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Thread Subject: Jet Boat started on 7-Jan-2007 4:00:50 PM by H20Wolf  
H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 7-Jan-2007 4:00:50 PM
Does anyone own a boat with a jet outboard? I'm interested in one and have some questions and would like to get some advice. email at h20wolf@hotmail.com (h2zero) Thanks
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71gto


Registered: 16-Jul-2002
Total Posts: 40

posted on 7-Jan-2007 7:43:18 PM
H2OWolf,

I would not mind if some info would be posted here as I think others would be interested in hearing the advise, cause I know I would be, as I am looking for one this spring.

Thanks
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COMMANDER1
Registered: 19-May-2003
Total Posts: 1335

posted on 7-Jan-2007 7:55:10 PM
kayak99 had a very nice one for sale about a year ago. dont know if he still has it. use the search feature and i'm sure you'll find it.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 7-Jan-2007 8:02:38 PM
I sold my Wooldridge 115/80 jet a few weeks ago but I'd be glad to answer questions you might have.

If you post them here, I'll answer here in case that information might help others.

Mike
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 7-Jan-2007 10:03:46 PM
Thanks,
I don't mind talking here. I'm just trying to do some research. I live an hour south of Pittsburgh and don't know any local dealers with these types of boats. So far I like the looks of a lowe roughneck 16footer. Thinking about 40-50hp outboard. I read some things online that make me lean toward a tunnel hull. That's about as far as I am with it. Hopefully we can get some info from boat owners and maybe suggestions on where to buy. I may go to the boat show at the end of the month but don't know if I'll see any there or not.
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 7-Jan-2007 10:11:35 PM
Mike,
What waters did you run your jet on, and how shallow could you run it? Also, curious why you sold it, just wondering if it is not a practical setup. I know they are specific to shallow water, put can it be a problem in weedy lakes or with a lot of leaves in the water.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 7-Jan-2007 11:06:52 PM
quote:
H20Wolf originally wrote:
Mike,
What waters did you run your jet on, and how shallow could you run it? Also, curious why you sold it, just wondering if it is not a practical setup. I know they are specific to shallow water, put can it be a problem in weedy lakes or with a lot of leaves in the water.


Primarily I ran my boat on the Allegheny between Parker and Oil City. Since it had high sides I was also able to use it on Shenango Resevoir and Lake Erie. On plane these run in 4-6 inches of water, providing you have enough HP and a wide enough bottom width. The main reason I sold mine was because I didn't use it enough.

Yes weeds and leaves are a problem. You suck them up, they clog the intakes and you stop and clear them. PITA but that's not typical, unless you run over floating weeds and leaves a lot. (Weeds not floating are not really an issue.) Best to avoid them and you'll be fine.

The setup does need to be considered. I would not always recommend my setup if you're strictly fishing. Mine had a cockpit, walk-through windshield, etc. A great boat for boating but if you're strictly fishing the rivers, I'd get a center console roughneck type.

For HP, don't underpower as you will lose 1/3rd of their HP with a jet pump. (My 115 HP motor was rated as an 80 HP jet) Underpower one and you'll always regret it. It will be hard to get on plane, especially with any type of load (that includes tackle & fuel, let alone passengers). Jet boats are weight sensitive.

With a 16 ft Roughneck you should get at least a 70 HP. 90 would be better.

Definately get a tunnel hull. In fact, don't get a jet boat without a tunnel hull and make certain your dealer regularly deals with jets so the motor is set correctly on the transom.

At the Pgh Boat Show, Weigel from Franklin, PA should have some examples of jet boats. He sells Jetcraft and Lowe. His prices are not low but he does know his stuff. You can usually pickup decent used jets if you shop around.

You'll also need to learn to drive a jet. They do not turn like a prop. If you see a rock ahead, you throttle DOWN, not UP, then angle your boat to sail over the rock. When not on plane you'll need a couple of feet of water depth to take off so you'll have to plan your take offs. You'll need to consider a 4 fin stainless impeller rather than the standard aluminum three fins. Four fins give a better hole shot.

