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Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 9:01:55 PM   
coolerfull1

 

Posts: 128
Status: offline 		I have always thought that lures were made to catch fisherman first and then maybe some fish.  Of course, they try to replicate live bait with action, scent, and what not.  And of course they will catch some fish.  But why use something that imitates when you could be using the real thing.  Berkley power worms for bass can be killer, but sometimes I wonder how many I would be catching if I had some blacknose dace minnows, wild shiners, or soft shelled crabs.  I know the benefits of using artificials, but what works the best?  I'm going with live bait, not that I don't use artificials, but if there is a good bite going on somewhere, live bait will prove more productive.
Post #: 1
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 9:07:20 PM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 1210
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: The 1st Trench
Status: offline 		I have yet to meet a fly fisherman who could beat me on the stream when I was fishing a minnow or single egg.  Many have tried.

_____________________________

All my heroes smell like fish.

(in reply to coolerfull1)
Post #: 2
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 9:09:29 PM   
jackq

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Altoona/Newville, PA.
Status: online 		Hands down....Live bait!!!

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 3
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 9:12:42 PM   
griffon

 

Posts: 973
Joined: 10/30/2003
Status: offline 		It depends on the conditions and how ravenous the fish are (there are exceptions).  Most of the time, I would rather use artificial for larger predators that feed with serious aggression when they attack.  Number 1, I can cover more water more quickly both through the horizontal and vertical water columns.  Number 2, fish will generally follow and attack a lure from a much greater distance and in shorter time than they will live bait.  Number 3, when I target big fish, I do not have to worry about small fish stealing my bait if I am using artificial.  Number 4, the action of an artificial lure in the right hands triggers strikes from the most neutral fish.  No. 4 cont.  I have seen neutral, heavily pressured fish totally ignore live bait presentations... let someone walk into the hole with an artificial and unique action that the fish have never seen, and the entire pool erupts with fish that are willing to impale themselves on the imposter.   

(in reply to coolerfull1)
Post #: 4
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 9:33:20 PM   
joebaker79

 

Posts: 1320
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: offline 		I can guarentee I will outfish any live bait with jigs for steelhead and stream trout.  But I even go to singles and skein sometimes for steelhead, but about 5-10% of the time.  In fact lures for steelhead will out fish live bait on the lake shore as well.  Fish are constantly chasing, with live bait, you are just waiting.  Also when steel first come in and the water is low and clear, the right color flatfish lure 1.5-1.75 inches will out fish anything.  Even when it gets warm and the fish stare at everything else. 

As for anything else I always have a bucket of shiners when bass fishing, but Ive had 50 fish days on plastic worms while the shiners were pulling very little.  Tube jigs have accounted for my biggest bass of 7 and 8 lbs, and Ive landed a few over 5 on jigs while fishing for crappies.  It can change but its good to have both, but dont discount lures.  The right one will make you buy 10 when you get home just like it. 

As for the rivers, besides catfishing, lures will outfish any live bait.  One crankbait, and I wont say which one, below the dams, will catch every species of fish and trophies of all of them, from cats to eyes, hybrids, whites, saugers, drums, etc. 

Its just a matter of using lures more and more and you will have plenty that you would RATHER use over live bait any day.  But there is always room for a minnow or even a crawler.  Ive gotten into flies for carp the last few years but crawlers will take the biggest ones in spring and fall, and during or after good rains. 

I would venture to say there is a live bait and a lure for almost every fish out there.  Most of the time the right lure used the right way will catch more fish because it will trigger strikes for so many reasons whether out of aggression or because it looks so damn real and matches the hatch. 

Just a few of my observations. 

(in reply to griffon)
Post #: 5
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 9:41:13 PM   
joebaker79

 

Posts: 1320
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: offline 		One other point....lures will always cover more water faster than any live bait.  And the speed at which you can whip out lures over and over will catch more fish than live bait with the right one.  Now there are many situations where live bait will outfish a lure, but more often its specific situations and lure/bait placement situations and not for any other factor.  Fishing the trees in the spring for bass with tubes, worms, jigs, or spinnerbaits may not catch more than shiners will when you can leave it nice tight spots and bass just cant take it.  Much of the time spawning bass wont chase to far or shoot out from the tree unless its real damn tempting....but a shiner laid down there waiting is just too much to take. 

