC (for example) feels is not going to effect Senator Scarnati's vote when I tell him I will vote against him for such and such a vote... the PFSC can not vote for him....
 
If 20 of my friends want Sunday hunting and stand there and talk to the senator with me saying they want it, but when he checks he sees none of them are voters and I am .. who do you think he is going to listen to from that meeting... ???
 
most guys I talk to are NOT VOTERS... it's almost unbelievable to me .... they talk and **** but do not vote.... "what is my one vote going to prove ??" I hear it time and time again..
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/10/02 19:39:06
#47
wayne c
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 19:41:43 (permalink)
Who cares about PFSC voting??   They need to go out to California to live and vote.   I hear they need a few more liberals out that way. lol.
 
Kinda surprised they still exist.  Thought after the previous money issues, dwindling membership, and multiple fairly recent huge credibility hits, they kinda fell off the map.  
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/02 19:46:11


#48
Dr. Trout
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/02 19:46:57 (permalink)
I was just using that as an example as done in replies above...
as mentioned above they can not even get their members to agree with any type of a major majority.... always right around 52/48 on resolutions.. that's part of the reason I decided I was wasting money on membership dues......
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/03 01:43:36 (permalink)
Doc you are absolutely correct about being but, one vote. Like you, I am but, one vote. Now lets say we are both business owners having the same interest and looking for support from our legislator(s). Not much chance of two votes getting anything from a politician that's for sure. Now, let's look at all the business owners in a given political district and see if they might share in the same interest. Perhaps only a few show support in the beginning but, as more concerns are discussed, more business owners 'jump on the band wagon'. Ok, we now have enough voters to keep the attention of our legislator but, he is just 'one vote' in the Senate or House. Well, we need more than "one vote" to have our concerns addressed and laws passed so, off we go canvassing other political districts seeking business owners who share our interest and concerns. Eventually, we cover all the districts and build enough votes to capture the attention of the majority of the law makers. Bingo, we get laws passed addressing our interest as well as the interest of all business owners across the state. Dang, this ain't cheap for you and me so we charter a organization and charge dues to offset the cost of operation. What....... wait...... now there's a organization, statewide consisting of local chapters garnishing a whole bunch of attention getting votes. These votes will hold the attention of our legislators as long as the organizations' members remain focused on the issues at hand. You know the old saying "United We Stand; Divided We Fall".

Here's the touchy part, 'standing together'. Let's say you sell hunting equipment for a living and I sell bicycles. Our common interest is creating more business for our store because the local economy is in the toilet. We both know that any money coming into our store must come from people outside of
our area. We need help from our legislators to promote tourism which will boost the sale of our products and goods. You, selling hunting equipment, want to see promotions for hunting and I want to see action that will increase bicycle sales. Uh-oh our politician(s) are now between a rock and a hard place. There is other active organizations having lots of voting members and or money. PITA and THE HUMANE SOCIETY ain't gonna like the hunting thing sooo, you lose the hunting promo thing. More emphasis will be given to business areas that fluffs the political feather like, laws giving a bicyclist the right to ride down the center of a busy highway. This I like because I just sold a bike to a guy who thinks he's now superman and can't be run over.

You are only one vote and I am one vote and all those persons having the same interest as us is one vote and UNITED WE STAND; DIVIDED WE FALL.

The new tourism industry didn't happen overnight and may have been the brainchild of one voter but, it took many voters having the same interest, a long time to get-r-done.

PS. As for the PFSC; keep the rank and file fighting amongst themselves.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#50
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/03 05:44:20 (permalink)
You may be only one vote but the politicians spend billions of dollars trying to get it so to them every one is important. Bloomberg alone is spending 50 million trying to get the votes to take away our guns. Hunters and gun owners have enough potential voters sitting on the sidelines to run the liberals right out of office if they only realized it and used their one "VOTE."
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/03 07:52:26 (permalink)
AMEN!!!!
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/10/03 07:53:33

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#52
dpms
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/07 07:00:10 (permalink)
Latest issue of Bowhunter magazine. Editor, Curt Wells, talks candidly about hunters over harvesting does in many areas and game agencies being more than willing to give them the tools to do it across this country.

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wayne c
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/07 18:21:05 (permalink)
 
 
Its no secret that its occurring in at least a few states across the country.  And in particular some that have "ties" and utilize concerted efforts.   But talk is cheap.  Sportsmen taking political actions is what is needed.  Unfortunately as a group we are pretty apathetic when it comes to being politically active.
 