Okay, that's enough to digest for now.







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Trout About


Registered: 24-Nov-2001
Total Posts: 447

posted on 7-Jan-2007 11:09:21 PM
Lots of info on jet boats here. http://forums.riversmallies.com/forums/index.php?s=a159455bb629986ab03a1959293decb7&showforum=20

From what I understand, there are 2 types of tunnel hulls. One is for jets and one for props.

I made the mistake of taking one for a test drive about 3 years ago. (18' Jetcraft with a 240hp inboard Merc Sport-jet). It was all I could think about for a long time. Amazing speed, handeling, holeshot, shallow draft......................and FUEL CONSUMPTION. For me, it just wasn't practical to get a set-up like that for the few times I fish that shallow rivers. I still dream of having one someday though.
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Brother Angel
Registered: 29-Jul-2006
Total Posts: 66

posted on 8-Jan-2007 9:39:22 AM
There is a guy out of franklin named Kim Richey who knows alot about jet boats. One of his employees had one for sale last summer. His number is 814-437-5905.
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chugbug
Registered: 6-Nov-2002
Total Posts: 86

posted on 8-Jan-2007 4:43:25 PM
I have dealt with both Kim Richey and Kneal Weigel in Franklin on matters other than jet boats but would recommend either of them.
You are not going to find any great deals at Weigel Bros. but I can assure that you will be treated fairly. Kneal and his boys there know a lot about jet boats and would not lead you in the wrong direction. I think Weigel Bros deals in Evinrude and Yamaha motors. I know they sell Lowe boats cause I have bought two off of him. Was just there last week and noticed several new Roughnecks with jet motors ready to be bought. Kim Richey deals with Tohatsu motors but also can help with getting a jon boat and answer any questions you may have. Good luck.
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 8-Jan-2007 7:51:43 PM
Thanks for the replies so far. I spoke with Kneal wiegel. He did not seem to favor a tunnel hull. He thought a 40/28 hp would be enough for a tiller setup. Unfortunately they will not be at the boat show. I'll try to contact Kim Richey as well. Thanks for the help so far...anyone else please share your opinions and advice as well. Thanks
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 8-Jan-2007 8:41:04 PM
quote:
H20Wolf originally wrote:
Thanks for the replies so far. I spoke with Kneal wiegel. He did not seem to favor a tunnel hull. He thought a 40/28 hp would be enough for a tiller setup.


If that is the case I disagree with him, unless the boats he sells have poorly designed hulls. For one thing, when a friend of mine wanted a Lowe, he couldn't say enough good things about a tunnel hull then sold him one. When my buddy wanted to re-sell it, Wiegel sold it for him in ONE day!

Get a tunnel hull. You won't regret it.

Here is an article from the Wooldridge boat site:

Outboard jets. They’re located at the transom, with their intake off the stern. Hull design is critical to keep the outboard jet pumping efficiently....at every potential boat attitude in the water.That has very little to do with the motor, it has everything to do with boat design, and feeding "clean" water, the densest water possible, to the jet pump, enhancing efficiency and boosting power. Wooldridge Boats began extensive experimentation on this decades ago, first identifying the increased performance with a slight V in the bottom of the boat, designing and fine tuning hulls to best feed the outboard jet.

Then in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s, Wooldridge began intensive experimentation with a tunnel, to enhance "clean" water flow to the pump, minimize side slippage on hard cornering, raise the intake for less damage in shallow running and enhance overall handling and jet performance.It took more than a year of intensive development to fine tune a tunnel design that evolved into state of the art performance and was ultimately patented.

Again, because so much of outboard jet performance is based on feeding the intake clean water, a properly designed Wooldridge tunnel is essential to feeding the jet in all on-the-water postures. The Wooldridge tunnel also acts as a skeg and enhances steering control, providing the ultimate in aggressive handling situations.A poorly designed jet tunnel, or a tunnel which does not complement the design and performance of the hull (size and shape) can negatively affect boat performance.



