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A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 8:03:22 AM   
Liverache

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 8/16/2006
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A catholic priest in SC has told his parish that if they voted for Obama they should not receive communion because of his abortion views. I was brought up as a catholic and understand their stance on this issue but come on this isnt the only reason people voted for him,no wonder I dont go anymore
Post #: 1
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 8:11:25 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2950
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		liv, i had heard that and think it is a crock.  i am a practicing Christian and i don't agree with abortions (most cases) but i have yet to see any politician, especially any president, attempt to overthrow roe vs. wade.  

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 2
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 9:00:32 AM   
Bughawk


Posts: 6104
Status: online 		As a Christian who believes in a pro-life agenda, I find it difficult to ban all abortions irregardless of the situation, especially one where the life to the mother is at risk.  If I had the opportunity to write what I would believe to be the perfect law, it would start with a statement that all abortions are a tragedy, but if having an abortion diverts an even greater tragedy, than the abortion should be permitted and the choice should be up to the woman, the father, the doctor and their clergy.  Basically, abortions in situations where there is no good option is something that requires a great deal of thought and prayer and should not be taken lightly, but I believe there should be a choice allowed.

What I believe is absolutely wrong is using abortion as a form of birth control.  We need to do a much better job helping people realize that there is a great responsibility that comes with having sexual activity.  Unless a couple is ready to do the mommy and daddy thing, they should not be doing the wild thing, PERIOD. 

As for excommunicating people because of their political beliefs I find to be extreme.  I wonder if this priest excommunicates people for other sins, or just his one?  We all approach the altar as sinners, but it is God's grace that allows us to receive the sacrament in a way it feeds our soul.

_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

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RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 9:01:37 AM   
joebaker79

 

Posts: 1578
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: offline 		I can think of a few "probing" issues with the Catholic church that concern me more. 

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 4
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 9:13:44 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2950
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		joe, your bad and are going to get struck by lightning.  shame all that happened, but it just proves that priest should be allowed to marry.

As for excommunicating people because of their political beliefs I find to be extreme.  I wonder if this priest excommunicates people for other sins, or just his one?  We all approach the altar as sinners, but it is God's grace that allows us to receive the sacrament in a way it feeds our soul.


excellent, bug.  i serve a loving and forgiving God.  some man is not going to tell me that i am not worthy because of how i vote.  i vote with the hopes of making this a better and more peaceful world, and to me, that is what Christ told us to do. 

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 5
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 9:45:05 AM   
Liverache

 

Posts: 195
Joined: 8/16/2006
Status: offline 		We had a local-state politician in erie a few years ago who was told by his local bishop that he was persona non grata in his local parish because he ran his election as a pro choice. I think a person can be pro choice and still have his own convictions, I just feel if it is right for someone else,, so be it. I dont think I could counsil my kids into having one but in the end IT IS UP TO THEM

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 6
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 10:07:14 AM   
joebaker79

 

Posts: 1578
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: offline 		I can't get it through my head some of the views of the Catholic church.  I understand opposing abortion, but birth control?  That and the whole science is bs thing.....Yep, JC was walking with dinosaurs because the earth is only 6000 years old.   And the jury is still out on that whole "evolution" insanity.....  So many who fear the Muslim religion....have failed to completely examine their own. 

Rap I'm not sure the Priest-Boy love issue proves they should be allowed to marry.  It's one thing to be a Priest filled with sexual frustration.  If that's the case, go after some needy broads who have a thing for clergymen.  There is plenty out there.  Going after little boys is entirely another issue.  That just proves the ones who did were sick f's who were into that.  If there was rampant affairs with consenting women or for that matter men I don't think many would have an issue with it.  Consenting and adult would be the two key words.  Not unwilling and child.

Enough of that, don't want to take this thread into a religion debate.  I think everyone is probably a little right, a little wrong.  Whatever takes us through life in a decent manner can't be wrong.  Some choose to have extreme and dangerous interpretations of any religion.