All fishermen should get to a point where they could probably not use live bait ever again and be content with it....because then you'll find you have a few lures in your box that are worth there weight in gold compared to whats in the bucket or worm container. 

My biggest flatheads were 30-35 lbs on crankbaits below a dam but lets face it when its time to really go for them with the right equipment live gills and big chubs are always on the end of my hook. 

(in reply to joebaker79)
Post #: 6
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 10:04:15 PM   
jlh42581


Posts: 4197
Joined: 10/13/2004
From: Milesburg, Pa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

I have yet to meet a fly fisherman who could beat me on the stream when I was fishing a minnow or single egg.  Many have tried.


I want to try, where do i sign up... no stocked fish.


_____________________________

Jeremy
http://www.outdoorintegration.com

"The flies used for so discriminating a fish as the trout should, first of all, have the appearance of life."

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 7
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/24/2008 10:10:42 PM   
luvinbluegills


Posts: 1244
Joined: 7/16/2002
Status: offline 		It depends on the situation and what you mean by what works "better". That could mean more fish, bigger fish or something else. Generally speaking live bait catches more fish, but in freshwater artificials hold up well against live bait for catching big fish.

At times (for example, during a feeding blitz) lures outproduce bait because you can sling it har and don't have to rebait nearly as often. There is one lure I will choose before live bait every time and that's the Case Trout Worm. Rigged correctly it outproduces livebait for me in catching trout and panfish 98 times out of 100 under all conditions.

I enjoy using flies more than anything else and there have been many times when I've out-caught the baitfishers around me. An excellent baitfisher however will probably outfish me using flies in most circumstances.

The nicest thing about artificials is that if I suddenly have an appointment or two cancel in an afternoon, I can just get in the car and go to the water because everything I need is already in there. While there are times when I'd rather toss a live minnow, that has to wait for days when I can plan a few hours of fishing.

Bottom line is everything has its time depending on your needs.


_____________________________

Faith is only as good as it's object
Adventures with Fish

(in reply to joebaker79)
Post #: 8
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/25/2008 9:18:06 AM   
JEB


Posts: 775
Joined: 10/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

I have yet to meet a fly fisherman who could beat me on the stream when I was fishing a minnow or single egg.  Many have tried.

TRUE !!!!!  Its hard to outfish live bait.
I like to catch fish PERIOD !!!!  If I do it on the fly, live bait  or lures it doesn't matter to me. Everybody has the right to fish how they want, but the PURIST should not look down thier noses at us who chose to fish differently then them.I do not hate them ! I have spent many hours on the water with my fly rod catching a fish . And I also spent many hours chunking bait to the stockies and banging them on every other cast. Either
way is my choice. I fish for natives brookies with my spinning rod, catch carp with bread on my flyrod, it doesn't matter, just get out and enjoy yourself and have fun.  
Just my thoughts !!!!!!!

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 9
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/25/2008 9:28:33 AM   
Trout About


Posts: 663
Joined: 11/24/2001
From: West Newton, PA
Status: offline 		I use artificials over live bait for 2 reasons:

1. The bass tournamenmts I fish are artificial only.  Why spent the time patterning fish with bait that I can't use in the tournament.
2. I'm too lazy to stop and get a bucket of minnows.  Typically all I need is loaded in the boat all year long.  I just need to hook up and go.

The exception to that is when I go panfishing.  I do tip my jigs with wax worms.

(in reply to JEB)
Post #: 10
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/25/2008 10:39:30 PM   
Kokanee Killer


Posts: 172
Joined: 2/3/2008
From: Parts unknown
Status: offline 		i use both whatever it takes dont really have preference but a trout or salmon chasing down a pins minnow is pretty cool especially in shallow water in a stream when you see the wake commin at the lure.

_____________________________

Why don't they just make 10 louder?
But these amps go to 11!