P.S. You buy a 40/28 jet and you'll have a poor time getting on plane, especially with a tiller model. All the weight in the rear and only 28 HP? Ask him how many miles it will take for you to get on plane. Terrible idea. Something tells me he's wanting to sell you something he wants rid of.
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 8-Jan-2007 9:21:27 PM
I don't want to leave a negative impresion of the marina mentioned. They were very helpful with all my questions, and did mention using tunnel hulls and said they would be more than happy to order me one. hHe just said it wasn't their preferance. They also said it could be arranged to try the same setup mentioned with the mod v and the 40/28, so I definately will take up the offer before buying.
Thanks again for all the advice and opinions.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 8-Jan-2007 9:52:56 PM
quote:
H20Wolf originally wrote:
They were very helpful with all my questions, and did mention using tunnel hulls and said they would be more than happy to order me one.



I have talked with and bought from Wiegel many times and I am not telling you it's a bad dealership for it is not but they sell what they have and I think that is what is happening here.

You would be very wise to try several setups before buying, and not just from Wiegels. I suggest you head for the riversmallies site and read the many topics by people who use these jets, small and large, from the Susky, the New, the Allegheny and many other rivers. There are several people with jets who live near to you and perhaps they will consider taking you for a ride.

It's your money.

Good luck.
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chugbug
Registered: 6-Nov-2002
Total Posts: 86

posted on 9-Jan-2007 9:31:15 AM
Seems to me that a lot depends on the size of jon boat being discussed. If talking about a 16 ft. Roughneck I could understand Kneal recommending a 40/28 jet tiller motor. This is a small light boat. I have a 2004 1652 Roughneck and the maximum tiller HP rating is 30 HP. I think the 2007 model might have increased to 35 HP. Now if you are talking about a 17 or 18 ft Roughneck with a wider beam and more weight that would be a different story. If Kneal is offering the opportunity to test drive one I would recommend you do that. Also agree with Kayak99 that it is best to look around and try some different models. I don't know enough to weigh in on the tunnel vs. no tunnel debate. Good luck.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 9-Jan-2007 3:53:53 PM
If a 16' 40 HP tiller Roughneck is what you 're looking for, here's a 2002 for sale for $7999 on the site where I sold my Wooldridge. Looks like it's setup real nice and has few hours.

If nothing else you could email the guy and ask him how it handles. I could be wrong. Maybe it planes better than I thought.

Oops, forgot the link

http://steelheadsite.com/forums/ads_item.php?id=539&sid=4515c85cf403991c578aa5d8167fa5b0
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 9-Jan-2007 6:57:25 PM
Chugbug, What kind of hull is yours: flat bottom or V. Just wandering how it handles. Also what hp are you running on it?

Kayak, thanks for the link. I emailed them to see where the boat is located. Also contacted 2 other dealers today. Looks like everyone on the riversmallies site highly favors the tunnel hull. Thanks again.
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chugbug
Registered: 6-Nov-2002
Total Posts: 86

posted on 9-Jan-2007 7:32:25 PM
Mine is a R1652VT which has the modified V hull. I think it is a 6 degree V. I have had 3 small boats over the past 7 years. I finally found this one and am content. Bought it with the floor/sides and the rear deck insert installed. Extended the front deck with wood by 3 ft adding two more large storage compartments. Carpeted the whole thing. Dropped a livewell into the rear deck with fill, drain, overflow, and recirg system. Last year I ran an 18 HP Tohatsu on a mini jack plate. Boat performed real well. Really stable to fish out of. Handles the chop and waves real nice. Per my GPS she runs 22-23 MPH when I am by myself with lot's of tackle. Drops to 20-21 with second person or full livewell. Max HP for the 2007 model is 35 HP for tiller or 50 HP for remote. My experience is that flat bottom jon boats really slap the waves if you were planning on using it on any local lakes. Would definately recommend the mod v design.
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 9-Jan-2007 7:58:45 PM
Did you ever run a jet ouboard on your 1652. If so, I'm just curious how shallow you would get with the mod V. After all, I'm really after a shallow runnin machine. I think the tunnel hull allows you to run a bit shallower b/c the motor can be higher. I guess that cavitation can be an issue though with a tunnel hull (so I've heard). I also have a tohatsu 18 currently. Really like that motor. Thanks
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 9-Jan-2007 9:25:35 PM
H20Wolf, the cavitation issue exists with any jet pump because you have no skeg as does a prop but it can be reduced by the use of fins on the bottom of the jet pump. I had an extra set on ebay and although they will not fit the size of motor you are interested in you can get an idea of what they are by checking this link. They are the two fins in the middle of the pictures.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190068325757