 
Mr Wells seems to be concerned, and with his position would hold a bit of a leg up when it comes to actively pursuing this issue.  Yet we have one article in god knows how long.   I would hope that he is doing more than that behind the scenes at least.
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/07 18:23:27


#54
workcanwait....
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/09 23:23:13 (permalink)
Alright I came back to this...sorry in advance.
I stick to the fact that I enjoy any time spent in the PA woods its not a perfect world but I have hunted worse.
After growing up in NEPA and hunting deer during firearms season only 1999-2005 I lived in INDIANA 20 miles from Lafayette in the middle of the neverending cornfields-woodlots and creek bottoms.
Its where I started archery hunting and learned a lot about deer and how they act when they are not being chased around the bigwoods by millions of rifle toting PA boys.
But the attitude towards and the hunting was very different than PA.
I had permission to hunt a handful of properties farmers hate deer there and farmers seemed to run the state.On top of that a lot of anti's around.
Deer were scarce most places but there were pockets of good deer numbers mostly around creek bed areas.
As soon as I could I moved back to PA and never went back...
The one problem I see in PA regs for bucks right now is  the LOOPHOLE where kids and... do not have to follow antler res.
We all know how dishonest PA hunters can be and this is why I think some areas(heavily pressured) do not have as many big bucks.
Daddy just uses juniors tag when a fork buck comes along.
I know you guys are MUCH more knowledgeable than me so here is the question do other states have double standards on ars or just us.
The other obvious problem is that some areas just have too many hunters/tags IMO.
Go ahead blast away...WCW
#55
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/10 01:55:34 (permalink)
workcanwait....
I came back to this...sorry in advance.I stick to the fact that I enjoy any time spent in the PA woods its not a perfect world but I have hunted worse.After growing up in NEPA and hunting deer during firearms season only 1999-2005 I lived in INDIANA 20 miles from Lafayette in the middle of the neverending cornfields-woodlots and creek bottoms.Its where I started archery hunting and learned a lot about deer and how they act when they are not being chased around the bigwoods by millions of rifle toting PA boys.But the attitude towards and the hunting was very different than PA.I had permission to hunt a handful of properties farmers hate deer there and farmers seemed to run the state.On top of that a lot of anti's around.Deer were scarce most places but there were pockets of good deer numbers mostly around creek bed areas.As soon as I could I moved back to PA and never went back...The one problem I see in PA regs for bucks right now is  the LOOPHOLE where kids and... do not have to follow antler res.We all know how dishonest PA hunters can be and this is why I think some areas(heavily pressured) do not have as many big bucks.Daddy just uses juniors tag when a fork buck comes along.I know you guys are MUCH more knowledgeable than me so here is the question do other states have double standards on ars or just us.The other obvious problem is that some areas just have too many hunters/tags IMO.Go ahead blast away...WCW



Didn't you just imply, on another thread, that I had a bad attitude toward the lack of big bucks in PA. and now, you belittle the PA. Sportsman for being the reason for said lack of bucks in parts of PA. ILLEGAL AT THAT.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#56
dpms
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/10 06:44:58 (permalink)
workcanwait.....We all know how dishonest PA hunters can be and this is why I think some areas(heavily pressured) do not have as many big bucks.Daddy just uses juniors tag when a fork buck comes along.


So Pa hunters are somehow more dishonest than hunters in other states?

My rifle is a black rifle
#57
workcanwait....
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/10 07:28:05 (permalink)
BTDT-"Didn't you just imply, on another thread, that I had a bad attitude toward the lack of big bucks in PA. and now, you belittle the PA. Sportsman for being the reason for said lack of bucks in parts of PA. ILLEGAL AT THAT."
I am just attempting to offer a different view on things.
There are plenty of nice bucks around just not everywhere you look.
You seem to put PA down a lot I just try to make the best of the situation.
Just because I disagree with you- you seem to get upset that's not my intention.
 
dpms-"So Pa hunters are somehow more dishonest than hunters in other states?"
 
Not comparing PA hunters dishonest actions to others states hunters actions but yeah I think there are  some dishonest hunters in PA.
And the  kid loophole gives them a easy way to cheat the system imo.
I did not say or mean ALL  PA hunters but there are some bad apples out there.
 
I was just wondering if other states with ars handle it differently.
I figured you guys would know the answer you seem like a smart bunch of guys and that's not a sarcastic comment.
 
Sorry for bothering you guys I'll just crawl back in my hole...WCW
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
#58
DarDys
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/10 08:45:57 (permalink)
A coworker has now stuck three since the beginning of the season and recovered zero. Each stuck deer had made it to posted property (his neighbor) that he will not enter. I suggested hunting somewhere else to remove that possibility, but he says he will just switch from a vertical bow to a cross bow.

Not a shot at archers, just something that puzzles me.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#59
S-10
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Re: And so it continues... 2014/10/10 10:15:49 (permalink)
DarDys, for someone lacking the strength, or time, or willingness to practice with a compound bow a crossbow will give you the accuracy without near the work involved with a compound. The weapon itself is no more accurate but you don't have to practice near as much. To me crossbow hunting is really not bow hunting but the PGC has decreed it so.
#60
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