(in reply to Trout About)
Post #: 11
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/28/2008 1:21:58 PM   
fisherofmen376

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		This debate has gone on for hundreds of years...
I thinkit comes down to preference.  There are times when live bait outifshes, and times when artificials outfish...
I dont' think fishing is an exact science, we will never be able to objectively measure what they actually like more.  There are so many factors that go into a fish biting-water temp, color, levels, flow, is there a hatch, shad available, weather patterns, etc etc etc.  And those are just the environmental factors...
my opinion, there is no right answer....

_____________________________

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19

(in reply to Kokanee Killer)
Post #: 12
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 8:49:37 AM   
Dream Catcher

 

Posts: 367
Joined: 9/17/2007
From: Chicora , PA
Status: offline 		I believe my lures tipped with live bait work best for me.

For instance:

1) King Salmon Lake Ontario < In tow behind a flasher , herring tipped on a floating fly  

2) Lake Erie Eyes Crawler harness w / crawler

3) Pelletheads jig tipped with maggots below float

4) Steelhead suckerspawn tipped w/ herring or anise oil below float

All methods produce well ???? Somewhere in between cover more water with the lure aspect of the presentation & make the fish hold on longer with the bait enticement for my slowing reflexes>LOL

(in reply to fisherofmen376)
Post #: 13
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 3:10:18 PM   
SmallieKiller


Posts: 3362
Status: online 		Live bait is for chumps...






All kidding aside though, fisher is right.  It comes down to confidence in what you are using and personal preference.  There are days where I'll swing flies and my dad will live bait it up and I outfish him 10-1.  Then there are days where I can't find a fish and he'll bag a limit.  So it'll always depend on ability, confidence, and conditions.



< Message edited by SmallieKiller -- 4/29/2008 3:13:47 PM >

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11 down, 5 to go... Nothing has been accomplished yet

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Post #: 14
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 4:24:40 PM   
Cold

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 3/27/2008
From: Latrobe, PA
Status: offline 		How much do you (anyone) feel that confidence affects the number of fish you land?  I've had my suspicions for a while now, but it seems a little far-fetched that your mindset while fishing can affect the fish themselves.  Still, when my dad and I fish together, we've both simply accepted that I fish artificials and he fishes bait, and we'll both be just fine.  In fact, there've been times where I'm having a slow but not skunked day with lures and he'll be rocking them with bait.  He'll actually set up my line himself, and do everything exactly the same and I'll cast into a spot mere feet from his bait and STILL get nothing with bait as he continues business as usual.  Then I'll go back to a lure and get bites again.  It's weird, but consistent...maybe thats why its weird...

(in reply to SmallieKiller)
Post #: 15
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 4:31:52 PM   
fisherofmen376

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Confidence in ANYTHING, from fishing to pimple popping, breeds success. 
Yum. 

_____________________________

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19

(in reply to Cold)
Post #: 16
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 5:09:31 PM   
Porktown


Posts: 2060
Joined: 9/4/2001
Status: online 		I have went places that I have studied seasonal movement trends, topo maps, local forage, past journal entries ect, which builds confidence, then get the old skunko. 

I've also pulled up on to a stretch of shoreline, with a telescopic rod, a pack of swimbaits, no waders, thinking it would be nice just to get a few casts in, and had one of my best days ever.  Seems that many of my best days, come when I am just trying to get out for a few hours.

Confidence is almost always there with me on my first 10 or so casts of a lure, first few drifts of live bait, passes trolling a certain spot.  If I don't get anything after that, I move or switch baits.  Some times this does the trick, other times, it gets me thinking that I am spending more time retying and moving than fishing.

As for bait vs. artificial, I tend to lean toward artificial.  
1)  I don't have a local bait shop 
2)  I enjoy casting and reeling, and feeling the strike (even with live bait, I usually keep it moving)
3)  I really enjoy catching fish on lures/flies that I made

That's all fine, but I'm at the point where I NEED a good day on the water...  So, I have 2 dozen crawlers and a few dozen grubs, kickin it down in my basement.  I think the crawlers are diggin their new home in my old shredded bills and coffee grinds though.  I'm hoping the caffeine gets those little things nice and wired for my walleye (or whatever bites..) trip this weekend.