Someone on the riversmallies site has a size for the smaller motors and I highly recommend them (as well as a four fin stainless impeller) if you buy a jet.
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rockchopper
Registered: 10-Jan-2007
Total Posts: 3

posted on 10-Jan-2007 5:26:28 PM
I have a 2006 Lowe Roughneck 16' w/Johnson 09/65 jet. I could answer any questions. I ahve had it out approx. 20 times. Set-up is the Key!!!!!!!!!
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chugbug
Registered: 6-Nov-2002
Total Posts: 86

posted on 10-Jan-2007 7:36:29 PM
Sorry, never had a jet motor on my boat. Any further leads on that link kayak99 gave you? That is the exact same boat as mine with a fine looking, low hour jet motor on it. Boat looked in nice shape and well equipped. I'm interested if you got any info from the seller as to performance, planing, shallow running, etc. Rockchopper, remote or tiller on your 16 ft roughneck? Mod V or Tunnel hull? Your preference? Now I am interested in learning more about jet boats. I don't live that close to the rivers but hey, maybe that will change someday.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 10-Jan-2007 7:40:29 PM
quote:
rockchopper originally wrote:
I have a 2006 Lowe Roughneck 16' w/Johnson 09/65 jet. I could answer any questions. I ahve had it out approx. 20 times. Set-up is the Key!!!!!!!!!


That's a nice sized motor for your boat. Do you have a tunnel hull and/or do you use fins? Do you have a three or four fins impeller? Have you ever run the speed on a GPS?
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 10-Jan-2007 7:45:35 PM
The 16' with the merc on it is located in Michigan, I didn't ask any performance questions. Spoke with someone last night who runs a 14'roughneck (mod v no tunnel) 30hp johnson (appr 21hp jet) with a console. He said it runs great, real shallow even w/ 2 people. Spoke with a guy at Lowe also. I think I'm more confused now than ever about these hull differences. I want to get on the water and see how some of these perform.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 10-Jan-2007 8:08:01 PM
H2)Wolf, try not to be confused as there are many choices. One main benefit to the tunnel hull is that it directs water into your pump and allows your motor to set higher on the stern.

If you notice the picture of the boat in Michigan you'll see he does NOT have a tunnel hull but he does have fins. Those fins help the lack of a tunnel.

I had a tunnel AND fins. Not only did it help direct water into the pump but it aided with cavitation.

That said, if you're going to be on a lot of water with waves, perhaps you would want a shallow V. If you're not and you'll be mostly river running then a flat bottom w/tunnel hull is the ideal. As far as power, the guy with the 90/65 can tell you how he benefits with the larger motor.

As for waves, I had my flat bottomed (V in the bow) Wooldridge 16'6" Xtra Plus 115/90 on Lake Erie in 4 ft waves. I did a lot of slapping but I ran fine.

