More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested

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Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 18:26:52 (permalink)
Read PGC Press Release 115-02  and 081-01, 080-01

 
SERIOUSLY>>>REALLY>>>> I can't find ( search engine ) a **** thing on the PGC website... never have been able to.. IT SUCKS ~!!! and I tell them that every chance I get..
 
typing PGC Press Release 115-02 in search block .. gets me NOTHING that looks like a press release....
 
got a link ????
 
I know that this is from the published report about the 2013-2014 deer harvest ....
 

 
Age structure of this year‟ harvest was 47% 1.5 year old bucks and 53% 2.5 year old and older bucks.
 Comparisons between the current year's harvest and historic antlered harvests often do not consider hunter numbers. In 1986, there were 1,000,000 deer hunters in Pennsylvania. Today, there are around 740,000 deer hunters. As a result, one cannot compare antlered harvest totals to the past without including the fact that there are fewer hunters hunting deer. When properly corrected by the number of hunters, success rates are comparable to the past.
 
Antlerless Harvests
Antlerless hunter success rates remained at approximately a quarter of all antlerless licenses used to harvest an antlerless deer. This is on average with harvest success for recent years.
 Age structure of this year's harvest was 62% adult females, 21% button bucks, and 18% doe fawns. This is similar to long term averages.

post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/03/30 18:37:47
#31
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 18:39:03 (permalink)
Some states reported harvests vs. Pa' s reported harvest for 2013.
 
Oh--191,451
WV--150,268
KY--144,404
IN--125,635
IL--148,635
 
And several others in similar range most years, but didn't quickly and easily find the total for this past season, and wasn't going through all the states either. lol.
 
And that's not even counting the states "known" for their harvests like Miss., Wis, Tx, MI...
 
Compare to Pa=110,000 total deer reported harvest.
 
But Rosenberry would rather compare those states reported harvests  to 300+ k. lol.  Yep.....we're obviously #2...
 
More o' dat pgc brand of "science" that no one other than pgc geniuses can seem to understand. lmao.
 
 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/03/30 18:45:57


#32
Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 18:52:07 (permalink)
I was not talking about comparing total harvest between states..
 
I was just referring to the success rate of hunters in our state .. I could care less about other states.. I do not live there or hunt there
 
deer harvest divided by licenses/tags issued (hunters ).. that is the success rate I am referring to...
 
BUT === since you mentioned other states ...
could you also take a minute and post a couple things about those other states .. that may effect their harvest..
 
...do they have antler restrictions for the buck ??
... how long are their respective seasons.. archery, rifle, muzzleloader ??
... what is the limit number one can harvest of each species??
... cost of licenses ???
 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2014/03/30 18:57:14
#33
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:01:01 (permalink)
No one (but you) is talking about comparing total harvest between states..

 
Doc, are you just trying to be a  ?    Go back and read what I said.... And WHOM I said made the comparison.   It suren'a heck doesn't say "Doc Trout".
 
And it speaks directly to the credibility and willingness of the pgc to push the antideer agendas with deceit or any means necessary.


#34
S-10
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:05:30 (permalink)
There were not 1 million hunters in 1999, 2000 or 2001 when the buck harvest both by total numbers and percentage were highest.
 
As for the 740,000 deer hunters it's funny that they told the leglislature there were approx. 886,000 deer hunters when they were selling the benefits of Sunday hunting. I guess you fudge the numbers to suit the situation.
 
I don't have a link to the press releases, I was always having a tough time finding them so whenever I did  just wrote them down along with what they were referring to. Anything you want is there somewhere but apparently whoever set the system up likes to play hide and seek.
#35
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:05:34 (permalink)
 
 
None of the rest of what you posted/edited in has anything to do with anything doc.   Those states have higher reported harvests and these days do so on a sustained basis.  Antler restrictions, etc. etc.  Have nothing to do with anything, certainly nothing at all to do with anything I said.
 
And the point wasn't to argue the comparisons as to what states are great, which ones aren't....blah blah blah...   The point was Rosenberry was making a 100% unsupportable halfwit claim to support his position.   It is NOT a fact that we are 2nd in harvest and there is absolutely no scientific documentation or data that supports the contention that we are, or even close....Yet an invalid comparison was made and clearly made for purposes of deception.
 
And just as an fyi,  most states except for one or two in the country have fewer hunters than Pa. 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/03/30 19:14:58


#36
Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:11:58 (permalink)
well I went and pick out a state.. Kentucky... and just as my questions suggested it is not fair comparing states...
 