I'm not the biggest fan of casting a bunch of rods and waiting.  Unless I am at the beach.  Knowing there is a slight chance that a 50lb red drum, cobia, striper, shark or anything that size gets me excited enough to sit and watch.  Although, I find myself watching other stuff on the beach than my rod.  Sunglasses on the beach, what a great concept!!!

(in reply to Cold)
Post #: 17
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 5:11:37 PM   
CATMAN610

 

Posts: 170
Status: offline 		I've heard that a rod can get you into trouble on the beach, when your not paying attention to the fishing.

(in reply to Porktown)
Post #: 18
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/29/2008 11:03:00 PM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1574
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		Hey, there's more than one way to skin a cat.  I prefer whichever works best for the time and place.

(in reply to CATMAN610)
Post #: 19
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 4/30/2008 12:45:23 AM   
MuskyMastr


Posts: 1210
Joined: 6/30/2005
From: The 1st Trench
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlh42581

quote:

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

I have yet to meet a fly fisherman who could beat me on the stream when I was fishing a minnow or single egg.  Many have tried.


I want to try, where do i sign up... no stocked fish.



Sounds fun, other than native brookies that would hit a turd on a hook up north, where are we going to find fish that aren't stocked?

_____________________________

All my heroes smell like fish.

(in reply to jlh42581)
Post #: 20
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 5/1/2008 6:44:49 AM   
jlh42581


Posts: 4197
Joined: 10/13/2004
From: Milesburg, Pa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlh42581

quote:

ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

I have yet to meet a fly fisherman who could beat me on the stream when I was fishing a minnow or single egg.  Many have tried.


I want to try, where do i sign up... no stocked fish.



Sounds fun, other than native brookies that would hit a turd on a hook up north, where are we going to find fish that aren't stocked?


Rivers

Centre County Streams


_____________________________

Jeremy
http://www.outdoorintegration.com

"The flies used for so discriminating a fish as the trout should, first of all, have the appearance of life."

(in reply to MuskyMastr)
Post #: 21
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 5/1/2008 9:19:33 AM   
Loomis


Posts: 496
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline 		haha i'd like to get in on this competition too.  I think that ss and just about any bead head nymph controlled by the right hands out-fishes bait 5:1....easy. 

_____________________________

http://loomisflyfisher.blogspot.com Updated 3/23/08

"I am by no means the most logical and educated person about fly fishing, but I will share with you what I know"

(in reply to jlh42581)
Post #: 22
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 5/1/2008 9:30:47 AM   
DJ2007


Posts: 35
Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline 		Artificial.  #1 reason is the amount of water covered.  I've outfished everyone i've ever come accross on a trout stream using live bait or powerbait.  With live bait your stuck, lures can be changed in size, color, and retrieve speed can be adjusted.  Besides that, I get bored fishing with live bait, just sitting there.  Theres nothing like fooling a big trout on an home-make fly, or roostertail.  It's more of a challange to trick a fish into thinking something is dinner, rather than feeding it dinner!

It also depends on the situation.  If you going after big cats, live bait, or cut bait is a must.  the bigger the better. 

(in reply to Loomis)
Post #: 23
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 5/1/2008 9:36:02 AM   
DJ2007


Posts: 35
Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline 		Those native brookies are more ravenous than piranha!  Artificials would definatly win since you would take up too much time putting a new worm on every fish.  I once caught 60 of them in 3 hours one evening  in Forest county on a fly rod.   There easy, but there colorful!

(in reply to DJ2007)
Post #: 24
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 5/1/2008 10:04:16 AM   
mariosteam0506

 

Posts: 47
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline 		I get what you are saying; but I think that bass are very easy to catch with fake bait. I would have to say that the conditions are really a factor. If i had to choose I would would stick with artificials for bass and walleyes but anything else is without a doubt live bait.

_____________________________

The fishing and hunting is pretty good not so bad!!!

(in reply to DJ2007)
Post #: 25
RE: Artificials vs live bait - 5/1/2008 10:33:28 AM   
doubletaper


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline 		at the oil creek outing, just upstream from petrolium center is open to all types of fishing. there is a pull off that i've caught many a trout. i would say if the artificial casters want to face off against the bait throwers this would be a good challenge.
i'm in. ~dt

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent

(in reply to mariosteam0506)
Post #: 26
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