Elk preference points

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dpms
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2014/07/08 18:55:05 (permalink)

Elk preference points

For those that apply. You are now able to see how many preference points you have for elk when you check the status of your applications/permits. Previously, you would have to call the PGC and they would look it up for you. I have 11 now. Some day, maybe I will actually draw a tag. 

My rifle is a black rifle
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    Claypool313
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/13 18:16:12 (permalink)
    I just put in for mine.  7 points so far.  Got a late start.  I have a feeling this is my year since vacation is tight and wife is expecting.
     
    Just wish they'd choose a better week than the best week of the whitetail rut.  Lots of tags this year.
    #2
    Panfisher
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/27 10:57:43 (permalink)
    dpms
    If or when you draw a permit, will you hunt the elk with a crossbow?

    The only thing better than 1 day of fishing is 2 days of fishing.
    #3
    Eman89so
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 01:38:59 (permalink)
    what are preference points? I would like to kill a elk, have never hunted them.
    #4
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 10:16:17 (permalink)
    Eman a person will receive preference points each year they apply for an elk permit but, are not chosen. Persons with points are given priority over those having fewer or no points next time around.

    Just another way for the game commission to entice more hunters to apply.

    Must not be working as I understand more elk permits are now being tossed on the table as bait.

    Last I knew, the fee charged for elk permits is not refundable.

    Pretty neat scam to generate funds for the coffers. But, as P. T. Barnum (is suppose to have) said " There is a sucker born every minute".

    The way the game commission, and fish commission for that matter, leads the sportsman around reminds me of the old farmer that got his donkey to go where he wanted the animal to go by, dangling a carrot in front of the donkey's nose.

    Certain information in this posting may be subject to correction. Except the reference to "The old farmer". That's a fact.

    Hunt Safely......... The life you save may be mine.
    #5
    DarDys
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 10:40:45 (permalink)
    I think the way the points program works is you get as many entries into the drawing as you have points. So if you apply for the first time, you get one entry and if you have 10 points, your name is entered 10 times. The idea is the more times your name is in, the better the odds.

    Of course you can buy extra points if you want. Imagine that.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #6
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 10:50:40 (permalink)
    I stand corrected. But, only (and only) on the points.
    #7
    Eman89so
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 14:37:48 (permalink)
    Interesting..
    #8
    fishin coyote
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 16:29:31 (permalink)
    So if I read BeenThere's post correctly. Those of us who have spent the $10 on a chance for the tag lottery are suckers??? MMMM... Last I knew, your fee for a regular hunting licence was non refundable also.
    Mike 

    Nothing is Free!!
    Reward equals Effort


    #9
    dpms
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 19:10:41 (permalink)
    Panfisher
    dpms
    If or when you draw a permit, will you hunt the elk with a crossbow?



     
    That is the plan if I ever get drawn. Since it is pretty much a once in a lifetime deal, the 300 winnie will be along for backup. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #10
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/28 22:04:20 (permalink)
    Correct you are Coyote but, you still get to hunt. There's just no guarantee you'll bag any game.

    How is it we receive a refund should we not be 'awarded' a antlerless deer tag including the bonus tags.

    Not wishing to P. in anybody's kool-aid but, you can rest assured that the game commission is laughing all the way to the bank.

    Wish you the best of luck in the drawing and may you bag (no less then) a Royal.
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/07/28 22:33:05
    #11
    frost
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/30 12:11:15 (permalink)
    It is no different than any of your mid west states. You pay a small fee to enter for the chance at drawing a tag, if your not drawn then your fee is non refundable and you get a preference point for future seasons when you apply. I'm trying to figure out why so many people are upset about the whole thing? If you don't want to give your money to the pgc then don't, but don't complain about someone that is willing and able to spend $10 on a chance to hunt a pa elk. Let me guess your also upset because if drawn you have to spend another $25 for residents and $250 for non residents for the tag itself?

    The worst day hunting or fishing will always be better then the best day at school or work!
    #12
    DarDys
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/30 14:13:22 (permalink)
    I don't have an issue with the system. I have this year's entry plus six preference points. The only reason I don't have more points is there a few years I could not go if drawn, so I did not enter.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #13
    SaltWaterRocks
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/07/30 18:39:20 (permalink)
    Try Montana.  First, you put in for a draw(the licenses are readily available now) at $950+ dollars.  Then, if you aren't drawn, they refund all but (I believe) $10.  Now you have to pay to get there and possibly a guide.  All in, $6000 would be reasonable, $10,000 not out of the question.  How many people would pass on a drawing where $10 wins you a $10,000 hunting trip?  Not me.  I'm OK with being corrected on this, but I believe the money generated by the elk drawings is used in the elk range for habitat improvement and land acquisition.  And if you have ever been to the PA elk range, you know the habitat improvements and land acquisition aren't just about the elk and elk hunters.
    #14
    DarDys
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/01 05:52:06 (permalink)
    The only time I hunted for Elk was in 1998.  It took a year of research, whihc was a lot harder back then without th einternet as it is today, to find an outfitter that I felt comfortable with -- even talked to someone I knew that hunted with him.  Had to book two years ahead of time to get a slot.  Took a year to ge tin shape ad still was not in good enough condition.  Flew there a day early because of the time I needed to meet him at the airport.  Hunted six days at 6000 to 10000 feet in black timber and fire damaged areas.  Ttoal cost back then was about $5000 with everything except the long range rifle that I had no other use for.  And the only mammal I saw was a pine squirrel.
     