As for political views, everyone needs to be strong enough to go against what anyone is telling them if that is what they truly believe. 


(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 7
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 10:22:59 AM   
bulldog1


Posts: 372
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exits constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."

The above is quoted from the letter he passed out to the congregation. While I agree this seems a little extreme, you kind of have to give the guy credit for sticking his neck out that far for the church's beliefs. I read the story and it said nothing about excommunication, just suggested people exclude themselves from communion until they did pennance. Showing great concern for parisioner's souls or just another political hack, guess God can sort that one out. Maybe the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church will be questioned now.

"In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights."

Also quoted from the article, so I would assume we can expect more of this in the future. Or will they leave this guy out there with his tounge stuck to the flag pole. Frankly, I'm more than a little surprised with the Church taking this tact. And no I'm not Catholic.

(in reply to joebaker79)
Post #: 8
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 10:23:51 AM   
LDD

 

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/20/2004
Status: offline 		Boy oh boy, I just read the MSNBC piece about that priest.  What would Pope J.P. say about that??  I feel bad for the parishoners that love their faith and that have to deal with a leader like that.

(in reply to joebaker79)
Post #: 9
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 10:54:13 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2950
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		the way i look at it, abortion is killing, just my belief.  so is war.  but i think we have the right to defend ourselves, so while war is killing, maybe it is justified.  now we bring up the iraq war where well over 100,000 innocent civilians have died.  this war is not justifiable and there was no reason for these people to have died.  so if i or anyone else voted for bush the second time, are we condoning killing, be it abortion or a sensless war?  would that priest withold communion?  double standard?  btw, i am a catholic. 

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to LDD)
Post #: 10
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 11:02:05 AM   
eyesandgillz


Posts: 730
Joined: 6/18/2003
Status: offline 		If that is truely the text in the letter then it closely follows the teachings of the church and I support the priest.  What I find hypocritcal is that a majority of bishops/priests most likely supported Obama before the election and now that he is in office, start this up.  Frankly, this is most likely the official position of the church and probably would have been supported by J.P.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 11
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 11:31:32 AM   
LDD

 

Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/20/2004
Status: offline 		I too am a Catholic and I don't feel that Pope J.P. was ever a supporter of "casting stones" at sinners, as this priest quite clearly is doing from the pulpit.  I also don't believe that abortion is a political issue, it is a moral one.  The legality of a moral choice such as this should not be legislated either way for the political benefit of people who have nothing to do with the actual circumstances surrounding an abortion.  Once you bring political persuasion into a moral argument it loses all merit IMO. 

I cannot defend the belief that casting a vote is a sin, which is what this priest proposes.  If that's the case, which is worse, voting for someone who supports "pro-choice" or voting for someone who has "lived in sin", as John McCain has for the last twenty odd years?  By the definition of the church, McCain has committed adultry, also a mortal sin. He is not Catholic, was divorced, did not get an annulment...therefore, a vote cast for McCain would also blemish the voter who voted for him, making that voter ineligible for Communion.  That's the logic I don't buy. 

This priest is trying to turn sour grapes into communion.

(in reply to eyesandgillz)
Post #: 12
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 12:26:23 PM   
D.A.M.


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline 		joebaker79
Hey joe, i would like to talk with you. (PM)
my email is available if you ok to it.

(in reply to joebaker79)
Post #: 13
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 12:56:13 PM   
joebaker79

 

Posts: 1578
Joined: 11/13/2003
Status: offline 		D.A.M,

About what?

(in reply to D.A.M.)
Post #: 14
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 1:11:35 PM   
D.A.M.


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline 		Fishing in general


(in reply to joebaker79)
Post #: 15
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 1:32:58 PM   
Bughawk


Posts: 6104
Status: online 		"...abortion is a political issue, it is a moral one."  Good point LDD.  Just because something is legal does not make it moral.  It is up to the individual to make the decision as to how they are going to live their life.