P.S. I shudder to think about a 30/21 Jet. First, I have never seen one that small and second, with two people and gear he surely cannot run on plane, even in a 14 footer.
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chugbug
Registered: 6-Nov-2002
Total Posts: 86

posted on 10-Jan-2007 8:17:31 PM
H2OWolf, just something to chew on. You say you have an 18 HP Tohatsu. I would consider picking up a 16 ft. modified V Roughneck with a tiller steer jet motor. That way you could use the boat on both rivers and local lakes just by switching the motor. Good luck in this venture. Hope you find what best meets your needs.
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rockchopper
Registered: 10-Jan-2007
Total Posts: 3

posted on 11-Jan-2007 9:58:35 AM
quote:
kayak99 originally wrote:
quote:
rockchopper originally wrote:
I have a 2006 Lowe Roughneck 16' w/Johnson 09/65 jet. I could answer any questions. I ahve had it out approx. 20 times. Set-up is the Key!!!!!!!!!


That's a nice sized motor for your boat. Do you have a tunnel hull and/or do you use fins? Do you have a three or four fins impeller? Have you ever run the speed on a GPS?


I have a tunnel hull. I have a 3 blade alum. prop. I would guess it runs 40mph. I have hooked up the GPS and plan to run this weekend. I would like to install a 4 blade put $400 is steep. This has been a budget build from the start. I got the boat on closeout and the motor from ebay. I can send pics if you are interested. I have spent a lot of time researching as well as trial and error. I have made mistakes that I could potentially steer you away from. Of course I still have tons to learn.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 11-Jan-2007 12:55:44 PM
rockhopper, your's sounds like a nice setup. I'd be interested in your GPS measured speed. My Wooldridge never got over 39 mph but it was a heavier boat. Do you have a tiller or center console style?

The 4 fin stainless impeller will give you a better hole shot and stand up to rocks than an aluminum but it won't affect your top speed much, if at all.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 12-Jan-2007 12:13:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E9dRbfludg
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rockchopper
Registered: 10-Jan-2007
Total Posts: 3

posted on 12-Jan-2007 10:21:59 AM
I have a right side console in the front. I rarely go by myself. We have flood watches here in Lexington, Ky this weekend so I probably will wait until next weekend to try. That video is awesome. I have run mine over dry ground as well with no problem. It did not even clog. On purpose of course. I love the boat. I have not seen another alum. jet around here. If anyone here needs some info on my particular set-up just let me know. Take care all.
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chugbug
Registered: 6-Nov-2002
Total Posts: 86

posted on 12-Jan-2007 11:08:31 AM
Very cool video. Enjoyed watching it. Thanks for the link.
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 12-Jan-2007 12:04:42 PM
Nice example of cavitaion in a jon/jet (aka - why you need fins).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUfPvXTfboM&mode=related&search=
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H20Wolf
Registered: 7-Nov-2006
Total Posts: 63

posted on 13-Jan-2007 5:02:43 PM
Thanks to everyone for all the replies. If there are any other jet newbies reading this I thought I'd share the most helpful links.
http://www.fish.state.pa.us/boatcrs/jet/jetboard.htm
http://www.snyderboats.com/resources.htm
http://www.outboardjets.com/index.html
The price of these rigs can add up. While I'm saving up I'm going to try to get on the water with a few folks who have jets so I can learn more and make the right choices.
Please, if anyone has more information or opinions don't be shy. And if anyone has something close to a 16' 40-50hp jet and needs a river partner, I'll pay for the fuel. H20wolf@hotmail.com (h2zero)
Kayak, cool videos! Did you do that in your wooldridge?
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kayak99
Registered: 7-Oct-2000
Total Posts: 637

posted on 13-Jan-2007 7:14:29 PM
H20Wolf, no, I never ran out of the water but I did run her hard and she performed well. When I first ran her I though for certain I would scrape bottom but was pleasantly surprised how shallow I could run. I know for certain I was in 4 inch water but it could have been less at times.

The tunnel hull was a blessing and if I did think I might scrape or come close to having a rock meet the jet pump I simply turned the wheel and cocked the boat, moving the jet pump off center and glided over the obstruction. When you ride in a tunnel hulled boat, have the operator show you how to perform that little maneuver.

What I liked about the Wooldridge was the hull thickness. Those boats were welded and built like tanks. That's very important.
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