.Kentucky..
no antler restrictions that I can find.. but like us only 1 buck...
 
hunters can get 2 antlerless with their  regular hunting license and even more with other permits..
some zones have unlimited doe harvest per hunter,
other have a limit of 4 per hunter...
 
 
archery season is from Sept until January.
their gun season is in the middle of November... right in the middle of the rut....
 
IMO each of those could effect their higher reported harvests...
#37
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:15:40 (permalink)
lmao.
 
Read my post again doc.  S-L-O-W-E-R!..


#38
Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:23:08 (permalink)
here's what you posted ==
Some states reported harvests vs. Pa' s reported harvest for 2013.
 
Oh--191,451
WV--150,268
KY--144,404
IN--125,635
IL--148,635
 
And several others in similar range most years, but didn't quickly and easily find the total for this past season, and wasn't going through all the states either. lol.
 
And that's not even counting the states "known" for their harvests like Miss., Wis, Tx, MI...
 
Compare to Pa=110,000 total deer reported harvest.

 
So I simply showed why that is totally possible ....
#39
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:25:05 (permalink)
IMO each of those could effect their higher reported harvests...

 
Yeah, those Ky hillbillies are just so much more law abiding than your average keystone state resident. lmao.Same with the West Virginians and the swampers down south.
 
We could speculate about a lot of things doc, and give perceived  but totally unsupported reasons for this or that...   But the fact of da matter is.... Your boy done lied and said we are number 2!
 
Those states do no field checks to cross check harvest reports because they don't estimate harvests...    If they don't know what level of noncompliance there is in their own state, you or Rosenberry surena heck don't! lol.  And to compare our massaged total to one that isnt, and not pointing out it was not a legitimate comparison and why.... and to try to use it in agenda pushing...that's lying plain and simple.   There is no place for liars and frauds in deer management.
 
 
And that's just one instance of many...
post edited by wayne c - 2014/03/30 19:29:39


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Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:29:20 (permalink)

As for the 740,000 deer hunters it's funny that they told the leglislature there were approx. 886,000 deer hunters when they were selling the benefits of Sunday hunting. I guess you fudge the numbers to suit the situation.

 
 
 
 
S-10..
 
I could be wrong ---  but I think you have not posted those figures correctly....
 
I think one is estimated DEER hunters  = 740,000
 
and as for the Sunday hunting issue==  I believe he used 886,000 TOTAL hunters  (all hunters)
 
so I do not believe there was any" fudging" on the PGC part...
#41
Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 19:35:36 (permalink)
last one for today...

Those states do no field checks to cross check harvest reports because they don't estimate harvests...   

 
Better do some more reading the rules, reg, etc for each of those states you posted just the numbers from..
for example =  I believe one still uses check stations..... and I also could not find anything on if the agencies felt that was a 100% reporting rate or a 20%  reporting rate and I am sure they know there is no 100% reporting rate ANYWHERE !!!!
 
til later.....
doc
#42
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 20:25:29 (permalink)
Uh, doc, these people arent morons.   They KNOW that they don't get 100 percent compliance.  THey just make no effort to account for it.   Even though they may not even be close to the total harvest overall, they feel their reported numbers are good enough for what they are intended for.   They can see trends in the numbers, and hope that the reporting rates don't change all that much from year to year, no matter what they may be.  They can still see the increases and decreases in harvest.   Although I would add that adding in for noncompliance is a better way to do things in general.   That again, has nothing to do with the points that were made. 
 
Nobody also said anything about check stations.   Some states use them.  Many do not.
 
And for the record, as I said there are many other states that can be added to the list of higher reported harvest than Pa.
 
I think you got the point slappy, now enough twisting in the breeze....take it like a man! 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/03/30 20:37:13


#43
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 21:08:58 (permalink)
Doc Quote: S-10..
 
I could be wrong ---  but I think you have not posted those figures correctly....
 
I think one is estimated DEER hunters  = 740,000
 
and as for the Sunday hunting issue==  I believe he used 886,000 TOTAL hunters  (all hunters)
 
so I do not believe there was any" fudging" on the PGC part...
 
Sorry Doc but your wrong. The exact numbers used to support Sunday hunting were --Total hunters= 948,381---Deer Hunters=888,187. Like I said, The PGC appears to use whatever number they need to support the claim they are making.
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/30 23:01:51 (permalink)
I don't agree that counting one tag as one hunter is fair at all.
Many hunters have multiple tags and fill multipule tags.
 