_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

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Post #: 16
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 2:49:52 PM   
bulldog1


Posts: 372
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		As long as you wear your seatbelt, don't wear your helmet, pay tax on your alcohol and tobacco and don't use them in public, lol.

I'm not really "prochoice" or "prolife", never thought it was my place to tell a woman what she can and can't do, and my wife has spent the last 20+ years reinforcing that idea!

You can't legislate morality and it's time we stop trying. Personal responsibility has almost become a thing of the past, people need to be held accountable for their own actions.

(in reply to Bughawk)
Post #: 17
RE: A little over the top? - 11/14/2008 11:52:51 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2950
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		Personal responsibility has almost become a thing of the past, people need to be held accountable for their own actions.

real good reply, bull.  and as people are to be held accountable, i think we should spend less time judging unless the person directly affects our well being.  God will judge.  i have enough baggage that i don't have time to worry about someone else.

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to bulldog1)
Post #: 18
RE: A little over the top? - 11/15/2008 9:19:52 AM   
Mr.Slickfish


Posts: 295
Joined: 3/11/2008
From: The greatest place on earth....Erie
Status: online 		There is separation of church and state for a reason. It should be practiced from both ends.

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You can always tell a fisherman...
But you can't tell him much

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 19
RE: A little over the top? - 11/15/2008 12:15:32 PM   
bigfoot


Posts: 260
Status: offline 		Well Bug, as usual you seem to have hit the nail right on the head, at least as far as I am concerned. I am pro life, but don't believe in trying to foist my view on others. I just wish that abortion wasn't used as a form of birth control. I believe that life starts at conception and I often wonder what happens to all of those little babies who never really got a chance to live, and were do their souls go? Who can speak for those who cannot yet speak for themselves? Don't you perhaps think they would say please let me live, all I want is a chance in life. I believe it is a womans right to choose. I just wish more would pick life over death. Hope I don't ruffle anybody's feathers, or offend anyone over this post. Don't mean to. As a personal note, my wife sufferd two miscarriages, and I cried both times. I often wondered what kind of person those two unborn would have turned into.

(in reply to Bughawk)
Post #: 20
RE: A little over the top? - 11/15/2008 12:21:10 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2950
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		 I just wish that abortion wasn't used as a form of birth control.

I often wondered what kind of person those two unborn would have turned into.

I believe that life starts at conception

bigfoot, you too have hit the nail on the head.  real sad some of the choices we, at the top of the food chain, make. 

_____________________________

silence means consent.....

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to bigfoot)
Post #: 21
RE: A little over the top? - 11/15/2008 1:01:42 PM   
bulldog1


Posts: 372
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		This abortion debate will still be going on long after most of us have moved on to greener pastures, but don't fool yourself into thinking that they didn't happen when it was illegal. The more fortunate women would get D&C's and the less fortunate would suffer "back alley doctors" with crude methods that caused great harm and even death. It is sad that it has become a form of birth control. Our society has bred a generation of "life's nothing but a party" people, I just hope that they grow up at some point. Just take a half hour and force yourself to watch MTV. I used to think that TV and movies had nothing to do with societal changes, I've since changed that opinion.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 22
RE: A little over the top? - 11/15/2008 2:36:06 PM   
leadmen

 

Posts: 503
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		pro choice or pro life what i say will not change the minds of thousands ,what i hope i never have to say is to one person i know that will change that life forever and ill see that change ,friend /fam /daughter /wife
i dont want to think of that and wish it on no one !!!!
and i also say hay nuns give none ,that is why they looke googlie at boys and need to be hung high if they act i have the rope ill give it up if needed

(in reply to bulldog1)
Post #: 23
RE: A little over the top? - 11/16/2008 5:41:00 PM   
flyfishermanPA


Posts: 649
Status: offline 		.

< Message edited by flyfishermanPA -- 11/16/2008 5:44:38 PM >

(in reply to leadmen)
Post #: 24
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