    So dropping $10 a year for a chance to hunt within a few hours of home at a livable elevation in easy terrain where I feel I will at least see elk and have a great chance of actually harvesting one, is a no brainer.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #15
    Claypool313
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/02 09:09:15 (permalink)
    I agree for the most part.  If the drawing system is fair, meaning no off-the-side deals, then it's well worth the $10.70 / point.  I have no proof that the drawing system isn't fair, but have heard stories.  Probably all made up.  So I've personally dumped $85.60 over 8 years.  Doesn't feel like a waste so far.
     
    In years you can't hunt, you can still buy a point for the same price.  That way you won't get drawn in a year you can't go, but still accumulate better odds for the next year.
     
    I'm one of the first to criticize the PGC, but cripes, they only get ~$208,000 / year in elk application revenue, not counting expenses.  You think running the drawing itself, manning check stations, land maintenance, herd health monitoring, etc, is free?
     
    Couple things I do disagree with are allowing non-residents to apply.  My opinion, but I think this should be a privilege for Pennsylvanians only.  I also think they should reserve a tag for the residents of the elk range.  But managing who's in /out might be a little difficult.
     
    I understand crop damage is driving higher and higher cow allocations each year.  I have no proof, but the total hunters all crammed into 6 days might be getting crowded.  I would hope they do a good job spreading them out into all the zones.  I wouldn't be totally opposed to a split season if that's what it takes.
    #16
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/03 14:59:15 (permalink)
    just a couple comments...
     
    #1 .. I agree it should be for Pa hunters ONLY....
    #2 .. I HATE the idea that one tag goes to the highest bidder... that stinks !!!
    #3 .. how much do I have invested in Pa elk hunting... absolutely ZERO ....

    #17
    DarDys
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/05 05:44:25 (permalink)
    I am in agreement that it should be a PA resident only deal.
     
    As for the highest bidder thing, I haven't kept up on that, but wasn't it for a charity group thing like the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, which did the lion's share of the work with the elk in PA?  If so, I have no issue with giving back for all the work they did.
     
    As for not investing, your call.  Personnaly I think it is a cheap investment at the chance for a hunt of a lifetime.  Heck, one can spend $10 on a frozen drink, two beers, a sub sandwich, etc.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #18
    Dr. Trout
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/05 17:27:06 (permalink)
    rocky mt elk group gets a "free" tag every year,, that they raffle off.
     
    I'm talking the one that goes to highest bidder..one year I think it brought almost $25,000....
    #19
    DarDys
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/05 21:44:20 (permalink)
    Did not know that. Does the PGC get that money?

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #20
    SaltWaterRocks
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/05 22:02:55 (permalink)

    “RMEF appreciates this opportunity to raise funds to benefit Pennsylvania elk and Pennsylvania elk country,” said Dave Ragantesi, RMEF senior regional director. “We want to thank our conservation partners at the Game Commission who will receive 100 percent of the proceeds from the auction to put back on the ground. RMEF will absorb any administrative fees associated with running the auction.”  I do believe there is a stipulation somewhere that all of the money goes back into the elk herd.  I am looking into that. 
    #21
    SaltWaterRocks
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/05 22:07:06 (permalink)
    Here is a link to an article about the auction
     
    http://www.gloucestercity...-bull-tag-auction.html
    #22
    kevinupp
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/19 13:20:37 (permalink)
    Jeeeesh SOOOOOOO much misinformation on this thread it's pathetic.....  Especially coming from some who want others to believe they have their fingers on the pulse of the PGC.
     
     
    Elk preference points: You receive one point every year you elect to join the "lottery".
    You can buy a "preference point" if you know you won't be able to hunt that year. Your name just won't be put into the drawing.
    You can only gain ONE point a year. You either get in the drawing or buy a point.
    It really isn't a preference point type of system. In a true preference system after so many entries you are guaranteed a tag. The first $100,000 is required by law to go back into the elk program.
     
    The governors tag is a "highest bidder" tag. It is given to a outdoors/conservation group to auction off. I think this years tag was the fifth one to be auctioned.....  NWTF, DU, and this year RMEF have all had the opportunity to auction one off. I can't remember the others. I do believe it's an 80/20 split on the money for this tag, with the PGC getting the 80. RMEF reportedly gave all the proceeds from the tag this year to the PGC
     
    Then there's the new one that was given to KECA (the ones that run the visitors center) that they raffle off for $25/chance. I heard tale that they raised over $160,000 almost all of which will go back into the conservation efforts in the elk range.
     
    The way license numbers are allotted are mainly by a series of surveys conducted throughout the year, complaints. then the whole political factor. Surprisingly the political aspect of it is very minimal.
     
    I know when I worked with the elk there were a couple times where people, both inside and outside the agency that wanted more tags allotted. But Jon DeBerti (the then head elk biologist) would show them the biological data that showed it wasn't needed.
     
    It's been neat to watch the whole hunt process change, evolve, adapt over the years. 

    More than a million trees a year die to print environmentalist publications.
    #23
    DarDys
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    Re: Elk preference points 2014/08/23 08:00:19 (permalink)
    No draw for me this year. Now I have 5 "found" vacation days. Looks like more pheasants are going to meet their demise.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
    #24
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