Hunter success should be based on the hunter not the tag.
Throws the numbers way off and makes the "Hunter Success Ratio" way to high..

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


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DarDys
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/31 07:58:15 (permalink)
Dr. Trout
 
 
deer harvest divided by licenses/tags issued (hunters ).. that is the success rate I am referring to...
 



 
You should really stay away from the math Doc because you are not very good at it.
 
To calculate the "hunter" success rate, you need to divide the deer harvest by the number of deer hunters -- NOT the number of tags.  Why?  Because a single hunter may possess multiple tags.  One tag does not equal one hunter.  A single hunter filling multiple tags is not the same a multiple hunters filling tags.  Here is an example:
 
Doing math the correct way -- 100 deer are killed by 1,000 single hunters each holding one tag.  The hunter success rate is 10%.  That means that 10% killed a deer and 90% did not.  In pure numbers, 100 hunters killed a deer and 900 did not.
 
Doing the math Doc's way -- the same 100 deer are killed by 1,000 single hunters. This time let's introduce multiple tags.  Five single hunters with multiple tags fill 4 tags each for a total of 20 deer; ten single hunters with multiple tags fill 3 tags each for a total of 30; 20 single hunters with multiple tags fill two tags each for a total 40; and 10 single hunters with multiple tags fill one tag each for a total of 10.  Using Doc's math, the hunter success rate is still 100 deer harvested by 1,000 hunters, so 10%.  But when the math is done correctly, in all actuality only 45 hunters were successful because of multiple tags.  Taking the number of successful "hunters," not filled tags, and dividing that into the 100 deer killed the success rate is now 4.5%, with no changes in the number of deer killed or the number of hunters.  In this scenario, 45 hunters killed deer while, 955 did not, or an increase of 55 hunters that were not successful.  Ask those 55 hunters if the "success rate" stayed the same.
post edited by DarDys - 2014/03/31 15:55:37

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#46
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/31 10:29:48 (permalink)
As the PGC themselves have said in the past the antlered harvest is the best way to determine the status of the deer herd.
#47
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/03/31 16:45:42 (permalink)
Too much algebra or something for me...WF...I prefer the guess method that has been used for a few years. Much easier on the brain.....Heck, I dont even need a brain.
 
#48
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/04/13 23:31:17 (permalink)
http://triblive.com/sports/outdoors/5904814-74/deer-disease-unit#ixzz2ylrMRrZg
 
Figured this would fit in best in a thread with the word "fraud" in it.


#49
Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/04/14 19:57:48 (permalink)
Yep.. there you have it again..
 
those guys on the board that some of you think are such good sportsmen and hunters... and they "really" care about us.....    LOL...
 
they have no idea what they are doing  ... just look at their actions in the past 2 months ....LOL..LOL
 

#50
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/04/15 15:35:21 (permalink)
 
Really doc?   Why don't you explain to everyone in your opinion, what the problem is with what went on in my link, whos to blame, and why.
 
I cant wait to check back later this evening to see this.


#51
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/04/16 16:03:30 (permalink)
Just as I thought...   Not a clue. lol
 



#52
Dr. Trout
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/04/16 22:26:50 (permalink)
I was simply posting my thoughts on the link you provide....
 
anyone can read it and form their own opinions, and are welcome to post their thoughts .. but I doubt that many will....
 
I see no reason to engage in any further debates with you..
we all know where you are coming from....
 
you even attached a smilie of the place in your post above... 
 
 
 ....LOL>>>>LOL>>>>>
#53
wayne c
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Re: More Pa game commission fraud -- Antlerless allocations suggested 2014/04/17 11:26:00 (permalink)
Hmmm.  I see.  Rather informed opinion backing up your theory there doc.  Thanks for clarifying. 
 
 
.............
 
 
 
anyone can read it and form their own opinions, and are welcome to post their thoughts .. but I doubt that many will...
.
 
Hmmm.   How many posts by different people on in this thread doc??   And how many times have YOU yourself replied?    Yep.   That evil Wayne character just drove everyone off of fishusa lemme tell ya!
 
Relax Doc.   I was just funnin' ya with the toilet smiley, get a grip.    Would hate to see you promise yet again to be quitting here for the 15th time in the last few years over nuttin' lol.   
post edited by wayne c - 2014/04/17 11:41:42


#54
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